[Closed] How's the UK at the moment?

Any answer you get this week will be out of date in a couple of weeks time after the spending review is announced.

I think we are selling off all the nations pensioners, they are too expensive, and apparently can replace coal at power stations. I am sure I read something like that on the front cover of the Dail Mail.

mobile phones give you cancer apparently

i'm in the science research industry and we have enjoyed a rather prosperous last two years, even had a good rise a few months back, But saying that you can see the effects of the recession with the companies we use for sub contract work, they are generally engineering companies and there is not much work around,

on the street confidence is knocked for sure, but up at the mall you would hardly notice it,

lots of houses for sale on the street i live on, and the people across the road keep having the bailiffs around (not being nosey, they are friends and told us? ) as a guide their house is worth around 3-400K and he is self employed as a plumber

You won't notice anything different...except every high street has a gap where Woolsworths used to be.

and there is more TK Max than there used to be

What's TK Max?

it's a cheap shop that seems to get it's stock from closing down/warehouse clearances.

some of it's good, some of it is tat.

The main effect of the economic downturn is that everyone i know has so much work we don't know what to do with it...

TK Maxx is the UK variant of an American chain called TJ Maxx which sells a range of end of line branded goods at knock-down prices.

Anything from golf clubs to jeans, via ski jackets and underwear.

The shops typically resemble the scene 30 seconds after a UN aid drop in a war ravaged third world country. Aisles littered with detritus as the assembled public fight over the last pair of charcoal grey bootcut cords in 32/32 etc etc.

That said, there are some good bargains to be had if you're willing to look.

did some one say charcoal grey bootcuts? where??! which store?!!?? NOW!!!

#
MrNutt - Member

did some one say charcoal grey bootcuts? where??! which store?!!?? NOW!!!
Posted 5 minutes ago # Report-Post

Invariably, it turns out to be just a wild rumour. Too late, they realise they're competing over some lime green leisure slacks with 'Le Coq Sportif' emblazoned down the side in pink stitching.

The UK is making cut backs in areas it's never had to for generations and many of them it should have years ago. Whether there being done in the right way is debatable but I know my pension, pay and retirement plans are being affected working in the public sector.

Industries have/are suffering but that seems to be a 20 year cycle.

Others seem to think that houses for sale means all hope is lost, there's about 4 or 5 sold in my small street this last year. I see that as a good thing not many sold before that and prices up here have hardly changed.

It'll will bother you as much as you let it or if your one of the many unfortunate ones who have lost their job.

it will be brilliant when you get here. Half a million lazy public sectors workers [ firemen , police, social workers - spongers I call them] will have been sacked and had to enter [s]benefits [/s] the real world of private industry as a huge wave of private enterprise sweeps the nation powering a phenmomenal economic recovery. The elated people, unshackled by big government, will all be busy being excellent to each other via Big Society. it will be ace bet you cant wait.
Dave has said and I believe.
You cant smoke in pubs you will notice that change.

It's great over here !....... we're all "in it together" ......... it's just like during the blitz !

Just to give you an example of how we are all pulling in together to help each other, we are slashing £billions off welfare so that top bankers can [i]still[/i] get the £7billion in [i]bonuses[/i] they have come to expect.

It's that kind of community spirit where we all help each other during hard times which makes Britain so special.

Bugger it and move to Oz. Seems to have done me no harm, and the trails are dusty here too 🙂

shit hole ........

Bugger it and move to Oz.

On the first point, I'd rather not! 😯
The second, I really could move anywhere and have thought about Argentina as a base many times. What's happening in Oz? What work is available? Immigration problems?

move to oz

They are tightening up, but unless you arrive on a boat you may not have too many problems 😉

Depending on what you do (and how old you are), the quickest way in is getting a new employer to sponsor your application i.e. say that they need you as they can't fill the post locally. That's the way I got in. The points system still operates though, just takes a lot longer, and the jobs on it change, often.

You wouldn't get any sort of social security for 2 years though, so unless you do have a job, they'd want evidence of buried treasure or some other way of supporting yourself.

