[Closed] Has she given up on the Falklands now?

Surely threatening to take control of the refineries hints at being more interested in the oil in/around and under Las Malvinas than ever, no?

Surely threatening to take control of the refineries hints at being more interested in the oil in/around and under [s]Las Malvinas[/s] [b]The Falkland Islands[/b] than ever, no?

FIFY 😛

Jeesus H the rubbery-face cow really is now going drive away foreign business partners/investment isn't she.

Well, Argentina is a regional power on the up. Why shouldn't the Argentinian leader act in the national interest?

I have my own opinions on The Falklands, but I suspect cooler heads over there realise there's room to negotiate once we've got over the mutual sabre rattling rhetoric.

Jeesus H the rubbery-face cow really is now going drive away foreign business partners/investment isn't she.

Well, Argentina is a regional power on the up.

there's room to negotiate

They will have to change the Argentinian constitution first.

The Argentinian government is up to some very odd things at the moment like fiddling the national inflation statistics. All dodgy.

Well, Argentina is a regional power on the up. Why shouldn't the Argentinian leader act in the national interest?

Perhaps. But the legality of her actions are very questionable & any would-be investor in Argentina will now be thinking twice.

It seems a very short-sighted action.

When you're desperately clutching at straws to cling to power, anyone's fair game. Expect her to declare the moon an Argentine colonial outpost by this time next week

JY does the diplomatic corps lie at the heart/core of the diplomatic service? 😉

damn you and your public school boy education 😉

and of course 😳

Sorry JY - it just made me giggle!! The joke and the spelling, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.

The Argentinian government is up to some very odd things at the moment like fiddling the national inflation statistics.

Well, they wouldn't be the only government to have allowed that to happen in the last twenty years would they?

🙂

Yes but when you issue inflation-linked bonds and then fiddle the stats that's basic theft. But as you say, they wouldn't be the only....

its ok most folks would just assume it was my piss poor typing but I am happy to accept an error, on my part, for that one.

I know it is not the STW way but hey lets see if it catches on.

Is her government bancrupt? Seems to be trying to nationalise anything that looks like money, first all pensions now the oil industry.

It's almost Orwellian what they are doing with the inflation stats. They are rounding them down to whole numbers, which doesn't sound too dramatic, but cumulatively over a year the official inflation rate (linked to government pay deals, bonds etc...) is half the best inflation estimate. It's a bit more dramatic than other governments.

JY - not a chance of that, sadly!!

(p.s. when did I ever mention my type of school? The only thing I will say about that was that, actually it was so good, it was "approved" ! (for those of us of a certain age!!) ) 😉

Ernie's the expert on Argentina and on her economics and politics, he will be along soon to give the "correct" answer.

Bump for Ernie 🙂

I am guessing that a previous government sold of state assets cheap and now they want them back witout paying over the odds

Shame we can't (re)nationalise a few things in the UK - water would be a good place to start...

Expect her to declare the moon an Argentine colonial outpost by this time next week

Reckon this could be a very important event, huge amounts of Repsol are held by spanish banks which are already massively leveraged. Assuming that Repsol is told to f-off by Kirchner, Spanish banks would have to mark down their Repsol assets massively, which would almost certainly put one or two of them into insolvency.

Cue panic, flight to safety, further insolvencies and EU/IMF bailout of Spain.

Spain will be sending a flotilla of warships to defend oil platforms in the South Atlantic, No?

Choron- as the FT summarised today - Argentina loses, YPF loses and Repsol loses - its enough to make you cry!

But then again, if you force you major domestic oil company to import refined oil products and gas and then sell them at a loss to keep the punters happy, you will be alright in the end, no?

This should be interesting as the South Americans are flexing their muscles now knowing their old master is getting rather frail ... 🙄

Most Spanish Banks are already insolvent and are relying on ECB funding, don't think this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back but that will be along shortly one way or another.

When you're desperately clutching at straws to cling to power, anyone's fair game. Expect her to declare the moon an Argentine colonial outpost by this time next week

😀

She just got re-elected less than six months ago with more than [u]3 times[/u] the votes of her nearest rival - the Socialist Party candidate. Which I believe possibly makes it the greatest victory in a presidential election in Argentine history - British politicians can only dream of that level of support. She can't stand again.......[i]"desperately clutching at straws to cling to power"[/i] !

