Following on from here https://singletrackworld.com/forum/off-topic/compact-camera-with-zoom-500-for-landscapes-and-street-photography/#post-13677303
I didn't buy one in the end but the Sony a6000 was a strong contender for me. Quite compact, aspc, nice view finder and light. Various lens options as mirrorless. Pretty cheap second hand. Felt very nice to handle.
I went for a Fuji xf10 instead, glorious quality in an aspc compact, fixed lens. But no viewfinder which I am very much regretting. Images are delightful but AF is slow
Sony A6500 is the earliest APS-C model with IBIS, might be pushing your budget but there are some very good lenses for not much money. I have an old A5100 with the 20mm f2.8 pancake lens that fits in a pocket; if I didn't have a bigger full frame camera I could probably get by with that and a Sigma 18-50mm f2.8
I have had two of the Sony A6000 series and came away underwhelmed. I replaced them with a Nikon D5600 with the cheap 18 55 kit lens and the results are far better. The Nikon has also outlived both of them. Set on full auto, the Nikon delivers noticeably better image quality. It cost less too. I have since bought a fancier lens second hand and the results are even better. Sorry not to be of great help but the basic Nikon DSLR's make for a viable alternative.
Ha that is interesting, I had been eyeing a 5600 as a next option.
I have had two of the Sony A6000 series and came away underwhelmed. I replaced them with a Nikon D5600 with the cheap 18 55 kit lens and the results are far better. The Nikon has also outlived both of them. Set on full auto, the Nikon delivers noticeably better image quality. It cost less too. I have since bought a fancier lens second hand and the results are even better. Sorry not to be of great help but the basic Nikon DSLR's make for a viable alternative.
In what way where the Sonys underwhelming ?
the Nikon 5600 is really good value, but not in any way something I’m carrying everyday.
The LX100 is pretty pocketable, unlike most of the others. That makes a big difference to the amount of times you’ll be likely to carry it.
Another second hand bargain at mpb.com is the Fuji X-H1 body. Paired with the excellent XF18-55 f2.8/4 its as small and light as a pro quality aps-c camera gets. It’s the body I use on location when I can’t carry my medium format camera kit in.
Don’t discount a more recent high end phone like an iPhone 15 pro, the cameras on those are amazing if you’re not editing the images much printing big sizes. Guaranteed to always have it in your pocket and that’s half the battle.
There’s an A6000 in the household and whilst compact, it’s pretty old now and images straight out of camera are flat and uninspiring compared to even a phone. A bit of processing in Lightroom can sort them out a bit, particularly if shooting RAW. The kit lens is absolutely rubbish though.
I get that users want something compact but this normally comes at the expense of poor ergonomics. Handling the A6000 is horrible with tiny buttons and the terrible Sony menu system (in my opinion).
How small and compact does it need to be? If it doesn’t need to go in a pocket, I’d be inclined to go for an APS-C from Nikon or Canon or stump up for the Fuji which has proper controls. I don’t know much about M43 but it may be a good option.
In my experience the performance of the 1 inch sony sensor in the rx 100 is good. Certainly ahead of anything 20 years ago. The benefit of the slightly larger sensor in the lx 100 is better depth of field control
The canon g7x ii is what I’m looking at next or a rx 100 vii
https://www.flickr.com/gp/john_clinch/AkC5taBvbH
Here are photos from my rx 100
So no love for the Sony a6000 series.
ideally this would be pocketable. As if it isn’t easy to carry I’m not going to carry it.
@supernova that Fuji X-H1 looks good and well in budget, but not small ?
I do get that a iPhone from the last few years will take great pics, but surely not as good as a decent camera?
Panasonic s9 for full frame compactness and image quality/price/ibis but no EVF.
Sony a6700 (EVF) APS-C is okay - Sony a7c (full-frame) is not bad (EVF) too but poor for video(slow rolling shutter) and poor ibis.
Ive had loads of cameras (and use them a lot for work). But the panny s9 is the current bargain for full-frame and compactness.
Panasonic s5 is even cheaper with EVF but bulkier.