If you're in mining, nursing, and maybe teaching, you're on to a winner. If not, the current list should be on the aussie high commission website.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/a-portrait-of-britain-10-facts-10-key-issues-on-101010-2102578.html

In a nutshell; the people who look after your money are doing ok...

Dont move to Oz.

How do you get a job at Goldman Sachs? Or be a council chief exec?

UK is last place I'd choose, given choice. I'm looking forward to getting out of the UK to Brazil in Jan. Argentina will probably be a good choice also as they're sure to benefit from the growth in Brazil. My plan is to move to Buenos Aires after the Rio games. But my plans tend to go a bit wonky.

Dont move to Oz.

Why not?

The mountain biking isnt particularly good and it's a bit dull once you've been there a few months.

Pfft! It's not going to be a permanent move to the UK, do you think I'm crazy??? I just have to spend a few months there to tie up some loose ends and was wondering what the work situation and general atmosphere was like.
If I move from Spain it would probably be to Argentina and not to Oz, too old now!

I'm also a bit sick of the recession here and fancy a change of scene, but if it's as bad in UK, frying pan/fire springs to mind... 😆

Argentina will probably be a good choice also as they're sure to benefit from the growth in Brazil

😕 The Argentine economy is doing rather better than the Brazilian economy (probably because they are pursuing left-wing policies with even more enthusiasm than Brazil) The Brazilian economy is expected to grow by about 6% this year. The Argentine economy is predicted to grow by 8.5%

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/20/argentina-poll-kirchner-return-cristina

Although I can understand your confusion. In 2002 Argentina was responsible for the largest sovereign debt default in history - it was in a worst situation than Greece is in today. However, ever since then, the Argentine economy has made a staggering recovery. Which has led amongst other things, to massive growth and a dramatic fall in unemployment and poverty. And it has now long paid off it's debt.

How did it do it ? Well by doing the complete opposite to what Britain and Greece are doing today, ie, by dramatically abandoning the free-market policies which got it in the mess in the first place. And adopting the left-wing solution of increase taxation and [b][i]massive[/i][/b] government intervention.

No great surprise really, Keynesian economics has always tended to work. Unlike monetarist policies which have never worked, expect for a short period of time and only for a very privileged few.

Of course you are quite right about the might of the Brazilian economy though - the population of Brazil is after all, about six times the size of Argentina. And I have no doubt that in a few decades time Brazil will be one of the world's super powers. Although Argentina itself has huge potential due to its huge natural resources - it was after the 4th wealthiest country in the world a hundred years ago.

But the whole region is doing rather well, including desperately poor countries such as Bolivia - a country which elected an uneducated indigenous peasant as its leader. This is down to basically two things, firstly, the region has finally freed itself from the shackles of US hegemony. And secondly, the region is pursuing left-wing policies in complete defiance of TINA (There Is No Alternative)

What is happening in Latin America is the best kept political secret in the Northern Hemisphere.

And the political situation in Brazil is [b][i]really[/i][/b] rather healthy. In last Sunday's presidential election [u]every single candidate[/u] was left-wing......the conservatives didn't even bother fielding a candidate, so discredited are right-wing policies. The Green candidate received 19% of the vote - the largest amount of votes for any Green candidate in history anywhere in the world. Considering just how important Brazil is to the world's ecology, there might still be hope for mankind - specially when poor people in poor countries feel the environment is that important.

And it now looks like after the next round, the new President of Brazil will be a former guerrilla fighter from the Workers Party.

Yep, "Go South Young Man" .....that's were its all happening 8)

The mountain biking isnt particularly good and it's a bit dull once you've been there a few months.

Really? In your own opinion, of course... Compared to what I've ridden in the UK, my local bit of Oz sems pretty good.

Not sure what you mean by dull, but real life in most countries is hardly exciting for the most part. (Unless you live in Baghdad or similar, in which case I suspect adrenaline is high on a daily basis)

Possibly the other problem with Oz is that when you talk, there is no one around to hear you. 😉

Thanks Ernie, there really was no need for you to have gone to so much trouble, interesting as it was.
What time is the party potical broadcast on behalf of the Flasheart Party?

Possibly the other problem with Oz is that when you talk, there is no one around to hear you.

