[Closed] Heating the house intermittently

A baby would be healthier without central heating on all the time. They cope fine with being less warm than their mothers think they should be.

You can get clever room thermostats which learn how quickly a room heats up and vary the "on" time accordingly.

e.g. you set the stat to be say 18degC at 07:00. The 'stat will then turn on the heating prior to 07:00 such that the room will be at 18degC come 07:00. Conventional digital 'stats will only turn on the heating at 07:00 and take some time to reach the desired temp.

aye dress kids as you dress yourself. As for the heating depends normally about 30min but that depends how good your system is.

I just got a new fancy digital timer thermostat thingy fitted. Heating timed to come on in the morning 40 minutes before the alarm goes off, 48 minutes before i actually get up and turns off 20 minutes before i leave the flat. at 4pm it begins to warm up the flat again to 18 degrees then at 6pm it heats it up to 20 and goes off at 10pm and i go to bed about 11pm.

Yeah babies don't need hot houses. The official recommended temperature range is I think 16 to 21 degrees. Most people would consider 16 inside a house to be sodding freezing. You might like to consider one of these amazing new inventions called 'blankets' for your baby, or a related product 'warm clothes'.

They really don't give a crap.

Having storage heaters, my heating goes off rather than on in the morning 🙂

As above, you can get thermostats that 'learn' how long it takes to heat your house, so if you don't need to set to come on an hour before you get up, for example.
If you want it to be 20 deg. C at 7am, you set it to that & it will learn over the following days how early it needs to come on to achieve that.

We bought a Honeywell controller recently after some internet searching & a thread on here. I think it's called a CMT927, but this only controls the heating not the water. We didn't even think of this when we were looking as every house I've ever lived in before has had a combined heating/water controller. I just assumed they all had that functionality, but I guess with combi boilers it's not required.
We've replaced it with another Honeywell controller that does hot water too and had a wireless thermostat. It's called the Sundial RF2 Pack 2. Not fitted it yet though.....

So, this honeywell controller... how does it work? Does it effectively control individual radiators?

the cmt927 is a remote area thermostat and timer switch.

You can set 6 or so time periods and the target temperature you want within those time periods. They can differ each day or be the same for each day of the week. The temperature it is testing is the air temperature around the programme unit. You can put the programme unit anywhere - I have one in the mid point of the ground floor area to control the UFH and one in the upstairs corridor not too close to the corridor radiator to control the upstairs rads.

You can set back the unit if you go on holiday, or boost if you want it warmer until the next time session ("Party mode". Yeah baby)
You can also tell it to switch ON manually.

It sends a signal then to a relay which closes or opens a switch. That relay is connected to whatever it is you want to control in order to turn your heating on.

It may be your boiler On switch, or if like me you have a tank, then it can be connected to circulation pumps to send the hot water round your UFH or radiators (on which you have Thermostatic Radiator Valves which manage the individual radiator temperatures depending on the temperature of the air in the room in which they are fitted)

The relay switch can even be used to switch a motorised valve to open or divert hot water flows.

They're very versatile and easy to use once you realise its just a thermostatic switch with the ability to set different temperature triggers for different periods of time.

Clubber, you can get ones that control individual radiators but these are quite pricey, as the TRVs are motorised & wireless. You set the temperature and the controller will automatically adjust the TRV to get to that temperature. Most of them have zones, so you can set different areas to different temperatures.

The one I have just got is a standard 7 day controller that is wired into the boiler, but comes with a separate wireless thermostat so we can put it into the living room, rather than use the one that is currently in the hallway. We've just had a load of radiators in the house replaced and stuck new TRVs on them too, so once the new controller is in, it should just be a case of adjusting the TRVs for the individual rooms. The extra expense of a zoned system with automatic TRV control seemed it bit over the top.

I can't see us replumbing the heating for zones but it would be good to be able to control individual rooms/areas better. By the looks of it, you could use the Honeywell controller with these to get individual room control

http://www.plumbnation.co.uk/site/honeywell-hr80uk-radiator-controller/

£80 each admittedly...

Bit slow there....

Stoner said it better than me......BUT, be aware that the CMT927 doesn't do your hot water as well. You'll need a separate single channel controller to do your hot water if you have a traditional set-up.
We have a Y-Plan central heating system, and I don't think it was possible to have separate heating/water controllers without a lot of faffing around.
I think with an S-plan system it is a lot easier, as you have separate circuits for hot water & heating. With y-plan the two are not completely separate.

I am not sure if the controller we have gone for is as versatile as the CMT927, but it does what we need and is the simplest solution.

