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Mrs K experienced systemic racism yesterday. After selling loads on eBay, she went to the post office. After swiping her card, she asked for the receipt - the guy told here he'll give her the reciept but that'll cost 50p.
Obviously she told him to go and **** himself and she wasn't born yesterday, we should report him for the demand TBH.
Was it a crap attempt at a joke? I mean WTF?
However a quick google shows that a retailer is not legally compelled to give a receipt.
Spitting has absolutely nothing to do with those players being Arab, 5plusn8. It's just a habit that a lot of footballers have in France from the local park to Stade de France. There's a scientific explanation if you watch the vid and the kids imitate the stars.
However a quick google shows that a retailer is not legally compelled to give a receipt.
The same people in the same post office have never asked me to pay for a receipt. I'm white, she's black. Now, I could be drawing to the wrong conclusion here and maybe she was merely unlucky to be asked, or asked for another reason.
In context and to be fair to her, she never came home and cried "I've been racially abused!!" She just told me the story.
Whatever the underlying motive, that needs reporting and investigating.
5plusn8 I'm sure we're all guilty of it to some degree, we're conditioned by our society and that society is white male dominated. Whilst we are a product of that society we can't use that as an excuse, there have always been voices which have countered it and it's time we recognise them. This does require us as individuals to reflect upon our own views and educate ourselves about others experiences. We can't do this without help as a lot of it is unconscious bias but we do need to develop an acceptance for when we get it wrong so that we have the opportunity to learn.
I'm lucky that my social circle is culturally rich, which creates an environment which is tolerant and open to discussion about each others beliefs and background. I've exposed my ignorance many times, to my horror and embarrassment, but I listened and changed my language and outlook.
Kryton57 it's those kind of micro-aggressions that white people often don't notice and don't realise happen on regular occurrence. It's the kind of experience that leaves you questioning what you just witnessed
edukator "Spitting has absolutely nothing to do with those players being Arab, 5plusn8"
Yeah indeed, its just filthy though.
Kryton57 - as cougar says, report, it could also be sexist, anecdotally there is a correlation anyway.
Faerie - I agree conditioning is a lot to do with it. I guess that why I ask for time and forgiveness. A big dislike for me is when there is a massive pile on, nobody is going to change their mind if you make them a non person for being racist, despite them doing it by being racist. I'm not excusing it, its repulsive, just being pragmatic. You can't change someones mind by calling them an arsehole.
Not sure how you can totally remove racism or prejudice or anti semitism or sexism or elitism or profiling or bigotry or being biased or any other ism. It's ingrained in us to pick out the differences in people. Honest open talking about it though will definitely help. But I agree with a previous poster we need to educate and learn to forgive and help people change not just label people, I worry that if a daft teenager makes a stupid comment on social media and is then labelled with something for the rest of their lives with no way for them to repent and better themselves.
I've read all of this thread and found it enlightening and confusing at the same time. If I see a person of colour am I supposed to see the colour of their skin and treat them accordingly (how would that manifest itself?) or see the colour and treat them as anyone else? Should my behaviour be different for people I know as opposed to those I just meet?
I would hate to patronise anyone assuming they were automatically disadvantaged based on the colour of their skin.
Inkster.......
You care to have a guess who was "Special Adviser" to Gove when all those changes to the Education System were being made?
Yup..... Dominic Cummings.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/03/gove-cummings-dark-arts-education-trash-country
Gove, Cummings and their cohorts have managed to re-engineer history. Its more than institutional racism, its indocrinational racism. Or, as they and their chum Steve Bannon like to call it 'Cultural Marxism.'
I would hate to patronise anyone assuming they were automatically disadvantaged based on the colour of their skin
I used to have couple of flats I rented out cheaply. I rented twice to people from Ivory Coast and also from Algeria. I made a point of not discriminating to the point it was objectively positive discrimination (patronise) as I was aware they'd have more trouble finding somewhere to rent (automatically disadvantaged).
Since I started this thread, I have been following it with immense interest and really appreciate the stories of those who have had real experience with racism either themselves or through their partners/children.
Education helps, and just reading some of this stuff makes me realise how vital it is to become more conscious of racism and its effects.
Not that this has to be or will be the last post on the matter, but I want to say thanks.
You can’t be blind or intolerant to any form of racism.
Otherwise you are just endorsing their view.
Challenge it, it isn’t a matter of having an argument or falling out with the individual(s).