Which given some of the responses you get on some niche-orientated bike related internet fora is a blessing in disguise 😆

It certainly means you can get a few hours work done without too much distraction before the rest of the world wakes up and starts arguing again...

😆

Whereabouts are you?

How's the UK at the moment?

Still the most beautiful country in the world. 🙂

I've established that there is a perception that the grass is always greener. In my experience where you live is what you make it, it's not necessarily the place. I've met miserable people in beautiful places.

But Oz ?! FFS it's full of Australians for a start!!

But don't you dig it up and send it to other places?? 😉

i like to remind myself just how lovely my back yard is:
[img] [/img]

In full HDR technicolour too 😯

it's full of Australians for a start!!

It's practically empty. Anyway they're horrible losers, so give them until just after xmas and they'll be as quiet as mice for a couple of years...

I'm in Adelaide BTW...

What's happening in Oz?

Everyone's a racist, lazy, lager swilling moron and there's no water and no mountains (mostly). Or a whinging Pom going on and on about how shit Britain is and how wonderful everything is in the Promised land whilst all the locals back away smiling and nodding. And there are giant frogs everywhere.

Everyone's a racist, lazy, lager swilling moron and there's no water and no mountains

Sounds about right.

ernie_lynch
In 2002 Argentina was responsible for the largest sovereign debt default in history......[snip].... And it has now long paid off it's debt.

Do you actually know what 'default' means?

ernie_lynch
How did it do it ? Well by doing the complete opposite to what Britain and Greece are doing today, ie, by dramatically abandoning the free-market policies which got it in the mess in the first place. And adopting the left-wing solution of increase taxation and massive government intervention.

No great surprise really, Keynesian economics has always tended to work. Unlike monetarist policies which have never worked, expect for a short period of time and only for a very privileged few.

Yeah, because the 'Keynesian' policies implemented by Clueless Clown as chancellor in the years between 1997 and 2008 worked really well.

In truth, Brown never actually implemented Keynesian economics, the central theme of Keynes being 'save in the boom so you can spend in the bust'. But Brown believed he had abolished busts so sprayed money around and maxed out the credit cards during the boom and when the bust arrived (as it surely must as a central feature of keynesian economics) the cupboard was bare. And so here we are, painted into a corner.

Perhaps you think we should default like Argentina?

check again after the 20th of october when the spending review is out and you can work out how long it will take britian to recover from another round of crippling tory cuts 🙂

ernie, i said argentina, as mentioned by don simon, would benefit from the strong economy in Brazil - growth in brazil is at close to 9%. Did I say argentina was a poverty stricken slum? no. did i say it was a worse place than brazil? no. i simply pointed out that it will benefit from the growth in brazil, which is moving more people out of poverty, has a greater population, greater natural resources and so on

poor people in poor countries

on what basis do you think Brazil is a 'poor country'?

You do realise all this talk of mega cuts is just to prepare us - they won't make some of them when the time comes, in the hope it will make people think they're being generous.

Either that or they are just airing the ideas to get other people to do their thinking and criticising for them. Which is actually a very good idea.

on what basis do you think Brazil is a 'poor country'?

Thousands of homeless orphans on the streets?

Or 1/3 the GDP per capita of the UK, and 1/4 that of the USA?

Biscuit powered

The financial crisis of 2007 to the present is a crisis triggered by a liquidity shortfall in the United States banking system......The collapse of the housing bubble, which peaked in the U.S. in 2006, caused the values of securities tied to real estate pricing to plummet thereafter, damaging financial institutions globally.[7]

because the 'Keynesian' policies implemented by Clueless Clown as chancellor in the years between 1997 and 2008 worked really well.

Saying it is all Browns fault is simplistic in the extreme no economy/industry was left unscathed by what happened.

iDave - Member

ernie.........Did I say argentina was a poverty stricken slum? no. did i say it was a worse place than brazil? no.

😕 And did I say you had said those things ? No.

I copied and pasted [u]exactly[/u] what you had posted, ie : [i]"Argentina will probably be a good choice also as they're sure to benefit from the growth in Brazil"[/i]

I simply pointed out that Argentine economy is actually doing rather better than the Brazilian economy at the moment, ie it has a higher growth rate .......... a perfectly valid comment.