I predominantly wanted to get something that had more versatile heating modes than 2 on/off per day which are also tied into the same hot water on/offs (this is what we have now).
I also didn't want to rely on the thermostat in the hall, as it didn't seem like an ideal position for it.

Clubber, I don't think you need to replumb the system to use zones - the zones are controlled with the motorised TRVs.

This is the system we briefly looked at:

http://www.honeywelluk.com/products/Systems/Wireless/CM-Zone/

but yeah, it's pricey & we'd have needed several more TRV actuators to do it properly. I think the standard pack with 6 actuators is about £550 and we'd have needed another 4 or 5 actuators at £80 a pop.....

Having storage heaters, my heating goes off rather than on in the morning

which rocks a fat one if you are home all day, which most people aren't. It is the biggest drawback I see for storage heating - on when the house is usually empty.

What Stoner said. We have one of those Honeywell controllers and it really is a clever bit of kit. I have it set to have the house at 18 degrees at the time my alarm clock goes off. So if it's a cold night, it might come on an hour before, or if it's really mild, just 15 minutes or so.

As for babies - we keep our nursery at about 18 degrees, and Miss Ransos seems plenty warm enough. She's in a babygro and one of those baby sleeping bags.

which rocks a fat one if you are home all day, which most people aren't. It is the biggest drawback I see for storage heating - on when the house is usually empty.

We have storage heating,

RTFM!

Ours has 2 dials, one controlls how hot the bricks get, the other is a simple timer (works of the brick temperature as far as I can tell, so they cool down really slowly all day, then the vent opens and woooosh the house is warm all evening) that opens the vent at the top a predetermined time after the bricks warm up.

Also call your energy supplier and see if they do an economy 5+2 plan rather than economy 7. Basicly it warms them up overnight, then they get an extra boost mid afternoon.

I'd prefer central heating, but someone showed me some maths that showed storage heating wasn't that far behind gas on running costs, and the gap was closing over time as the cost of energy goes up but the cost of converting it to electricity stays aproximatley static, and there want a boiler to go wrong.

Also call your energy supplier and see if they do an economy 5+2 plan rather than economy 7. Basicly it warms them up overnight, then they get an extra boost mid afternoon.

That I didn't know, and it sounds suspiciously sensible, so there must be a catch :), but I may look into it. Cheers!

Most people would consider 16 inside a house to be sodding freezing

I just leave our thermostat on 15* :S Though we had a multi fuel stove that goes on on cold nights/weekends. Other than that its just a case of sticking a jumper on 😀

*Once it gets really baltic my wife pulls rank and sneaks it up to 20, it is usually a tit for tat battle of the hall thermostat then 🙂

Not had heating on yet but last year had heating on constantly and thermostat on a 18degree. Felt warmer in the house than the year before that which I was doing the same as the OP is currently doing.

Insulate the house properly?

Not really a storage heater only issue tho is it? If we all had houses built to passivhaus standards none of this would matter. But we don't.

Isn't that a bit negative and defeatist TooTall, if I can't have the absolute extreme then nothing else is worth bothering with? Proper levels of insulation doesn't have to mean Passive Haus levels. And of course it doesn't just apply to storage heaters, but if heat is being lost during the day then there are two possible solutions, increase consumption by buying more heaters or improve insulation to reduce heat loss.
As energy companies have decided to take the piss regarding charges and there is limited earning potential from pv solar. I'd say that looking towards Passive haus would be a better way of tackling the problem and saving money in the long term.

How quickly your house heats up and how long it retains heat is directly related to the OPs question. Its worth making sure you've got the basics covered with decent wall and roof insulation and if possible underfloor. Double glazing or decent draft proofing and heavy curtains all help.

I've done pretty much everything insulation wise to my house I can without getting extreme and externally cladding it and reroofing it.

Judging by the tempreture today in Lancaster I will be lighting the wood burner tonight to take the edge off the chill.

This is a question that I am being asked almost every day now, its something that you have to put a little effort in to save a bit of cash ( nothing comes free)

firstly when your heating is off it costs nothing ( i'll come back to this)

adding whizz bang controls does not save money as you have to spend it first cumalatively over an extended period you may save money.

how you use the available controls is what will deliver most bangs per buck

first know how much gas/ electricity you use , measure every week at the same time and record.. dont worry what the no.s mean just know what your base line usage is.

understand what a comfortable temperature is to set your thermostat to ( reccomended is 18 -21, but remember there just numbers on a dial or digital display they may not be the actual temperature..)

