[Closed] High profile job / work-life balance: Dadworkertrackworld

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Take a high tech approach. Behold:

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^ that's great, I need one of them.

I think you have to be quite strong to stand up to what feels right for your family, in spite of the onslaught of the more hours is better corporate mentality. It's all too common for bosses to want to create clones of themselves, without realising their own faults.

Do you ever wander about on the floors and speak to people ? Do you attend low-level team meetings from time to time, just to say hello and ask them what they are doing ? None of these things take that much out of your day. Some really good leaders I have worked with did that kind of thing.

^This

No one on this thread truly knows what your boss means by "more visible" but having had an MD a couple of years ago who rarely if ever came in the office, to our current one who is frequently in the office engaging with ALL the staff, it makes a huge and positive difference to the team and the business if leaders are "more visible".

^ that's great, I need one of them.

...it would probably be cheaper to pay someone the minimum wage to walk around with an iPad!

Time to risk a flaming for being 'sensible', but this exchange stood out for me:

DT78 - Member

What is the most important thing in life for you?

Posted 12 hours ago #

Ben_H - Member

DT78 - Member
What is the most important thing in life for you?

Riding bikes!!!!

Surely that ought to have been "my wife and kids" then "riding bikes".

However, other than this I feel the OP's pain and I don't have a mega-job.

I can see things coming to a head at my workplace sometime - I don't know which way I would jump (which is the worrying thing). Depending on my mood I could easily grovel and promise my life away or tell them to stuff it on the spot!

^^^ Um... that was a joke about riding bikes being the most important thing in life!

I'm not "invisible" because I spend too much time riding bikes. 🙁

Family comes first, no if's or but's. You know as well as i do that if you were to be no longer required they would get rid of you. My advice would be to turn up, do your best for the 9 hours a day you're there and get back home as you are doing.

Some bosses almost obsess over this type of thing. If all else fails, there are other jobs.

Stay as you are and dont worry.

I think it is about working smarter and not harder. If your boss gives you that feedback, it probably means you are focusing on the wrong things and not that they want you to work harder or be away more.

Try delegating all the day to day stuff and free yourself up to be talk to people, be seen more and be less "busy".

I bet a lot of people on their death bed also say "I wish I'd pushed myself harder at work and not drifted"

I get the "at your level you need to be at your desk" talk occasionally mostly when I've had time out of the office for medical appointments (I have had serious illness in the past and require regular checkups etc which the company knew about when I joined) even though I've opened up the office at 08:00 virtually every weekday for 4 years and I'm often locking it back up at 18:30.

I just normally remind my boss that I work smart and that if my teams can't work without me for an hour or two then there's bigger problems to solve than me not being at my desk! Obviously this only works because the teams I 'manage' are actually very easy to work with because they are all excellent at their jobs and deliver high quality output and hit > 95% of their deadlines.

Ben_H - Member

^^^ Um... that was a joke about riding bikes being the most important thing in life!

I'm not "invisible" because I spend too much time riding bikes.

I was just checking as you can't hear the tone of someone's voice or see their facial expression as they say something on a forum.

Still, all the best to you OP - think of it like this - [u]who[/u] do you work for. If it is for your family (as it ought to be) then you just need to work out if they will truly appreciate this later on, or whether you should step the work back a bit.

I hope you work it out - at least you had to get to your level to find yourself in this situation - I have a fairly middling job managing two people and find myself having to balance things!

"I wish I'd pushed myself harder at work and not drifted".

I'd rather spend more time with my wife and kids. Each to their own.

fwiw.... I think you are fine as you are, if the work is getting done to a high enough standard

I used to have a fairly important job/career. Got made redundant, relocated, have done various "lower" jobs while the kids have been small that have given us a great work/life balance - turned down promotions and transfers that would have kick started a proper career again, but would have missed out on the kids.

Kids now 12 and 9, and are turning out great. But I'm nearly 47, stuck in a job I now hate and with no career path internally or externally, and I have 20 years to fill before pension age.

I have absolutely no regrets about refusing to climb the greasy pole and putting family first, but I've left myself in limbo, not kept my skills up to date and it's a big scary world out there at the moment for anyone thinking of jumping ship or trying something different.

I was just checking as you can't hear the tone of someone's voice or see their facial expression as they say something on a forum.

🙂

Hi. Don't make this a personal issue, I would imagine you are not alone in receiving this 'sound' advice from a manager who manages people in a passive\aggressive manner.

Continue to remain professional, which it sounds like you are and just continue with your role - seek clarification to any matters via email.

Needless worrying will ruin the quality time you have with your family, which is far more important!