Just why would you want to be associated with such an ignorant attitude?
Superior is free on amazon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Superior-Return-Science-Angela-Saini-ebook/dp/B07KLMJVCM/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=Superior&qid=1591532296&sr=8-1
Well it’s certainly relevant in the case of the McMichaels, Amy Cooper and Derek Chauvin nothing justifies you sweeping it under the carpet because you’re ‘colourblind’
I'm not derek Chauvin nor am I sweeping it under the carpet.
If you treat someone differently because of the colour of their skin you are discriminating.
Poah,
See Edukator's last post. He saw colour and he discriminated in a positive way. He recognised an asymmetry in society and by not being 'colour blind' realised he was in a position to make a difference.
Well I just got kicked out of my local mtb facebook group for challenging an 'I'm not racist, but...' post. Appears the redneck spirit is alive and well in the FoD.
Well I just got kicked out of my local mtb facebook group for challenging an ‘I’m not racist, but…’ post. Appears the redneck spirit is alive and well in the FoD.
Same, got thrown out of a Bike radar spin off FB group (not directly connected though) that I’ve been a part of for 10+ years, for reporting a racist post. This was 2 months ago.
@poah just because you're indifferent to skin colour doesn't mean that there is no issue. The fact that you personally aren't affected by it is the essence of white privilege.
But as you feel that is a racist concept, we've gone full circle.
I've just been asked to write a chapter on allyship and the challenges I face as an anti-racist white person; it's for an anthology on racism in a Scottish context. I'm feeling a bit out of my depth, but so honoured to be considered an ally and to have insight and a positive influence for a change.
Inkster
discriminated in a positive way
so he is discriminating on the basis of colour. There is no such thing as positive discrimination there either is discrimination or there isn’t
It would have cheered things up to have seen that Burnley flyover being challenged by a muslamic ray gun.
Chrismac.
There's discrimination based on hate, discrimination based on ignorance and discrimination based on thoughtfulness.
Google "affirmative action", something that came out of the 60s civil rights movement. I agree with the idea. When I started a business my first employee was Peruvian which created a few administrative headaches. Give people a fair chance and they'll seize the opportunity to prove you right IME.
I'm an immigrant, people gave me chances, I did my best to prove them right.
Sorry to her that some of us have been kicked off Facebook groups because they've chosen to address the issue of race, though I'm not entirely surprised. I've been mountain biking on and off for 30 years and always loved the TDF etc but always been conscious that my sport might be a bit prejudiced.
The confirmation for me came a couple of years back when Gianni Moscons' appaling behaviour was backed up by SKY management. They went into panic mode, more concerned about potential sanctions that might be imposed on their rider than the plight of the victim. 'Gianni apologised so there's nothing to see here' seemed to be the line.
Racism has always been visible in working class sports but it's more hidden in middle class ones. Take Lewis Hamilton, surely the most trolled and abused individual in the country over the last few years. There's no end of people queuing up to tell is that it's not his colour but his personality that causes offence.
Owing to the inherent dangers of motor racing, drivers have been traditionally been given a wider berth than other sports figures, . Their arrogance, conceitedness, obtuseness, recklessness and sometimes difficult personalities have been priced in as part of the package.
Not for Lewis, he gets his ear pierced and Twitter goes into meltdown, he platts his hair and the internet breaks. He's also the only racing driver ever to have lived in the tax haven of Monaco.
And then there's tennis.....
EDIT
Keep up the good work faerie and keep us informed. You know you've got the support of many on here.
Looking at what's been posted I can see what (I certainly hope) Poah is trying to say. That he treats people no differently in his everyday interactions regardless of skin colour.
Now to me that sounds like he would say the same things and act in the same way, treat them with the same amount of individual respect (you wouldn't show your white vegan mate pics from inside a slaughterhouse just as you wouldn't try to dupe a Muslim into consuming something that's haram). Yeah, know your audience but that goes for everyone.
See people as individuals rather than colours. That in no way negates anything they have experienced due to racism nor does it have to fail to acknowledge those experiences.
In a bigger picture sense I hate the term 'positive discrimination' as its all too easy to be [deliberately] misinterpreted as meaning equality of outcome when in fact its about equality of opportunity (equity). Lifting people up so they are all on the same starting line rather than several paces behind.
I think the two go hand in hand, if I've got it wrong then please tell me where.