.

And yes Biscuit Powered, I do know what 'default' means. I also know that Argentina repaid it's debt to the IMF several years ago :

[url= http://www.orange.mu/kinews/afp/business/108627/imf-confirms-argentina-s-repaid-debt.html ]IMF confirms Argentina's repaid debt[/url]

[url= http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F07E3D91130F937A35752C0A9609C8B63 ]Argentina : Foreign Debt Paid Off[/url]

Should we default like Argentina ? Well given the same circumstances, yes.

And Argentina has warned Greece not to make the same mistakes as they made when they tried to comply with the requirements of the IMF.

[url= http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/322362,argentine-president-warns-greece-against-austerity-measures.html ]Argentine president warns Greece against austerity measures[/url]

As far as your little dig at Keynesian economic policies is concerned, yes they do, and have, worked......well certainly better than monetarist/free market policies have. Which why Tory governments adopted Keynesian economic policies during the period which was famously described as "you've never had it so good". And why the conservative Republican US President Richard Nixon, notably declared "I am now a Keynesian in economics".

There is not a shred of evidence however, that monetarist/free-market economic policies bring the prosperity and benefit to ordinary people which some right-wingers claim it does.

The monetarist/free-market experiment was first implemented in Latin America, which was handy for the Yanks as the whole region was firmly in the grip of brutal military dictatorships which were loyal and indebted to Washington......any opposition was therefore not a "problem". As a result it was monetarism in its purest unhindered form.

The consequences for the people of Latin America was absolutely disastrous and it led to untold misery and suffering. As a result right across the region, governments are now pursuing Keynesian/social-democratic policies. Obviously not something they would be doing had the little experiment been a success.

Weird thing this recession.

At work we have more work than ever, on target for best ever year and we can't recruit fast enough due to lack of skilled people in the market place.

The local car dealer won't even bother to return my call regarding buying a VRS as demand is so strong they don't need to bother.

I can't get anyone to chop down a tree for months as they're all too busy and the street is full of skips and neighbours having extensions / loft conversions built.

We've never had it so good (in Cambridge that is).

"The Economy of Brazil is the world's eighth largest economy by nominal GDP and ninth largest by purchasing power parity. It's economy is the largest among all South American nations and the second largest in the western hemisphere."

Poor Brazil eh?

Yeah but how much of that wealth gets to the majority of people in Brazil?

As for the original question; Britain's a lot better off than most places on Earth, I'd say. Gonna get relatively a bit shitter now this useless bunch of self-serving shysters are in government, but overall, I'm glad I live in Britain, rather than a lot of other places.

How's the UK at the momeny? Well that probably depends on where you are. In much of the south east, where economy is driven to a large extent by things like The City, high tech business and tourism, things are fairly good. In places like the North East and South Wales with a large proportion of the work coming via the state and high levels of benefits/unemployment the tough times are here/coming.

Although talking to friends and customers in Greece/Ireland/Spain we are way better off in the UK.

Going to Germany you wouldn't think "recession" in any way.

Although talk to friends and customers in Greece/Ireland/Spain we are way better off.

Currently in Spain 😥 .

What business are you in tonyg2003?

iDave - you asked in "what basis do you think Brazil is a 'poor country'?".

I consider Brazil is poor in terms of standard of living. In the same way I consider the Chinese to be poor despite the fact their country has the second largest economy in the world.

The majority of the 19% who voted for the Green Party candidate in Brazil's presidential election, would not have been wealthy by our standards.

If you prefer, I could have said "poor people in a third world country" rather than "poor people in a poor country".

But I reckon you should have been able figure all that out for yourself iDave ......I think most other people probably did.

Hi Don Simon

I work in biotech, genetic testing and IVF.

Greece and Ireland seems particularly to be in a bad way, Spain slightly less so.

In Brazil and Argentina we are doing plenty of business but India and China are the way forward!

Brazil isn't a third world country though is it?

25 million have moved out of poverty in the last 10 years

given that I work in financial services in Sao Paulo and Rio, I have some idea of the current situation

Do you own a passport or just an internet connection ernie?

