[Closed] hi-fi buffs

Any good or bad things about my short list?

[b]swithering[/b]

thanks for your insightful input

thanks for your insightful input

don't worry you'll get far more tosh than that :o)

I went from a Cyrus to a Nait 5i. The Cyrus always felt underpowered and thin/lean/anaemic to me powering my Dynaudios. Despite being rated at the same output, the Nait is in another class. Loads more punch and control.
By all means, audition all you can (that's half the fun), but I'd be suprised if you ended up walking out with a Cyrus.

[b]RichPenny to the Forum please :-)[/b]

But he will recommend Naim 😉

Your right about the Leema and the Naim XS amps but I would just listen and go by your own judgement. I'm a great fan of the Naim sound but use seperate pre/power amps so can't comment on those that you picked. I guarantee that you will be more than happy with either. Ask if you can do a home demo as well as most good dealers will. That way it's going to give you a more accurate sound than at the dealers shop.

Damn and blast!
I read that as "high-fives buffs"...I thought it was going to be a thread about neck/head gear! 8)

Ask if you can do a home demo as well as most good dealers will.

that way you'll know they'll be reassuringly expensive...

I read that as "high-fives buffs"...I thought it was going to be a thread about neck/head gear!

that's a point FC, someone on here promised me a free buff from their collection but was just pulling my leg 🙁

We need to know about the partnering kit .. speakers? sensitivity? What sort of music do you like? Naim is a fun sound, but a bit coloured/unrealistic for vocal stuff. I loved my sugden a21a but it needs suitable speakers etc...

doof that could explain why there's a bunch of cyrus amps on fleabay.

anyway onto buffs, who the **** keeps hiding all mine?

If you're 'going to listen to them' does that mean at the retailers place? If so are you taking your speakers or do they have your speakers there to demo with. The source is less of an issue as it will be a comparative test and you can make a decision between the amps based on whatever source they are using. But the amp has to be able to drive the speakers and more than any other component, there needs to be good synergy between the amp and the speakers.

I'm familiar with all but the Leema and each would be a fine if very different choice, assuming that each can work with your speakers (what are they?).

The Naim and the Cyrus offer upgrade paths via external power supplies. Both the Flatcap from Naim and the PSX-R from Cyrus are comparable in price, but Naim have far more headroom in terms of expansion and upgrades. Most people who start off on a Naim route end up much further down the road than they might have expected.

Whatever you do though, don't listent to either the Naim or the Cyrus with the power supplies in place as it's just going to expand your budget.

The Moon I am less familiar with but have heard it once or twice; more akin to the Cyrus than the Naim.

Take the music you want to listen to; the one you end up turning the volume up highest on is most likely the one you want!

DDB- roksan kandy Cd player, linn keosa speakers, project x-pack turntable & musical fidelity phono stage. Music anything really apart from Heavy/Thrash Metal.

Impedance on the Linns is 4 ohms so they're not likely to be an easy load; most speakers will dip lower than their stated impedance at various points of frequency.

The Naim amps have modest stated power ratings but they punch well above their weight because they have so much in reserve; the amps out matters less than the quality and the ability to maintain that output regardless of the resistance the amp is seeing from the speaker.

i've not been too impressed with the linns to be honest. They have to be positioned exactly - if you know what i mean

Sorry to say but the Linn Keosa's are tripe!! They are far and away the worst speaker they've ever made. Ditch them! Get the dealer to recommend some speakers that you could buy at a later date if funds are tight then fleabay the Linn's immediately to make way for the better speakers. I use Linn Kan Mk1's and they are very good little bookshelf speakers although not to some tastes. given a decent amp like my NAP250 and they sing really well. Beauty of them too is they are designed to be used up against a wall. You can pick these up reasonably cheaply on fleabay too. It's a long dark path your treading but have some fun anyway.

It would be, and is, and probably will always be a NAIM for me. I have had mine for 10 years (olive series).

I listened to a Cyrus a few months ago and thought it was nothing short of awful. Yes perhaps it had not been 'run in' but I couldn't see how that would even start to bridge it short comings. It was just bright, forward and in your face - all the time.

I listened to a Linn Accurate DS, Naim 252 Pre, Naim NAP 300 and some new PMC FACT speakers at the weekend (just to see the DS in action). It was awesome and I can now sort of understand why some people (not me) are prepared to pay £20k plus for a hi-fi.