understnd that for on and off times reaching your comfortable temp will take longer if the house is colder and less if warmer. On average a decent ish boiler with decentish rads and decent ish piping should have the rads too hot to touch in circa 15 -30 mins, if you cannot feeling an increase in room temp at 30 mins something is less than ish and needs work

understand how long it takes for your comfortable room temp to become uncomfortable before setting and 'off' time i suspect a 5 degree drop would be noticable so time how long it takes for the temp to drop 5 degrees and set the off for time that length of time before you leave the property or go to bed,

if you have trvs set the rooms you live in at 3-4 the kitchen at 3 the bathroom at 4 the bedrooms at 2-3 if you have rooms you do not use set them at 1 or 'snowflake' (do not turn them off, water likes to circulate and this will prevent deposits building up, the rads will get hot but turn off much sooner than the others)

as for hot water understand what hot is you dont want to heat the water and then add cold to cool it..

advice is to set the cylinder thermostat to circa 58c this will inevitabley mean the water temp in the tank will be higher so set it using a thermometer ( still at 58) at the tap to check and adjust the thermostat on the tank accordingly ( remember they are just numbers to act as a guide on the dial not specifically the actual temperature)

an insulated tank should produce hot water from cold in less than 30 mins, understand approximately the volume of hot water you use.. in our home ( 4 beds two bathrooms one shower room) i have the hot water set on for 15 mins at 5am ( first adult leaves at 5.45) and for 10 miutes at 5pm. we never have an issue unless the daughters want to fill and empty the bath more than twice each.

to ensure that you have the minimum of issues central heating/ hot water systems like to work, so even in summer run the Ch once a week for even only 10 minutes will keep the valves working and the water circulating dont swithc of the boiler when you go on holday, boilers electric motors that are heated dont like to sit idle they refuse to restart.

bakc to the first point.. new combi boilers have inbuilt frost protection worcester bosch now proctect themselves by turning the Ch on when the internal temp of the boiler fall to 8 degrees equally worcester bosch have an eco stting whereas the boiler runs to maintain a delivery quantity of DHW 24rs 7 days a week set this button to on ( green) and save some cash.

the most important thing though is keep warm. money is important but being alive to worry about it is more important.

Called round my mate's house the other night his mrs had turned the heating up to 27° 😯

The blast when he opened the front door nearly took my eyebrows off 🙂

27 ! lolcats.

My indoor thermometer is reading 16-17 degC and I haven't felt the need to switch the heating on for the winter yet.

27deg

😯 😯 😯
😯 😯 😯
😯 😯 😯

I'd say that looking towards Passive haus would be a better way of tackling the problem and saving money in the long term.

I could not agree more. Fabric First is a mantra I fully support in housing. However, most houses are nowhere close. Due to current lifestyles, people tend to be happy with not heating a house through the day when they are (mostly) empty and having fairly rapid heating when they want it. Different to houses of a couple of hundred years ago that were usually occupied 24 hrs a day, so heating all that stone up and keeping the fire on all the time was the norm.

Not negative - just the reality of existing housing stock.

27° is not usual his mrs is one of those perpetually frozen harpies that are only happy when it's 1,000,000°

[i]Oooh I don't know how you can go out riding on a night like this it's freezing...[/i]

I've got a big old house that takes an age to warm up so in winter I have the heat set at a nice temperature for morning and evenings but keep it on a tickover the rest of the time so it never gets really cold. It might cost a bit more this way but it stops the place being damp and uncomfortable.

EDIT - and the numbers on your thermostat are just numbers. They bear little relationship to the actual temperature.

As molgrips has all ready suggested above, the skill we seem to have lost is that of dressing ourselves appropriately. How many knobbers do you see wandering about in shorts and flip flops when its 10 degrees or less outside?

Instead of attempting to heat an entire house, put a bloody jumper on!
The granny thread from a few days back reminded me that my granny never had central heating, she lit a fire to warm the room she spent most time in, and dressed appropriately when it was cold. Now we have a generation of muppets who think its just fine to crank up the heating so they can lounge about in pyjamas all day, then whimper about heating bills.

At least it will be warm in hell, if we can find someone to push us there in our handcarts..

Instead of attempting to heat an entire house, put a bloody jumper on!
The granny thread from a few days back reminded me that my granny never had central heating, she lit a fire to warm the room she spent most time in, and dressed appropriately when it was cold. Now we have a generation of muppets who think its just fine to crank up the heating so they can lounge about in pyjamas all day, then whimper about heating bills.

Yeah, people were talking about this on the radio last night and laughed when the 'expert' suggested that people should just dress appropriately for the season and put a jumper on, as if it was a completely ludicrous suggestion.

I often come home to find the other half moaning how cold the house is, wearing a t-shirt, jeans and no socks.....

