[Closed] How angry are Americans?

The total lack of a safety net is just barbaric in a supposedly first world country

Same can be said about the UK. You pretend that the countries are very different yet they are not.

You use income inequality as a good example, but based on the UN figures the UK and the US are roughly the same.

Again, there seems to be a fascination / obsession in the UK to sling mud at the US yet the big stick in the eye at home is not being addressed. Very odd behaviour.

Not really we have the NHS so one really can say there is a safety net for those without adequate health insurance

If you want to accuse others of pretending use another measure.

FWIW there is some merit in your broad point but it is also ok to compare and contrast as in some areas we are better than them [ healthcare is clearly one of the, as is gun laws] and in others they outperform us .

The US has Medicaid and medicare. No one slips through the net.

The mis-information peddled in the UK media that people don't get treated and die in the US is about as accurate as the crap that is peddled in the US media about the NHS.

Don't believe everything you read.

How angry are Americans?

[img] [/img]

Fairly?

Again, there seems to be a fascination / obsession in the UK to sling mud at the US yet the big stick in the eye at home is not being addressed.

Not at all. This thread isn't about problems in the UK (we have 1000s of threads on here which cover that).

Don't believe everything you read.

Perhaps you should read a bit more eg http://www.amazon.com/2-00-Day-Living-Nothing-America/dp/0544303180

Ok, so it is just about feeling better about yourselves. Understood.

You use income inequality as a good example, but based on the UN figures the UK and the US are roughly the same.

Based on virtually every other figures the US is far, far worse. But yes it's a problem here too, well done. Whataboutery at its finest.

LHS do you actually post on ST other than to get all huffy and defensive if anyone says a word of criticism about America?

Ok, so it is just about feeling better about yourselves. Understood.

Nope. Nothing wrong with looking at other societies and passing comment on the good / bad in them.

Have you read the OP at all - you might find that the topic of whether Americans are happy with America has made national news and lots of people are discussing it. It's called current affairs.

Using the two most common indexs

1. The ratio of the average income of the richest 10% to the poorest 10%

UK 14%
US 15%

As a comparator, Norway is 6.1%

2. The ratio of the average income of the richest 20% to the poorest 20%

UK 7.2%
US 8.4%

As a comparator, Norway is 3.9%

So no, not far far worse. Bad compared to Norway though.

I post when I want, I am like all others on here, take exception when incorrect information is being peddled as fact.

The US has Medicaid and medicare. No one slips through the net

Are you trying to be taken seriously on this thread or are you just taking the piss?

Yes its universal coverage and range of services is directly comparable to the NHS provision.

Don't believe everything you read.

Ok, so it is just about feeling better about yourselves. Understood.

Why so defensive?

I'll discuss inequality and problems wherever they occur and I have knowledge of them. Especially as ff says when someone starts a thread about it clearly asking questions intended to promote a discussion. Which this is.

Do you not want us to discuss the US? or say anything bad about it?

Let's not start down the comparison of NHS level of service to other countries. It's not a stellar universal record that's for sure.

The US has Medicaid and medicare. No one slips through the net.

Except for the poor, which seem to die more....

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I say plenty bad about the US, I live there for around 6 months of the year. Just take exception to incorrect facts.

Where would you like me to start? Standard of driving is awful. There, is that good?

Let's not start down the comparison of NHS level of service to other countries

you could have reasonably said the second part of that posut bit its ludicrous to compare that basic coverage [ with eligibility criteria] to the NHS and clearly more people fall through the cracks there than here. All you have to do here is turn up and that is the eligibility criteria met for any required treatment currently available for the required duration The US provision is not like this, is often time limited and we all know this.

Lets not compare them as I doubt anyone supports your view.

For every graph, there is another story..

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/may/02/uk-child-death-rate-scandal-poverty

The US has Medicaid and medicare. No one slips through the net.

Are you suggesting everyone in the US has full cover for everything? Cos they don't. From their own website:

Medicare is the federal health insurance program for people who are 65 or older, certain younger people with disabilities, and people with End-Stage Renal Disease (permanent kidney failure requiring dialysis or a transplant, sometimes called ESRD).

So someone who works two part time jobs won't get any health insurance, because part-time jobs usually don't come with it. Even the cheapest policies are very expensive, a lot more than private health cover here (because it has to cover everything). So you might pay $300/mo for basic emergency care and nothing else. Which is a huge burden for a lot of people. And even if you are insured, it has limits. If you are sick enough to go over those - you're in big debt.

Did you know for example that having a baby costs you $4-5k, because it's not usually covered?

Point out what's incorrect please LHS.

For every graph, there is another story..

Don't believe everything you read!

😉

You seem to be under the dillusion that everyone (except you) thinks the UK is perfect. It's not, but then neither is the US.

Of course they're angry - have you seen the line up for next President? They must be hopping mad.....

You have to take into account that average wages are $15,000 a year more in the US with an average tax burden of around 9% less.

If you do a compartor of how much of your tax burden in the UK goes towards NI and NHS contributions then compare it to the average spend on private healthcare coupled with the overall lower cost of living it all evens out.

I don't think the UK or US or other countries I have lived in are perfect, they are not by any means. I just take exception at incorrect facts.