In my experience the performance of the 1 inch sony sensor in the rx 100 is good. Certainly ahead of anything 20 years ago. The benefit of the slightly larger sensor in the lx 100 is better depth of field control
The canon g7x ii is what I’m looking at next or a rx 100 vii
https://www.flickr.com/gp/john_clinch/AkC5taBvbH
Here are photos from my rx 100
great pics, thanks for sharing
I considered the canon g7x but discounted it due to fixed lense and smallish sensor. Maybe my thinking is off.
“I do get that a iPhone from the last few years will take great pics, but surely not as good as a decent camera?”
I took this a week or so ago with my iPhone.
A decent real camera will still blow away a phone / iPhone camera in every respect. Small plastic, fixed aperture lenses and tiny sensors are no match compare to a modern “proper” camera. You’re relying on computational photography to fake sharpness etc. It also guesses your processing for you. If I zoom into my iPhone shots, I see computational mush compared to my mirrorless.
Which is all absolutely fine if that’s what you want and tend to look at images on a phone screen. It’ll also be with you at all times.
If you value real image quality, aperture (depth of field) control, shutter speed control and want to learn processing of RAW images, then a modern interchangeable lens camera with decent sized sensor is what you want.
I've a Fujifilm X-T20, which is APSC and a smaller form factor than the X-H1 or even the X-T2,3,4 etc. It's an older model but I think that's as small as I'd want to go with an APSC camera. It's fine with the 16-50 XC kit lens, but I think it would feel quite unbalanced with some of the larger Fuji lenses.
The X-T20 does have WiFi, but it's quite an old camera now so it's not the best implementation, the auto focus can be a bit slow and it doesn't have IBIS. It does 4k video and has a flip out screen rather than pivoting, otherwise I'd recommend one as the image quaility is really good and it feels nice in the hand.
I really don't use mine enough.
Something like this?
I don’t know much about the Olympus cameras but they seem to be very popular.
I don’t know much about the Olympus cameras but they seem to be very popular.
Recommend looking at the "micro four nerds" YouTube channel for more in-depth look at them. I have the OM-1 Mark II and I'm very happy with it, but it's in a bit higher price bracket than the one you linked to.
Panasonic s9 for full frame compactness and image quality/price/ibis but no EVF.
Sony a6700 (EVF) APS-C is okay - Sony a7c (full-frame) is not bad (EVF) too but poor for video(slow rolling shutter) and poor ibis.
Ive had loads of cameras (and use them a lot for work). But the panny s9 is the current bargain for full-frame and compactness.
Panasonic s5 is even cheaper with EVF but bulkier.
@rone the Panasonic s9 ticks a lot of boxes, but with a lens it’s not hugely pocketable, even presumably with one of their pancake lenses. It’s also over my budget without a lense, I do notice that Panasonic have discounted this hugely this Xmas, there’s an option for the s9 with a big lens for 799, which seems amazing value.
But I’ve thought this over and pocket ability is key, otherwise I’m just not going to take it out.
it does see, that the trend is to bigger cameras now, the super compact m43 and others have dropped off now, no idea why.
I can’t justify the cost of the famously popular Fujifilm X100VI, but it ticks every box for me. So I’ve looked at this pen e-p7 from OEM systems https://explore.omsystem.com/gb/en/e-p7
this is about the size unit I’d like, ideally with a viewfinder unlike this Olympus, but I don’t know if with modern tech whether it would really make any difference?
If you want something truly pocketable, maybe just continue to use a phone. Any decent lens is probably going to restrict you sticking it in a pocket.
I tend to make photography a bit of an event combined with a walk / climb so have no issue putting it in a rucksack along with a couple of lenses and a tripod strapped to the side. For days out, where I want better than iPhone pics, I stick the camera in a padded case inside a light Alpkit rucksack. Just 1 lens and reliance on IBIS + lens stabilisation.
My advice in photography is that you need to decide what image quality you need. Then work from there
I make a Blurb book and calendar every year. So i print lots but not that big.