Must be really hard working for a [s]bird[/s] woman like that, how would you score her performance ? marks out of two 😈

It's ace being somewhere where work/life balance is legally enforced, and societal pressures mean that everyone does it to some degree.

Senior directors taking 6-12 months parental leave and only working 80% when they come back, so they can spend a whole extra day a week with their kids.

Or buggering off for a week and being completely out of touch.

Colleagues with kids of any age arriving and departing at odd times to fit in with nursery/school/stuff. No one even comments. Not turning in because kids are sick. No problem, let someone know and they'll cover for you......

It's mad. Dunno how businesses manage. 😉

If you are involved in UK public sector, or work closely with it, then point your boss (and your entire organisation) in the direction of TW3 - not the London postcode, but "The Way We Work".

[url= http://www.flexibility.co.uk/issues/TW3-Guide-to-Smart-Working-in-Government.htm ]TW3[/url]

If you aren't implementing this, then you are wasting tax payer money in many ways.

Increasing your visibility by being in the office more is a management culture that belongs in the 1980s. Your visibility in a modern, efficient, organisation is about what you deliver, not your hours in the office.

yeah Op say what richardK just said to your boss and les us know how you get on. 🙂

How much money do you need each month? I started working for myself after leaving employment with a big firm, and 5 years on I work part time and have 3 full days a week with my son and wife, plus home by 4pm the 3 days I do work.

I can't see the logic in working more hours to make more money when the reason I would be doing it is for my family. My time means much more to them

Interesting to see central government advice about flexible working and all this about importance of work life balance and not staying after 5.
I though the government had recently proclaimed that normal working hours were 7am-10pm Monday to Friday and till 5pm on Saturday.

Are we missing the obvious- you're away overnight and your boss said [u]she[/u] wants to see more of you.....

Its a modern fallacy that you can balance these things - you cant, except in exceptional circumstances. High jobs generally require significant commitment, bloody hard work and sacrifice. The higher you go, then harder it gets and yes (sadly) family time gets sacrificed.

So in honesty, it comes down to a personal decision as to where your priorities lie - and they may/will change over time.

As an employer, its also pretty easy to judge

Well, I'm sorry to say but if it's anything like the company I work for them high profile job and work life balance don't come hand in hand. They don't pay the big bucks for you to spend time with the family. I'm at that point, one level below company senior staff so got a reasonably good work life balance but any higher and it swings significantly the wrong way, so that's it for me, I'll stick where I am.

My observations of senior management is that being visible is all about walking around all day telling people what a great job they do and how busy they are rather than just cracking on and doing your job.

LOL I am NOT cut out for the corporate world!
Got plenty of billable work done early O clock this morning and went riding this afternoon!
Skive to survive!

I had a bit of this when I moved out of the London office 'Will you be in the Office tomorrow' I'd get asked and reply 'Yes in my official office in Birmingham'. The fact 75% of staff and most of the partners worked in London kind of drove that behaviour..

Next step for me was Director. Never wanted to be a partner. Looked at other directors and thought 'nah, that's not for me, too lazy, too interested in other things, don't really like the firm that much' so left. The rewards were pretty good in terms of money and working on really interested engagements. The downsides were predictable and well documented in this thread.

I came to the conclusion I'd rather p!ss away what little talent I had in a rural backwater working for people I liked in an industry I respected and never being an employee of any firm. Sometimes I miss the high-wire, high0-acheivement stuff, but not often.

Sadly - especially when working for one of the big 4 consultancies - it was as much about 'show'n'tell' as any talent. You wanted to get on, you play the game, their ball, their rules.

There's always another option that I don't think has been mentioned yet...

... just ignore it

Managers even at the highest levels often aren't actually that great at the management side of the job and come out with nonsense with the misplaced aim of being motivating. It is always a possibility at least and might not require a complete reevaluation of your entire life!

DanW - Member

There's always another option that I don't think has been mentioned yet...

... just ignore it

Managers even at the highest levels often aren't actually that great at the management side of the job and come out with nonsense with the misplaced aim of being motivating. It is always a possibility at least and might not require a complete reevaluation of your entire life!

Interesting thread. Am in a middle management job at work. Good money (not going to make millions but don't really care) and reasonable hours. I'm actually at the point now with a young son that if they offered me promotion at work i would be very likely to turn it down. Having seen the hours some of them do i am not interested even for more money. Thankfully we were sensible in getting a small mortgage so it means we can manage happily now. Also my wife makes it known when i do spend a bit too much time at work.