If you are prepared to pay cyrus 8 money then you could buy the NAIT XS rather than the straight NAIT.
NAIM

I am in the process of upgrading and I am looking to sell my Naim Pre and Power Amps if s/h is a consideration.

so you think i would be better off getting different speakers 1st? My current amp a rotel Ra03 pre & power is ok- but maybe it's the speakers that I've never been happy with.

anyone know owt about Bose compacts any good?

i would be interested in s/h gjp , i'll mail you later.

i would be interested in s/h gjp , i'll mail you later.

As I said, those speakers are really not very good I'm sorry to say - just because it says Linn doesn't mean it's guaranteed be good!

Mr ODD BALL here 😉

I have done the solid state amp bit over the years and I am finally happy because I use a valve amp ( rich penny hush!! 😀 )

Have a look at Icon Audio

http://www.iconaudio.co.uk/

Not mere black box's but almost ornaments with a lubberly smooth easy sound.

Mind you I use a cd player with a valve ouput and Horn loud speakers

but maybe it's the speakers that I've never been happy with.

here's a clue - the speakers make the sound

simonfbarnes - Member

but maybe it's the speakers that I've never been happy with.

here's a clue - the speakers make the sound

here is anothere clue the speakers only move because of the signal they are given

"garbage in garbage out

garbage in garbage out

true as far as it goes, but speakers add ~2% harmonic distortion, resonances and sidelobes...

Yes, def right there! Garbage in garbage out!

SFB, stick to cameras.........

I've got a fair bit of Cyrus kit, with Dynaudio speakers and I love it. I went to a NAIM demo at Hoole Hall hotel in Chester a couple of weeks ago with a pal who hasabout 20 grand's worth of their kit, and I have to say that until we got to the £15K system I was far from impressed - although this was probably down to the room we were in and the choice of music being played. Moral of the story is take some music you like, and know well, and rely on your ears more than internet opinions.

although this was probably down to the room we were in

At 15K it should sound good in a shit house sounds like a bad excuse to me (excuse from the manifacturers I bet)

As said by others, take some of your own, that you are familiar with, try to include something with proper instruments, preferably played well. And I don't mean classical - anything will do and take some electro. stuff too if you listen to it.

You decide - everyone's ears are different. And your paying for it.

Naim stuff lasts for years - had my 32.5, hi-cap, 140 for donkey's years, guess it needs a service by now but still sounds good.

At 15K it should sound good in a shit house

money cannot overcome physics

once again sfb your input is greatly appreciatted.

once again sfb your input is greatly appreciatted.

it seems needed if you think expensive electronics can compensate a Karsie :o) Of course, I labour under the disadvantage of a degree in electronics so my opinions on the matter should rightly be ignored 🙂

OOOOOOOOOOOh the strain of a degree

perhaps in that case you can share your superior knowledge and enlighten us all 🙄

Apart from the fact you do not get sockets in you shithouse to power the stuff anyway

Dont know much about whats around nowdays but used to be quite keen. Been to the Bristol HiFi show a few times and always been a Naim fan. Heard a 30grand setup from them. Sounded impressive when it was a good 'Naim'recording but horrable when a std cd was played.

What really held me was the Sugden room (as above). Not the most high end but sounded like sunshine and lollypops. They must have been made using 853.

Earl

I agree about the sugden rooms at bristol they did put alot of high end kit (read expensive) to shame

sunshine and lollipops- i like that description 🙂

I started with a Nait3 and it's a great little amp.

But a test listen is the only way to decide. Ideally with the speakers you plan to use.

Apart from the fact you do not get sockets in you shithouse to power the stuff anyway

and of course running it off an extension lead would ruin the soundstage ?

sorry SFB but not any extension lead but a special one with a inline inverse flux converter connected to a rearward facing foo foo flange submersed in a bucket of weasel poo

The rubbish in rubbish out argument was propounded by Linn to sell LP12's - and was a valid one at the time. Now, as bit perfect digital files are available cheaply from a computer/nas, processors/amps/speakers are where the difference is made. I have gone for Meridian kit, all 2nd hand. The cost of 3 active speakers (7 amps, 465 watts rms in total), a processor & a 100w sub was substantially less than the new cost of the processor. The audio source is an airport express. I'm very happy, my neighbors probably less so.
I don't believe that a similar ammount spent on new kit would come even close in sound quality - so a vote for quality 2nd hand kit here.