So the Conservative government of Spain doesn't like the fact that Argentina is nationalising its own natural resources, instead of leaving them in the hands of foreign privately owned companies ?.......how shocking !!!

ernie_lynch - Member

She just got re-elected less than six months ago with more than 3 times the votes of her nearest rival - the Socialist Party candidate.

hhmmm ... the voters are rather emotional lot I suspect ... 🙄

You know ... passionate, animated, hysterical ... ma ma mia ... unlike the voters here who are born into voting a particular party forever ...

While CFK may be massively popular with the people of Argentina due to her populist policies the long term outcomes of this will be very bad news for Argentina.
It's tragic that a country with so much to offer is run so badly.

Really? Owning its own natural resources bad for the country?

It's tragic that a country with so much to offer is run so badly.

Right, that's it, I'm getting the kids to boycott watching Total Wipeout as a protest.....

I wonder whether the president will start crying about "Spanish economic neo-imperialists". No thought not, only us British as imperialists. The racist.

So the Conservative government of Spain doesn't like the fact that Argentina is nationalising its own natural resources, instead of leaving them in the hands of foreign privately owned companies ?.......how shocking !!!

Actually, she was threatening to do it when the Socialists were in power last year, too. She only put it off when Spain announced restrictions on biofuel imports, which funnily enough would have a serious impact on a fair number of those voters that favoured her in the last election... I'm guessing that law will now be put into action.

Funnily enough, the majority Argentian shareholder in YPF (whose stake isn't being nationalised) is a close friend of the Kirchners.

Looking at the blowout in repsol and Argentine CDS today this could be brutal. Combine this with the recent selloff in Spanish bonds over the last week and the implications on the oil and gas and we may see a significant slide on the markets.

I would love to know how ugly the derivative counterparty risk looks, but as everything is done OTC we have no idea. While I don't think this will be the straw that breaks the camels back, this makes things tangibly worse. We are also getting closer to a point where the Spanish government will have to explicitly state their - thus far - implicit guarantee of their banks liabilities. If this happens, Spanish sovereign debt goes from 70 to 160 percent of gdp, and Spain starts to look a lot like Greece.

Choron , thats a great insight, and sounds like a real risk.

HOWEVER....the important question to answer is should I buy Argentinian red wine? Am I supporting a corrupt decaying country by doing so, or showing solidarity with the producers.
For now I will stick to chilean pinotage until we can get a STW agreement on Argie plonk.

the important question to answer is should I buy Argentinian red wine?

The answer to your question is yes - if you want to help European car manufacturers.

Argentina does things differently and sees trade as a two way traffic, so for example if a European company wants to import something then they have to export something else. Which has led to a situation whereby a company such as Mercedes-Benz needs to export Argentine wine in order to be able to import their vehicles into Argentina. So buy Argentine wine if you want to help German car manufacturers, otherwise the choice is simply down to you.

BTW protectionism is a central feature of Peronism, and Cristina Kirchner is very much a Peronist. For the record I'm not personally a Peronist, far from it - I'm actually very hostile to Peronism, but I am a very strong supporter of Cristina Kirchner. Which I know all sounds very contradictory but it stems from a realistic and pragmatic commitment to the greater good.

HAH!

So is that why Aldi (german supermarket) has nice Argentinian wine for super bargain prices? Its to support Mercedes and VW exporting to their country! Well you learn something every day. Doesn't harm me if Germany exports to South America...so on with the plonk.

So is that why Aldi (german supermarket) has nice Argentinian wine for super bargain prices?

Very likely imo.

[url= http://investba.com/2011/03/porsche-argentina-carreras-cayennes/ ]Porsche Argentina Will Trade Carreras and Cayennes for Cabernet Franc[/url]

Argentina may well have huge reserves of hydrocarbons but to get at them requires billions of dollars of investment year after year, money the Argentine state just doesnt have and can't borrow. Quite apart from being illegal, grabbing a private asset is utter madness. Singapore has been a success because foreign investors in Asia know that if they set themselves up there they will enjoy the full protection of an efficient and impartial legal system. Kirchner is making Argentina look like a place to avoid and it is the population that will suffer.

......it is the population that will suffer.

It's an interesting fact that opposition to the Kirchners has always focused almost solely on predictions. Ever since Nestor and Cristina Kirchner dramatically changed the economic policies of Argentina their opponents, at home and abroad, have predicted dire consequences.

You would think that after 10 years of Kirchner presidency their opponents, who incidentally totally screwed the Argentine economy, would start focusing on criticising the Kirchner's record as presidents, after all, ten years is a very long time - specially in politics.

