[Closed] How much is my son worth??

I've told him to call their bluff & say 'Promo/pay rise or I'm off'

Unless he's actually prepared to walk, I wouldn't advise this approachz

Bluff strongly after getting another job he is prepared to leave for, with a higher salary that becomes the new target salary?

First step is writing a CV.

A company will always pay as little as they can get away with to retain staff. Sometimes not even that if they view staff as disposable.

Best way of getting a significant pay rise is to switch employers. With the best will in the world he's never going to turn up one morning to be told he's been given another ten grand.

If he can hack it, he can stick to his job description and when a manager needs some help,

"Sorry, that's above my pay level."

[i]If he can hack it, he can stick to his job description and when a manager needs some help,

"Sorry, that's above my pay level."[/i]

Don't think we'd thought of that one Neil!

Cougar - Moderator
A company will always pay as little as they can get away with to retain staff.

Untrue, I pay people more because I want to attract the best. Monkeys and peanuts.

OP no threats that's crazy. Step 1 is have the conversation where you indicate you are not happy. Step 2 look for another job. Step 3 wait before other job is confirmed before making any decisions. In the meantime a good company will have responded. If not, step 4 resign

Untrue, I pay people more because I want to attract the best. Monkeys and peanuts.

You'll still pay the minimum you can get away with to "attract the best" and keep them though. Poor business sense not to.

It's 'Work to Rule' as in, only work to cover the basic requirements of his contract and nothing more.

Can still be seen as a malicious act and lead to a stand off, still a good idea to look for something else too.

Well what did he enjoy at school and what would he like to work in?

Engineering apprentice with a view to BIM if he enjoys telling his seniors what do.

but he's got no 'official qualifications'

Jim, big national aerial company who i supply, is looking for installers all over the country. they do the training up too.
email me if you want me to get him some details.

[i]Well what did he enjoy at school and what would he like to work in?[/i]

riding his bike (trialsy stuff) & chasing girls while at school & would probably really enjoy being a beer taster right now.
But he knows otherwise. Good, sensible lad with excellent communication skills, like his Dad 😉

Edit

Just read that Tony, I'll speak to him. Thanks mate.

[i]No qualifications is a surefire route to minimum wage......[/i]

Wrong, I know lots of people with 'No qualifications' who are on £28972,00

Wrong, I know lots of people with 'No qualifications' who are on £28972,00

Night school/college (now is an eccellent time as colleges are enrolling right now!) or get a trade/profession while he's young, don't threaten to leave unless he has something lined up to go into, definitely dont call their bluff and definitely dont use the "outside my job role/pay grade" tripe, it'll just make life awkward for him and his managers for the short time he still has a job. Up north the opportunities are limited and there are lots of people with good qualifications/skills/are willing to work for nothing who would love his job.
College will get him a qulificatiln and suuport him with cv writing and job application/interview skills.

You'll still pay the minimum you can get away with to "attract the best" and keep them though. Poor business sense not to.

Not at all. Pay people well. Minimise non-comp costs. Great business.

Naa, I've told him NOT to join the prison service, (now starting on 19K & going up to 22K, which is a bloody insult to peoples intelligence & life/interpersonal skills)

ask for a wage rise
Ask for a job as a picker if he is turned down
Its only £500 he would lose.

IT will test how much they care

Will it ever get better? IF so is it just a tough it out time?

Apply for other jobs, take their offer in as negotiation or accept their offer.

in the meantime, get work to pay for accredited courses....

Minimise non-comp costs.

What's that, sorry?

Obviously worth more than that OP. Question is will they pay it...! i
IME Testing team members in the Midlands would comfortably expect to be paid twice that - with a team leader starting on c£30k minimum. Actual salary obviously depends on responsibilities - who creates test cases, test plan etc...

HTH.

Get another job, at the moment they know he won't leave so there is no incentive to up his rate. Write CV get it out there and enter the world.
Post A-levels I have no real qualifications but a lot of hard work and being in the right place at the right time has helped.
If he's getting sorted with this computer system then there are other opportunities, time to investigate and be proactive.

I've told him to call their bluff & say 'Promo/pay rise or I'm off'

Friend of mine had an apprentice working for him who came in one morning with those exact words '' my dad told me ...''
Needless to say that was the end of their working relationship. It was a fantastic opportunity as my mate makes bespoke kitchens and furniture working for wealthy clients in amazing houses. I've since seen the young lad and he is now house bashing with a builder, admits it was the biggest mistake he ever made

Entry level IT support without qualifications aka 'the computer lad' should be on about 16-18k I'd have thought. The thing is, in IT your experience is at least as valuable, if not more so than your qualifications. However if he's a workstream leader it could be more than that still, presumably that means team leader. I've been in IT for 17 years and I've never officially been a team leader 🙂

This whe qualification thing is balls its just harder and closes some doors.

Our old IT apprentice did a similar thing, eh was on peanuts and worth a lot more. finally he jumped and picked up an nice 50% pay rise by moving to a new company. In my experience, it's the way that things are done in IT.

I've been in IT for 17 years and I've never officially been a team leader

Congrats. There's nothing more tedious than man management (although some people seem to like it, mainly the ones completed unsuited to it though).

12.5K is just dismal, even in the NE.

Get your lad to start sticking CVs into other employers and asking around actively. If he gets a decent offer, he can use it as leverage or, IMO, just start bulking out the CV by moving on.