I now own an iPhone 14 pro. Since i moved to an iPhone 12, 3 years ago, no one can tell whether i used the main camera in my phone or an actual camera, in good light.I’d say the main camera in my phone is better image quality than my scanned slides from back in the day
My phone is my most used camera. But I still use a real camera. I mainly use the real camera for more reach. My phone has 3x zoom but that isn’t much and the quality isn’t great
If the OP wants interchangeable lenses then the micro four thirds system is great. It offers all the image quality i need. Lots of great Lens options perhaps missing a really good zoom to 300mm. Lots of good primes. The panasonic 14-140mm zoom is a marvel of size, quality and range.
Good point about printing above which is one of the most satisfying parts of photography for me. Seeing it on actual paper rather than a screen is lovely.
Excuse the rubbish iPhone pic 🙂 but am about to get this framed and hung. No way would I have taken this using an iPhone.
200% crop of the above. I can still see all the detail of texture of the grasses and trees. This is where proper lenses and decent sensors win.
Good point about printing above which is one of the most satisfying parts of photography for me. Seeing it on actual paper rather than a screen is lovely.
Excuse the rubbish iPhone pic 🙂 but am about to get this framed and hung. No way would I have taken this using an iPhone.
If you want something truly pocketable, maybe just continue to use a phone. Any decent lens is probably going to restrict you sticking it in a pocket.
I tend to make photography a bit of an event combined with a walk / climb so have no issue putting it in a rucksack along with a couple of lenses and a tripod strapped to the side. For days out, where I want better than iPhone pics, I stick the camera in a padded case inside a light Alpkit rucksack. Just 1 lens and reliance on IBIS + lens stabilisation
@north_of_the_border superb pic. I’ve had a good iPhone pro for years the photos are really good, but I want to step up from the iPhone & sometimes the phone isn’t enough, also want to print some pics out quote large. I also more than that would just like to learn / re learn photography skills.
QQ what camera was that pic taken with? Just as a reference point re quality / detail.
the Panasonic s9 ticks a lot of boxes, but with a lens it’s not hugely pocketable, even presumably with one of their pancake lenses. It’s also over my budget without a lense, I do notice that Panasonic have discounted this hugely this Xmas, there’s an option for the s9 with a big lens for 799, which seems amazing value
Yes it's not 'quite' pocketable but seen in the context of full frame it's compact. (Maybe only the sigma fp-1 is smaller.)
There are a couple of decent-ish pancake lenses coming via TTartisan and another company called SG.
However the panny 18-40 zoom is almost as small.
You just have to keep an eye on the offers I got mine with 18-40 for I think 750 or something. Absolute steel as it's a class above the compacts in discussions.
Look out for like new or open boxed ones you can get for around 600 without lens. I think the S9 came to market with really bad press compared to the Sony zv-e1 (it's equivalent.) It's never overheated unlike the zv-e1 which is impossible for video.
But I found it to be better in key areas. The Sony zv-e1 is very expensive compared.
(I've got lenses across the range so I can swap between canon, sony, red, blackmagics, Panasonic L mount / DJI. L-mount Panasonic S primes lenses are great.)
@walowiz Thanks. It was taken with my old Canon 5D mark IV and a 24-70 lens. It’s definitely not pocketable. It’s Loch Ard just outside Aberfoyle. The conditions made the scene obviously.
I’m now using a Canon R5. Smaller and lighter than the 5D but still definitely on the large side. It definitely makes it a bit of an event using it compared to an iPhone, which I like.
My other stuff is here. No iPhone pics included. A mix of Canon 7D, 5D mark III / mark IV and R5 pics. I think I’ve hidden the exif data though.
For the on system cameras, they have a good following in the macro world due to being able to fire a flashgun while focus bracketing. Instagram has folks like
-This forest floor and pb macro
I have a canon R6 (the baby brother to the R5, same size but more the consumer end than the R5) which delivers outstanding results. I stepped up from a 60d. I partially got it as it's smaller than the 60d, but as I use my old glass it requires an adaptor making it longer than the 60d.
I used to enjoy landscapes but kids dictate I pursue other avenues.