It is this Kirchner presidency record which the Argentine electorate focuses on, and not least in reference to previous presidencies which followed very different economic policies. And it is this past record which explains why Cristina Kirchner was the first choice of the majority of voters less than 6 months ago. A quite remarkable feat in a crises-ridden world where economic turmoil has led to incumbent rulers being comprehensively rejected by their electorates, and so few people have any faith in their governments.

In the case of Argentina it's not a discredited economic model - that's already been rejected, but one which after 10 years now receives substantial credit from ordinary Argentines. So those who despise Cristina Kirchner for changing the economic balances are reduced to simply predicting dire consequences - as they always have.

a realistic and pragmatic commitment to the greater good

Has Argentina not seen the introduction of radical policies that stressed the importance of the greater good before Ernie?

[img] [/img]

Eh ? What are you on about Zulu-Eleven ?

Why have you posted a collage of aging passport photos after asking me a completely pointless and inane question ?

Or is this as I suspect yet another example of you not really knowing why you posted something ?

Seriously fella, you can be really bizarre sometimes when you can't think of anything constructive to say 😕

Don't really know anything about this, but the obvious questions to me seems to be; what exactly do the argentine people get from Repsol owning the resourses? And will nationalising these assets bring more wealth to the people?

Why have you posted a collage of aging passport photos

Maybe you don't know your Argentinian political history quite as well as you thought, Eh Ernie 🙄

Is that an Argentina where's wally?

Maybe you don't know your Argentinian political history quite as well as you thought, Eh Ernie 🙄

I have never thought that I knew Argentine political history particularly well, why would I think that ?

I do know a little bit about it though. But no, I can't recognise a single face in any of those photos - presumably you think I should recognise a few faces ?

Since they are rather small and of poor quality why don't you spit it out and say who they are and what your point is ?

Or are you still struggling to remember/figure out the point which you were trying to make ?

Why would you recognise any of them Ernie, Nobody recognises them any more, nobody knows what they look like or where they are, its as if they [i]disappeared[/i]

and if you don't know the significance of that word, and what happened to those people and their families in the name of [i]the greater good[/i] then I'd suggest you go and read up a little before pontificating on popularist politics in South America...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_War#The_Disappeared_held_under_PEN

I wonder how many of the Falkland Islanders would have conveniently "disappeared" if we hadn't defended them. Thank god we did.

Why would you recognise any of them Ernie, Nobody recognises them any more, nobody knows what they look like or where they are, its as if they disappeared

So they are the Disappeared then. Why didn't you say that - did you think I knew some of them personally and would recognise them from their photos ?

I suspected that it might be the Disappeared but since I didn't know any of them personally I couldn't be sure. Plus as the Disappeared has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the topic being discussed, I thought it would be too idiotic for you post a picture of them - obviously not.

I now see that you are holding Cristina Kirchner responsible for the Disappeared - the victims of an extreme right-wing government which was backed by Washington. Or at least suggesting that she is no better.

I can't think of a polite way of saying this Zulu-Eleven but you really are a complete idiot mate.

I wonder how many of the Falkland Islanders would have conveniently "disappeared" if we hadn't defended them. Thank god we did.

what exactly do the argentine people get from Repsol owning the resourses?

And will nationalising these assets bring more wealth to the people?

I now see that you are holding Cristina Kirchner responsible for the Disappeared - the victims of an extreme right-wing government which was backed by Washington. Or at least suggesting that she is no better.

based on the way the Kirchner regimes have treated the indigenous peoples, yep she is no better

Sorry Ernie - you were telling us about how wonderful the radical politics of 'the greater good' was

Thought it might be worth reminding you just where 'the greater good' took Argentina a few years ago.

Funny that the Kirchner dynasty has brought so few of those responsible to justice, how former members of the FFAA who committed crimes against humanity during the 1970s remain free, and how Julio Lopez went missing after giving evidence against the former director of police...

But, go on, keep telling us how Kirchners economic miracle has transformed the country, some of us read wider than the pages of Socialist Worker, and instead see the words of the Archbishop of Buenos Aires

[i]"there are many people all around us who are forced to live as though during Lent all year, without the possibility of a glimpse of Easter. It is now part of the everyday scenery to see children and adults going through the garbage in search of something to alleviate their hunger or the cold. Selfishness, dishonesty, and indifference condemn many to a life of involuntary fasting and obligatory penance throughout the whole year... new faces of the poor... the new excluded: displaced... disappeared... victims of exclusion... large groups of unemployed people... the people that live in the streets of the large metropolises... campesinos without land."[/i]

based on the way the Kirchner regimes have treated the indigenous peoples, yep she is no better

Nestor and Cristina Kirchner have massacred the indigenous peoples on par with what the right-wing military junta did ?