PS Linn agree - they are stopping making disc spinners

sorry SFB but not any extension lead but a special one with a inline inverse flux converter connected to a rearward facing foo foo flange submersed in a bucket of weasel poo

NOW you're talking! Obviously you have a fine appreciation of sound engineering! Also you said "flange" s**** 🙂

Now, as bit perfect digital files are available cheaply

I was surprised no one responded to my digital speaker idea. Using laser interferometry you could measure speaker cone displacement accurately in real time and use feedback to eliminate the cable reactance/resonance/non linearity etc with effectively a mechanical D/A

My observations of the NAIM kit were that with appropriate speakers (Rather than the £6K monsters used fro the demo) in a normal room it would probably be great.

Offboard power supplies make a huge difference, enough to make me want to buy them for my Cyrus kit when cash allows.

Also their HD based system is nowhere near as good as a decent CD player - a point conceded by the chap from NAIM.

SFB, if you have nothing useful to add, why do you bother ? ADD ?

[quoteSFB, if you have nothing useful to add, why do you bother ? ADD ?

+1

Also their HD based system is nowhere near as good as a decent CD player - a point conceded by the chap from NAIM.

Naim make a few 'decent' CD players as well as their HD system.

SFB, if you have nothing useful to add, why do you bother ? ADD ?

so a suggestion for bypassing the entire paraphanalia of hifi equipment and all the possible distortions they might entail isn't useful ? Perhaps you just want pretty listening room furniture ?

music is not bits.

a guitar and piano or voice do not output 1's and 0's, they output a smooth analogue wave.

plus... bits are not all created equal. there is quite a difference between an mp3 file and an SACD or Blu Ray disc.

music is not bits.

neither is it volts or ridges on plastic...

a guitar and piano or voice do not output 1's and 0's, they output a smooth analogue wave.

smooth is easy, it's the wiggly bits that are the challenge.

there is quite a difference between an mp3 file and an SACD or Blu Ray disc.

MP3s use psychoaccoustically biased compression

Wow, a degree in electronics. You must know everything!

To the original poster. Don't post on here and ask peoples opinions. They'll just cloud your judgement and make it much more difficult to make up your own mind. You need to listen, using your equipment and your music. Go for the one which you found you enjoyed the music more. Most important thing is to relax and not try and listen for differences etc, just listen to the music...

Simon, I don't think you the laser interferometry to achieve this. Some years ago work started on the crudely conceived idea of a digital audio processing engine that would work to not only supply inverse reactive current for use in unilateral phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically synchronising cardinal grammeters. Basically, the only new principle involved is that instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of magneto- reluctance and capacitive directance.

When will I be able to buy your device SFB?

Surely the biggest issue with laser interferometry is the decoupled gamma discharge that results from the ionic metacapulam radiation. You could of course mitigate this by reversing the polarity but then you run the risk of ionic flux discharge which would have disastrous consequinces for the puman hopulation not to mention my mother in law.

When will I be able to buy your device SFB?

I'm surprised it's not already been done, since many seem so concerned about fidelity, unless manufacturers have cynically decided that an open loop, cardboard and coiled wire assembly is good enough for the clotheared majority 🙁

Most important thing is to relax and not try and listen for differences etc, just listen to the music...

sound advice indeed :o)

Ian: I thought further work on retro-encabulation had been banned after the second Helsinki incident...?

Anyway, nothing wrong with SFB's idea in principle, essentially just an extended (and rather delicate) Cartesian loop* transmitter architecture.

*Yes, a Cartesian loop [i]is[/i] a real thing.

FWIW I just picked up a very old Naim NAC 42 pre-amp for a song - close on 30 years old but sounds "non too shabby" at the moment and I just love the old chrome bumper retro looks.

*Yes, a Cartesian loop is a real thing.

"I think therefore I am"
"I think I am Descartes therefore I am Descartes"
"I think I am Descartes thinking about who I am therefore ..."
etc

nothing wrong with SFB's idea in principle

obviously not - if one were concerned about having the speaker accurately track the original signal regardless of cabling and reactance (and expence), however if it were possible to hear any difference is moot.

I may be coming in way beneath your budget but I love my NAD VISO system...