As has been said before the difference between phone sensors and camera sensors. Even printing out at 6x4 I can tell, they just don't look as good
This picture, the one with the reflection, was taken with my iphone 12, ultra wide camera. It would have been better taken in an iphone 14. Better still an actual camera
Despite my reservation my sister printed it pretty big and put one copy on her wall at home and one on the wall of her rental property. She thinks it’s great. She also printed the ruin as a present. Its over A4 and stunning. I had no idea how she got the photo. She just down loaded the 2 mega pixel version from Flickr
Not exactly what you're after but I have a bunch of older Nikon kit I need to get rid of. There's a D7000 (I think), D90 and D60, plus a few lenses. All well used. From memory the D7000 may have had a slight focus issue (common to the model) but fine using the screen and only ever a problem at wide apertures...
Not exactly what you're after but I have a bunch of older Nikon kit I need to get rid of. There's a D7000 (I think), D90 and D60, plus a few lenses. All well used. From memory the D7000 may have had a slight focus issue (common to the model) but fine using the screen and only ever a problem at wide apertures...
thanks @flyingmonkeycorps some impressive kit there, all a bit too large for what I’m after, but there was another thread where some other STWers were after some camera kit.
Been researching online and before I click buy, any reason why the below isn’t a good buy ? I know it’s not weather sealed, but that usually involves step up in size and cost. Unless I opt for the super expensive fujifilm x100.
it’s only a couple of hundred quid dearer than 2ndhand. I can’t tell if the lenses are worth having, or not. So asking the STW photography knowledge base first.
id rather get canon or fujifilm, but canon don’t really seem to do what I’m after.
Might be worth knowing Cotswold cameras are grey importers.
Up to you what you do with that info.
Clearly hits your spot price wise.
Personally I'm not mad on zoom packages you're normally just getting cheap lenses but if it works it works. It's a lot of kit for not much money.
You will still take great photos though!
(Depending on the Fuji variant you're getting a bigger sensor etc. I'm a big fan of big sensors though. I'm happy to deal with the bigger body size. I mean once you put a zoom on a body it generally makes it not pocketable.)
There's a camera set up for every price/quality situation.
Might be worth knowing Cotswold cameras are grey importers.
Up to you what you do with that info.
Clearly hits your spot price wise.
Personally I'm not mad on zoom packages you're normally just getting cheap lenses but if it works it works. It's a lot of kit for not much money.
You will still take great photos though!
(Depending on the Fuji variant you're getting a bigger sensor etc. I'm a big fan of big sensors though. I'm happy to deal with the bigger body size. I mean once you put a zoom on a body it generally makes it not pocketable.)
There's a camera set up for every price/quality situation.
didn’t know they were a grey importer. That’s a no then and a no to the zoom package and now I’ve seen the pen e-p7 it’s very plasticy, so no.
Seems like theres a big old gap in the market for something pocketable (Panasonic s9), but with an evf, and weather sealing.
what about second hand leicas?
Seems like theres a big old gap in the market for something pocketable (Panasonic s9), but with an evf, and weather sealing.
what about second hand leicas?
id love a leica (I think) but wouldn’t know where to start. Or if I could grab one in budget.
did take me down a rabbit hole of also looking at secondhand fujifilm (and to a lesser degree canon). Noticed there is above way from the smaller sensors and to generally just bigger cameras.
My niece has ond em10 iv. It’s a nice camera. You can get a weather sealed omd em5 ii for less than that used less, assuming you don’t need phase detect af. Weather sealed standard zooms are the Olympus 12-40 f2.8, 12-45 f4 and the panasonic 12-60 f2.8-f4. You could get a body and lens for under £700 from a dealer
The longer lens in that set has a good reputation, i just can’t remember anything about the smaller one
anyone help explain the difference between LUT’s and the fujifilm film simulations. They the same thing ?
I don’t want to spend ages in software editing pics, are the Fuji film things enough ? Or are they not worth the fujifilm tax 🙂
if not it’s a Panasonic gx9, but there are some good deals on Fuji xm5 that is calling to me.