I just hope you get it sorted at work, part of me wonders if your boss had any idea of exactly what he was saying. Many of them don't

When push comes to shove your employer will screw you over. Your kids will give you a hug then ask for coco pops. It's not easy but family first.

As with others, if you've managed to get to a senior position without thinking about this sort of thing then you're in the wrong game.

Six figure salaries come with expectations. There is nothing wrong with your career being important to you, but you have to be smart to get the best out of it. TBH if you've been given that sort of chat it's time to get a 10 minute conversation with her for the direct feedback on what she means by "visible".

You then have a decision: lean in and act on it, or actively choose to earn less/take lower responsibility somewhere else and sleep in your own bed every night.

In short: toughen up and take control of your work life balance.

Not a high profile job at all, but I was being asked to spend more & more time in work last year.
Which would you like to hear in 15 years from now?
Dad your company was really successful thanks to you when I was young.
Or
Dad you're the best dad I could wish for and you did loads with us.

Just worked it out: you're not managing upwards well enough.

Happened to me once too. I suggested everyone else should moive their desks into the auditorium and workshop if that would help or they could stay and watch a loadout until 2 am?.

I have had the "visibility" argument levelled at me several times and it basically boils down to presenteeism i.e. you must be an effective worker because we always see you here rather than being measured on delivered results and measurable outcomes.

Despite my best attempts to convince my senior management that wasn't the case I never won the argument and therefore ended making myself more visible. This ultimately resulted in my marriage breaking down as I spent more and more time at work.

Ultimately it comes down to a question you need to ask yourself. Is work or my family more important to me? You have the most valuable currency available to you: time. How you spend it is your choice. Spend it on the stuff that matters to you not others.

Like mentioned above if you have managed to get to a relatively senior position without knowing how to play the game hats off.

I don't agree about presenteeism, though I can see why people think that. It is about being involved with the right people at the right times. Analyse the time you spend with colleagues. How much with the board, how much with heads, how much with peers, how much with teams. If you want to climb the slippy pole you need a greater % with the seniors.

Little tricks of the trade I chuckle when I see them, things like sitting in the atrium right by the entrance on your laptop from 8am whilst most people arrive, Knowing what time the FD goes for a coffee and aim to be in the queue with that proposal in your hand. Time delaying your emails so they send later. Sending the odd out of hours text or taking your bosses call. Actively trying to find a reason to talk to the board and get them to give you a task. I could go on. This sort of thing makes you look visible without necessarily meaning you have to be in the office 24/7.

You see, I'm rubbish at that ^ and other politics. I'm kind of reliant on having a boss whose either interested enough in my career or my career is invested in thier success enough for them to carry me along with them.

My current boss is asking me is asking me to develop a bit more confidence around the office, making my presence felt, deliberately intercepting the uber boss and investing in small talk kind of thing. It's not natural for me and I believe that's because I'm from a heads down PSG background, now in the "glamour*" of corporate sales.

*its not glamourous, it's really hard work inc. travel building pipelines and relationships whillst aiming for a target with a small "m" at the end of it. Expenses account? BP petrol station for lunch more like before spending 5hrs in the car Friday evening.

My Wife was on a course this week.
They were asked what the letters in the company name stood for.
One guy apparently said that his kids say it stood for
Daddy Home Late!
EDIT.
I have been asked to mention that the situation is being addressed, and that work / life balance is becoming more of a focus. They have been great for MrsDTs career & bringing up kids

How does this culture of [s]bloodsucking[/s] work all hours in the UK compare with the continent? Is it the same in Germany for example?

When push comes to shove your employer will screw you over. Your kids will give you a hug then ask for coco pops. It's not easy but family first.

Wise words !

Nobody has a career ! the career has them 😉

Euro's not as bad as us, US worse than us.

Most of Europe is between slightly better and far better. One supplier i deal with they pretty much need Gods boss to sign off any over time above 8 hours a week. That includes security escorting people off site at 7pm. Including Gods boss. Only people in after 7/before 7 are those on night shift and security.
[quote="ourmaninthenorth"]Six figure salaries come with expectationsyeah, they expect you to be good at your job and worth the money. Not brown nosing and "being seen".

Thing is, there's nothing wrong with being ambitious and having a family. If you do well in the corporate world, you are going to have to be available. Clearly you dont want to upset your bosses when they ask you to do stuff that interferes with family time, because ultimately doing well at work will pay dividends for your family for the rest of your life.

And there lies the quandary! Only you can define the balance, because it's so determined by your personality and nature. Personally, if faced with comments like that, I would nod and mumble something conciliatory and move on. Until such time as you feel threatened, do what you think is right.