I'd get him updating his CV and looking for something else. If he's got the skills and can convey his experience well in an interview he should get something better without too much problem. It'll look good, because he can say that he started doing X, then moved onto more responsibility of X , Y & Z but now he needs a new challenge etc.

Then stick it to the company he's currently at.
If it was me in this situation and my current company all of a sudden magicked a load of money out of thin air to up my salary rather than losing me to a new company, I'd be thinking long and hard about working for a company who wasn't willing to pay me what I was worth (at least in the ball park).

It the way thinks are dome everywhere and we do it with database analysts who generally double their salary when they leave us.
[quote=joshvegas said]This whe qualification thing is balls its just harder and closes some doors.

what doors do qualifications close?

The ideal scenario is to have both qualifications and experience

He's not anywhere near a decent salary, so the basis for negotiations is very low to start with. By this I mean that even if he does get a payrise, he'll still be on rubbish money.
One thing which is worth looking at is the company salary structure.
Sometimes workers earn pittance until a certain point, where it rockets.
In a previous company the difference between a grade 6 and a grade 7 was enormous (all other levels were modest payrises).

Yep - confidence in company broken, look for new job and take one when offered.

I was told my a colleague (contractor) once at a large bank I worked for that the quickest way to move up is to move out.

I was told my a colleague (contractor) once at a large bank I worked for that the quickest way to move up is to move out.

Pretty much true in most places.....

Probably best to avoid stagnating in a role for too long early in your worklife, too. Even if they paid him more, I'd be interested in what opportunities there were for gaining skills and moving officially into areas with more responsibility and challenges.

Update his CV and get looking for another job.

I've been in similar positions, not paid what I was worth, or "sorry, there's just no more money available". Found something else and moved on. On every occasion there was some more money offered, but in my mind it was too late.

There's no reason why he shouldn't have the conversation with someone who can make a real decision though. "I do X, Y & Z, I think I'm worth this much". No threats, just see what they say. If that doesn't work then look for another job.

On the other foot, employers will pay the least amount possible. It does matter if you're the part time tea boy or the CEO. If an employee gave me the "I've got another job, pay me this or I'm off" speech, then to me you don't want to work here. Go work somewhere else. I would have expected them to at least ask before trying to use another job as a bargaining tool.

£12.5K is taking the piss though.

He should work on his CV, look at doing some courses including night school. He needs to get another job.

Been there and done that. The sad truth is he probably wont get much more unless he leaves. In the places I have worked, even if he applies for an internal job at a higher grade, there is always some reason why they wont pay an internal candidate what they were offering to external candidate.

Is the system he is working on a well known system or something unique to the company?

If well known, I would suggest looking at some training based on the technology. The problem is he may be an expert in his current company but that knowledge is not always transferable due to different systems and processes.

Good luck to him, not an easy position to be in.

£12.5K is taking the piss though.

Minimum wage just about.

I've been in just this position

In my experience, an employer will offer a substantial pay increase to retain your skill set, to what they should have been paying you in the first place, or more.

... shortly after you've handed your notice in. at any point before that, they're not interested, and will pay you the minimum they can get away with

Could he start a part time course? He sounds bright so maybe it's time to get some qualifications?

It would also sound good in any interview with another employer. Local colleges usually do BTEC type courses..

Any conversation should be phased as "I want to progress - what training can I do?" Not how much will I get. Look like a contributor not a taker.

But being prepared is a key to making it a worthwhile conversation for basing any future decisions on. Do the CV. That will help get a real handle on your son's skills, for agencies to suggest alternatives, for the current employer to realise what they might lose, to identify possible training opportunities. It will also help your son start or reinforce the right terminology for any conversation.

The suggestion to look at the company structure and pay scales is a good one. It will help decide if the prospects are reasonable, if the gap is reasonable/achievable, if qualifications are really a barrier.

Doing any qualification/training is never a waste. It gives you time to learn something and get a piece of paper that will open doors at the very least or it gives you time to reflect on things (crap or otherwise)

wingnuts - Member

Any conversation should be phased as "I want to progress - what training can I do?" Not how much will I get. Look like a contributor not a taker.

I'd like to agree, but he's already progressed and received barely any reward, the precedent's not good.

I pay people who work hard a good wage (the flip side is that shirkers never get a sniff of an increase obviously) but I also won't be held to ransom. I understand why people want more (who doesn't want more?) but there's what I'd consider the "right" salary for a job and I tend not to push beyond that unless someone is really exceptional then I'd go for more.

If you do any work to rule or "pay me more or I'm off" be prepared to need to look for a job sharpish. I've worked in places, though, where if you do either of those, your days are numbered and it's best to get looking for a new job. It's mostly why, if I resign, I go, despite any offers of an increase.

For the OP though, your son may have to accept that he has topped out in his position and either needs to ask the management about future prospects and ways to develop in the company or just find a new job.

FWIW, I was paid 12k a year working on a IT helpdesk when I embarked on my prestigous career in IT. I had very little knowledge but was given training etc and within two years was earning twice that.

So maybe think outside of the 'working in a warehouse' box and get him to look at entry level stuff in IT etc (its not too bad a career!). It might not necessarily pay much more to start with though generally a promotion/more responsibility would equate to more than a £500 pay rise!

So maybe think outside of the 'working in a warehouse' box and get him to look at entry level stuff in IT etc (its not too bad a career!).