LUTs are pre-made colour looks that you apply to footage that's usually been shot with very low contrast and colour in the first place (e.g. F-Log). They're recipes that make your footage look different / better / more colourful / less colourful / contrasty etc. The key thing is you have to shoot with them in mind. Unless you're really into it or shooting professionally or have some other pressing reason just use one of the Fuji footage profiles offered in camera - I recommend Eterna as an all rounder, but try the others as creative experiments.
Film simulations are similar but for stills. Key difference here is you can easily shoot Raw for stills and adjust to taste afterwards, whereas the film simulations are baked onto Jpegs. You may be able to save both on some cameras, or even post process in-camera.
Bottom line - shoot footage in Eterna, shoot stills in Raw.
Bring it on Jpeg shooting knuckle-draggers.
I use technical LUTs (look up table) all the time for video (shooting in log to get max picture information) but barely ever for stills.
Many of the LUTs for stills burn themselves in on the Panasonic s9 for example - so I've no interest on them. Shoot RAW and mess later.
(In the video world there used to transform the final image from d-log/vlog etc back to rec709. )
I guess they can be fun if you find a look/LUT you like and you enjoy the immediate result.
There's a workflow for everyone.
Just revisiting this quickly, as I couldn’t buy anything as I had a reasonably sized car bill to pay.
been offered a deal on this Panasonic DC-S5DN incl lens for 600 or a canon r7 for the same price (from a mate).
I don’t profess to know enough to figure out if good, meh, or bad. Neither are pocketable, but given up on that for now.
thanks for the info on luts, so they’re for video, I could care less about that, I just don’t want to spend ages in lightroom or whatever messing about. I’d rather be able to do this on the camera.
From personal experience the best pocketable large sensor compact I had was a Sony rx100 mk 1. Super capable, sharp lens, all the manual and automated settings you could want. Very good in low light where it was clearly image stacking (with the right settings). Good feel and materials. On the downside it was fragile - I fixed it a couple of times but finally it gave up. For your money you'd get one of the more modern versions.
My current best toy is a Fujifilm x-pro 2. My lord this is truly excellent. Brilliant image quality, interchangeable lenses. Full manual control with proper old school dials and dual analog/digital viewfinder. No image stabilisation. The film simulations are excellent provided you shoot straight to jpg. if you want to use raw and lightroom the film simulation does not apply. This camera is all metal and feels fantastic to use. With a 27mm pancake on it, it won't fit in a jeans pocket but will go in a jacket pocket. This is probably just outside you price range but other x-mount cameras are available for less.
From personal experience the best pocketable large sensor compact I had was a Sony rx100 mk 1. Super capable, sharp lens, all the manual and automated settings you could want. Very good in low light where it was clearly image stacking (with the right settings). Good feel and materials. On the downside it was fragile - I fixed it a couple of times but finally it gave up. For your money you'd get one of the more modern versions.
My current best toy is a Fujifilm x-pro 2. My lord this is truly excellent. Brilliant image quality, interchangeable lenses. Full manual control with proper old school dials and dual analog/digital viewfinder. No image stabilisation. The film simulations are excellent provided you shoot straight to jpg. if you want to use raw and lightroom the film simulation does not apply. This camera is all metal and feels fantastic to use. With a 27mm pancake on it, it won't fit in a jeans pocket but will go in a jacket pocket. This is probably just outside you price range but other x-mount cameras are available for less.
x-pro 2 looks good and holds its value well, 650 for a good used one from mpb, 800 for an excellent one ! Holy cow that s more than some of the cameras are new ! Though it does look very cool
Agreed x-pro 2 very cool, very solid and scratches the old school camera itch. It's taken over from my Nikon SLRs except where sport is concerned. I justify the used price by telling myself how much I saved not shooting film. Keep your eyes open on gumtree and marketplace - some do come up relatively cheap there.
Agreed x-pro 2 very cool, very solid and scratches the old school camera itch. It's taken over from my Nikon SLRs except where sport is concerned. I justify the used price by telling myself how much I saved not shooting film. Keep your eyes open on gumtree and marketplace - some do come up relatively cheap there.