LHS, instead of being ultra defensive can you provide any real world experience that has been asked. You obviously have some knowledge of life on both sides of the pond.

Well tell us the true facts then.

Which fact specifically, LHS?

You have to take into account that average wages are $15,000 a year more in the US with an average tax burden of around 9% less.

I would question the usefulness of that mean statistic.

As for it evening out - if you are talking about healthcare, insurance is not the whole story. Simply having insurance is not any guarantee of getting treatment for whatever's wrong with you. In the UK, coverage is FAR better.

If you do a compartor of how much of your tax burden in the UK goes towards NI and NHS contributions then compare it to the average spend on private healthcare coupled with the overall lower cost of living it all evens out.

At the median it might look roughly the same, but at the extremes it's very different. At the lower end it's much worse in the US than the UK (although the current Government is doing it's best to emulate US levels of poverty).

I just take exception at incorrect facts.

Junkyard, as with most people on here I am not going to engage your constant need to antagonize people.

I work in the US a lot and to me the biggest difference I see there between the US and UK in terms of inequality is how much of the inequality in the US is racially based. Basically some of the minorities in the US are underclasses, much more so than in the UK. I see this so clearly in US cities but it is very infrequently spoken about.

A good example on cost is that the average tax contributions in the UK to the NHS are somewhere around 800GBP if I recall correctly.

The average monthly individual healthcare premium in the US Is around $250, so $3000 a year.

So as a direct comparison, that means that people in the US pay around $1800 a year in healthcare costs more than in the UK.

Now take into account that average wages are $15k more, average tax burden is 9% less and that your healthcare costs are also tax deductible, you can see that it is not as crazy as the media make it out to be.

Yes, what tony said. Racial inequality in the US is a huge problem and is only getting worse.

Well said that man!

So as a direct comparison, that means that people in the US pay around $1800 a year in healthcare costs more than in the UK.

It's not a direct comparison BECAUSE THE COVERAGE IS NOT AS GOOD

Have you got me blocked or something?

Mean income is useless. That could just mean there are a lot of really rich people whilst everyone else is poorer. More information in this picture. The COMMONEST income bracket for an entire household is 15-20k.

[img] [/img]

Can you show your source for this mean income 15k more statistic please?

[quote=LHS ]Junkyard, as with most people on here I am not going to engage your constant need to antagonize people.

I am not antagonising you you said somethign factually wrong whilst lecturing us on not saying things that are factually wrong

We had already establishes that you were going to put no effort in to defending the wrong things you said

Feel free to blame me for your approach to informed fact based debate.

What excuse will you use to all the others who have said the wrong thing was wrong?

Again your broad point is not without merit but comparing that to the NHS was fatuous as were your subsequent replies.

Ok so I will tell you that the level of service in a US doctors is significantly better than a UK doctors, based on personal opinion of course.

See there you go again, such an argumentative tone.

EDIT: Was the reply i responded to conciliatory and cordial then 😉

I suspect we all accept that when you pay more they are nicer to you - may read antagonistic but not meant to be.

However the point remains that the majority do better with our system than theirs but some of the better off there often do better with their provision than we do.

Ok so I will tell you that the level of service in a US doctors is significantly better than a UK doctors, based on personal opinion of course.

No-one's disputing the quality of healthcare in the US.

We are criticising its availability.

I've said my piece, carry on with the bashing.

Nutter. You are taking this way too personally.

Inequality in the US is a HUGE issue (as it is elsewhere), I have no idea why you are in denial about it. Actually, I do - you like the US and you have taken it personally.

Well the US is just a splodge of land on a map - it's not a personal thing.

[quote=LHS ]I've said my piece, carry on with the bashing.

no one is bashing they are saying what you said was wrong because it was wrong.

I have not taken anything personally, that is your assumption. I spend around equal amounts of time between the UK and US and they both have big inequality levels of a similar proportion.

No name calling, it does not promote equality.

no one is bashing they are saying what you said was wrong because it was wrong.

I will let you have that last word, I know how important it is to you.

😀

LHS - you evidently don't see much. The inequality in the US is far greater and wide-reaching. The disparity in medical services between the wealthy and the poor is vast and one of the huge problems.
Saying that you have a better level of service at a US doctor is because you are privileged and paying a lot of money for the pleasure.
Your figures so far don't mention copay or anything else related to additional costs.
Your figures didn't mention the inability of people to get healthcare cover (before the ACA) with pre-existing medical conditions.
You've not mentioned an infant mortality rate that reflects poorer babies dying more often.
"A recent Harvard University study showed that medical expenses account for approximately 62 percent of personal bankruptcies in the US. Interestingly, the study also showed that 72 percent of those who filed for bankruptcy due to medical expenses had some type of health insurance, thus debunking the myth that only the uninsured face financial catastrophes due to medical-related expenses."

The American healthcare system is terrible. Most Americans think it is normal and are not angry about it. The most vocal can afford it so they don't really care. There is no real safety net. Medicare and Medicaid are not there for all.

No name calling....
I will let you have that last word, I know how important it is to you.

Do you often find yourself doing the thing you just said we should not do - what with that and the demand for cats and then failing?

You really do need to calm down it really was not big deal and I dont know why you got so worked up about it.