Everybody bangs on about the kit but surely the listening room/space is one of the biggest factors, spending small can reap much bigger rewards than buying better kit lots of good stuff [url= http://www.acoustics101.com/ ]here[/url]

And I dare say a decent [url= http://www.behringer.de/EN/Products/DEQ2496.aspx ]digital parametric EQ[/url] will have more impact than all sorts of hifi snake oil spending plus it's a brilliant dac to boot

I think therefore I am;
I'm pink therefore I'm Spam;
I'm yellow, therefore I'm a banana!

I'm pink therefore I'm Spam;
I'm yellow, therefore I'm a banana

if both of these are true you also have no dress sense ?

Everything is MP3 these days. why bother?

Sound is not a smooth analogue wave. It is granular at 10 to the minus 43 seconds.

Everything is MP3 these days. why bother?

I have an mp3 player for traveling. What am I listening to now? Linn LP12 / Naim 72/140 and Naim Credo's. MP3 is shite in comparison as it should be for what I paid for my main set up.

I strted with a Naim Nait 2 / Linn Kan II / Lin Axis many years ago and slowly upgraded.

As said at the outset take some familiar music, your speakers if possible and listen, buy the one YOU like. I only listened to Naim as it was on special offer due to styling changes, Kept Nait 2 for nearly 15 years and lost about £50. Replaced with s/h 72/140 and no intention of spending more. Kan's are hard to drive but the little Nait was fine.

Second Naim does hold its price well and all can be repaired if anything goes wrong. Spend what you can afford and enjoy.

As far as my ears are concerned, the only good thing Linn ever made was the Sondek. Their speakers are particularly unimpressive. Some say they are analyical in character, i'd just say thin, bass light and quite unatural, but that's just my opinion. 😉

Sugden A series make a most sumptous almost live natural sound, but refined and controlled. Expensive and need to be partnered well - think efficient speakers. If i am ever loaded enough to afford this and before my ears start filtering out half the sonic spectrum.

Roksan Caspian is a superb amp.

Audiolab 8000s is a close second, but slightly less musical than the Roksan. Quite unlike earlier Audiolab stuff which tended towards being a bit thin and dry, bit like Linn I spose.

Writing about sound is like doing a dance about a smell

On another note, my neighbour just had a pair of B&W CM9s delivered... Sonzabeech... 😥

I have an mp3 player for traveling. What am I listening to now? Linn LP12 / Naim 72/140 and Naim Credo's.

That's similar to my set-up: LP12, Naim CD3.5, 32.5/IXO/SNAPS/140x2, active Credo's. Had the set-up for years now but it still sounds great.

I have a nice Clearaudio Champion limited, Lavardin IT and some original sparks.

I have no reason to post this other than willy waving.

Ditto - Linn LP12 & OL Silver/NAC62,HICAP,NAP250/Karik CD Numerik DAC/Kans. Yes the Kans are light on bass but the Mk1's are very detailed when driven by a big amp like the NAP250. All old kit but still giving tremendous sound compared to modern stuff and all bought at bargain prices 😀

Oooh a Lavardin IT eh, very nice, very esoteric, definitey one for the cogniscenti!

I have Naim CDX2/XPS/202/200 usual HiCap and NAPSC but the more unusual bit from my system are the speakers, Shahinian Arcs. I would have had the Obelisks as a slightly used pair were also on offer for Arc money, but my 200 couldn't really drive them and I wasn't going to drop another £2.5k on a 250.2

Try and listen to a DNM pre/power - new would be way out of the budget I guess but you can occasionally pick up some older s/h stuff.

I couldn't imagine using anything else now.

I have a new Rega CD player. My hearing is rubbish due to subjecting my ears to live rock music on a very regular basis, mainly in my yoof. Everything has to be played loud.

Is there anything I can do with my ears to ensure that they will appreciate this fine piece of equipment?

Thank you so much!

transplant

[i]cinnamon_girl - Member
I have a new Rega CD player. My hearing is rubbish due to subjecting my ears to live rock music on a very regular basis, mainly in my yoof. Everything has to be played loud.

Is there anything I can do with my ears to ensure that they will appreciate this fine piece of equipment?

Thank you so much![/i]

Yes, buy a NAIM amplifier for them. 😀

No, it's a serious question! It's all very well having bling equipment but if the basics don't work, what's the point?

Pretty much like having my mid-life crisis bike - I can't ride for toffees so it doesn't make me a better rider [s]although I am having so much fun with it[/s]

Have you been for a hearing test C-g. Could be something simple that could be corrected.