This is a very serious allegation and it doesn't appear to be making the news. Where do you get your information from big and daft ?

Zulu-Eleven - Member

Sorry Ernie - you were telling us about how wonderful the radical politics of 'the greater good' was

Thought it might be worth reminding you just where 'the greater good' took Argentina a few years ago.

Funny that the Kirchner dynasty has brought so few of those responsible to justice, how former members of the FFAA who committed crimes against humanity during the 1970s remain free, and how Julio Lopez went missing after giving evidence against the former director of police...

But, go on, keep telling us how Kirchners economic miracle has transformed the country, some of us read wider than the pages of Socialist Worker, and instead see the words of the Archbishop of Buenos Aires

"there are many people all around us who are forced to live as though during Lent all year, without the possibility of a glimpse of Easter. It is now part of the everyday scenery to see children and adults going through the garbage in search of something to alleviate their hunger or the cold. Selfishness, dishonesty, and indifference condemn many to a life of involuntary fasting and obligatory penance throughout the whole year... new faces of the poor... the new excluded: displaced... disappeared... victims of exclusion... large groups of unemployed people... the people that live in the streets of the large metropolises... campesinos without land."

Don't you ever get embarrassed coming out with such bollox ? Do you have no shame ?

don simon, I'm sure the rest of the UK was involved in those invasions, conquests and LIBERATIONS too not just us English 🙂

Only after they too had been [i]incorporated[/i] into the UK. 😉

Was the military junta voted in?

Love the way you cast things as Bollox Ernie

[b]exactly[/b] which of the points I made do you dispute?

former members of the FFAA being free - is that bollox?

Has Jorge Julio López been found?

Did the Archbishop of BA not say that? I'd suggest that the Archbishop knows whats happening in his country better than a London dwelling faux-revolutionary 😉

C'mon - which bit of my comment was bollox - or are you just dismissing it as such because it was a little too close to the bone ?

I see Kirchners still refusing to accept the Rincón Bomba massacre as taking place - and the history taught in the local schools overlooks half the aboriginal race being wiped out... One would have thought that she'd be all for the truth.

[b]Pwned ![/b]

Well Ernie it was pretty obvious to me that was a picture of The Disappeared. Sort of an infamous image.

Argentina certainly has an odd goverment at the moment although in no way like the 1970s.

It's real difficult country for external companies to do business with/in you can see why they have so many economic woes.

Nestor and Cristina Kirchner have massacred the indigenous peoples on par with what the right-wing military junta did ?

how do you grade them? do you base it on numbers? 10's, 100's, 1000's, 10,000's etc? Or do you have another scale?

Zulu-Eleven - Member

Love the way you cast things as Bollox Ernie

exactly which of the points I made do you dispute?

former members of the FFAA being free - is that bollox?

Has Jorge Julio López been found?

Did the Archbishop of BA not say that? I'd suggest that the Archbishop knows whats happening in his country better than a London dwelling faux-revolutionary

C'mon - which bit of my comment was bollox - or are you just dismissing it as such because it was a little too close to the bone ?

Pwned !

A can't be bothered to argue with a lying idiot who makes nasty and highly offensive comparisons between a presidency which has slashed poverty and unemployment, scrapped immunity from prosecution for former members of the military, and overwhelmingly won elections, with a right-wing Washington backed military dictatorship which tortured and murdered thousands of its own citizens - most of whom were members of the current president's peronist movement.

Sorry, I thought you'd claimed what I said was Bollox - now you're claiming that its nasty and offensive instead?

So, I'll ask again

Which bit of what I said was Bollox?

Because you sort of seem to be avoiding the issue and relying on personal insults instead 🙄

Keep on thread girls and stop hurling insults. 🙄

Because you sort of seem to be avoiding the issue and relying on personal insults instead

Listen mate, you might think it's just "amusing" banter to tell offensive lies, but the comedic value of that is lost on me.

Can someone just ban Zulu-Eleven for being a Troll?

OK Ernie - I've asked you repeatedly to tell me specifically which of the comments I've made you're challenging as bollox, you've not done so.

Now you're calling them offensive lies - which comments specifically are offensive lies please?

Less of the throwing insults and calling people names please, just specify which comments you are calling lies and substantiate why!

Face it - Argentina is broke, the Government had been fiddling the figures, they've been stealing pensions and other shenanigans, and now they are ooutright pinching money to keep the circus afloat.