Currently our house is under-used in terms of rooms and so I am turning the TRVs right down on the rooms we are not using & keeping the doors shut.

Seriously - anyone has even used their heating yet? where the hell do you all live, the North? Oh ... ah ok, I see!

Still yet to bother with mine this season, warmer clothing and a throw on the sofa to cover the wife and everyone is happy!

Currently our house is under-used in terms of rooms and so I am turning the TRVs right down on the rooms we are not using & keeping the doors shut.

Be carefull about damp.

We made that mistake last winter (electric heating, but same principle, turning them down to the * setting).

Whole room went mouldy.

So thats probably £20 saved, and cost £000's in ruined clothes, a couple of camera lenses, the bed, carpet cleaning, etc etc etc etc.

Seriously - anyone has even used their heating yet? where the hell do you all live, the North? Oh ... ah ok, I see!

Mines probably going on tonight (middlesbrough), not going abouve 9degC inthe daytime, but the sun seems to heat it up comfortable. But the mornings are getting bitter, especialy with this f*** none stop wind we seem to have at the moment, I'm aftraid to ride a bike over the moor its that blowy up here!

I've invested in some nice down tent mules and and an Alpkit down gilet to aid in this winter's central heating.

I fully uphold the dress for the season adage. Even though I now live in a modern(ish) house that's relatively easy to heat I grew up in a very drafty old house where the radiators worked in a couple of rooms, but not others. Waking up with ice on the inside of the windows was normal, and occasionally, ice forming in the glass of water next to my bed.

Modern folk - Pansies.

Ours has been on for the last week but we are in a quite exposed location and the house is old and quite draughty. Even in the middle of winter it is only ever turned up to 19deg though (unless we have our softie friend over as she always complains our house is too cold - yes it is cold by comparison because you have your heating on constantly almost all year round, so much so we find it almost unbearable).

Waking up with ice on the inside of the windows was normal

Seriously - anyone has even used their heating yet? where the hell do you all live, the North? Oh ... ah ok, I see!

Mine's on in the kitchen at the mo, but that's just to get the cider fermenting well 😀

...and while I'm ranting, heating an entire house because there is a baby the size of a baby inside!

Waking up with ice on the inside of the windows was normal

That, and curling up into a small ball on getting into bed as it was too cold to stick your legs out till it had warmed up a bit.

That, and curling up into a small ball on getting into bed as it was too cold to stick your legs out till it had warmed up a bit.

Be carefull about damp.

We made that mistake last winter (electric heating, but same principle, turning them down to the * setting).

Whole room went mouldy.

Hmmmm, yeah will bear that in mind TINAS.....thanks....

Insulating well cuts condensation which is the main source of damp. Simple things like wiping down the shower after use and not leaving saucepans simmering vigorously without a lid on help. Kids are quite resistant things. A 12 months my son spent a week in our van in Austria with overnight temperatures of -20°C. There was no heating in the van and all the tinned food froze solid. He was quite happy apart from the difficulty moving with so many layers on.

No heating yet here and 22°C. Minimum outside temperatures of about 9°C and max about 18°C today. After using the immersion heater one day at the start of last week we've been back on 100% solar hot water.

We have a ASHP which runs for 1hr in the AM and 3hrs in the PM in winter set to 19 degrees. Solar water pretty much deals with all our water needs except in middle of winter when there is a rippled controller that has an immerser. Generally the house stays warm enough (with a jumper on) through winter but we do leave the HP on sometimes at night or light the (open) fire !
Saying that, everyone that comes in says how warm it is which pretty much tells you everything you need to know about NZ house insulation - there is none. A house like ours with properly insulated walls, double glazing, solar and heat pump is quiet rare. If we get really cold we put more clothes on.
The only exception to this rule is the spa which sits at 40 degrees all year. Sorry about that.

Yep, I'd aim for 18-19 deg (e.g in the nursery) and see how it goes. To me, that's baking. To the missus, that's cold (usually). To monkey junior, probably about right.

I could be wrong, but IMO getting them accustomed to being outside, i.e all that fresh air regardless of temp (within reason), is a good way to hardy them up.

I agree with the numbers on the thermostat dial being arbortory, we have ours set to 21 but that only reaches 19 deg C on our weather station/thermometer thingy before clicking off.

With the overnight temperatures dropping to about 5 deg C the temp in the living room goes down to about 15 deg C from the 19 deg C it was when we went to bed and it takes a while to warm up again (i.e. only reaching about 17 deg C before we leave for work).

Think i'll set the heating to come on a little earlier this year and drop the temp of the hot water as mentioned above as that gets very hot (I've already reduced the amount of time the hot water is on).