Is the term 'third world' synonymous with 'poor'? I don't think so. Third world surely is a geographical term?

If you prefer the term 'developing country' then surely Brazil is still developing towards the living standards of 'the West'..? Is it?

Yeah I have a passport and have been to Sao Paulo .......although only to change planes.

I consider Brazil to be a third world country, as I do also Argentina. And yes, I've been to Argentina. I even lived there actually.

EDIT : RE : [i]"given that I work in financial services in Sao Paulo and Rio, I have some idea of the current situation"[/i]

But you didn't know that the Argentine economy is preforming better than the Brazilian economy ?

I can't get anyone to chop down a tree for months as they're all too busy

But you didn't know that the Argentine economy is preforming better than the Brazilian economy ?

I didn't know how wrong you were comrade. And I stated that the Argentinian economy would benefit from the strength of the Brazilian economy. Don't you think it would?

Argentina
GDP $310.1 billion
GDP growth 0.9%
GDP per capita $7,725

Brazil
GDP $1.574 trillion
GDP growth 8.8%
GDP per capita $8,220

And as for thinking they're 'third world' you really have sat on a lot of planes haven't you? Have you been to an actual developing as opposed to emerging economy? Quite a difference. Can't remember the helicopter count being so high in Ulaan Baatar compared with Sao Paulo...

I didn't know how wrong you were comrade.

That's because [u]your[/u] Wikipedia figures are wrong iDave.

Those figures refer to Argentine growth during the height of the global recession in 2009, and the (early) predicted growth for the Brazilian economy [u]this[/u] year.

Yes the Argentine economy only grew by 0.9% last year. But the Brazil economy did even worst..........it didn't grow at all - it shrunk by 0.2%

[url= http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90778/90858/90864/6916754.html ]Brazil's GDP contracts 0.2 % in 2009[/url]

I have already provided you with a link which shows that the Argentine economy will grow by 8.5% this year. Here it is again :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/20/argentina-poll-kirchner-return-cristina

Quote :

[i]"After stalling last year, economic growth is predicted to grow by 8.5% this year."[/i]

This compares with 7.53% growth in the Brazilian economy :

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-09-27/brazilian-economists-predict-faster-growth-inflation-in-2010.html

Quote :

[i]"The economy will expand 7.53 percent in 2010, up from a week-earlier forecast of 7.47 percent, according to the median forecast in a Sept. 24 [u]central bank survey of about 100 economists[/u] published today. That would be the fastest growth since 1985, when the economy expanded 7.85 percent."[/i]

The Argentine economy grew by 9% every year between 2003 and 2007 and 7% in 2008. Last year because of the global recession it only grew by 0.9%, but this year it is back approaching 9%.

I repeat my original claim : [i]The Argentine economy is doing rather better than the Brazilian economy[/i]

Sure, Argentina benefits from a healthy Brazilian economy - she does after all, for example, need export markets. But the reason the Argentine economy has gone from the total disastrous financial crises of 2002 to become the fastest growing economy in Latin America, has nothing at all to do with Brazil.

It is as a direct result of the [u]Argentine government's[/u] economic policies. If those policies were abandoned then there little doubt that the Argentine economy would begin to splutter again.........whatever Brazil does.

[url= http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-weisbrot/argentina-elects-cristina_b_70730.html ]Argentina the fastest-growing economy in the Western Hemisphere[/url]

Note : [i]"Contrary to a common belief, Argentina's expansion was not based on exports or high commodity prices: only about 13 percent of the growth during the whole expansion was due to exports."[/i]

.

As far as me thinking they are 'third world', molgrips has already pointed out that it is often seen as a geographical term :

[img] [/img]

Although it does have striking similarities with GDP distribution :

[img] [/img]

But hey idave, if you are really unhappy with my comment about 'poor people in a third world country voting Green', then I will gladly withdraw it ........just to make you happy like 8)

And btw iDave, that passport you were asking me about ...... perhaps I should have mentioned - it would have been Argentine, had my mother not left Argentina when she was 8 months pregnant with me. In fact, most of the people who are related to me in this world have Argentine passports/live in Argentina 🙂