[Closed] Halal Meat

dedicated a section of the meat fridge to Halal Meat

So what's her problem ?

Tell the narrow-minded, racist, bigot, that there's no vegetarian food in the Halal section of the meat fridge.

Sorted 8)

Racist pig.!

Tell the narrow-minded, racist, bigot,...........

So it's all about racism and there are no animal welfare issues ? I don't think that you've read the post properly.

To be fair though the way they slaughter animals in the name of "religion" is ****ing cruel ( is that a jihad coming my way 😆 )

So it's all about racism and there are no animal welfare issues ?

No, I simply threw in the racist insult to sound more offensive.

If it's all down to 'animal welfare issues' why was she still shopping in Asda when they were selling meat ?

I was under the impression that most of it was just "blessed" rather than using the full on traditional methods?

An interesting issue as it all surely depends on subjective views of whose rights are more 'important': the sheep/cow's, the Jewish or Islamic communities or the (easily upset) vegetarians.....hmmm, people or animals who should we care about more???*

*surely this is a no-brainer?

so that the public can decide whether or not they want to buy food from animals that have bled to death

As oppose to buying food from animals that were electrocuted then bled to death?

Unless she is a vegan, she is in a bit of a glass house on this.

Would you be rather bled to death or shot? I think she has a point and she isn't a racist.

Did anybody else hear that? not sure, but I think it was a can of (non-denominational) worms being opened up.

All slaughtered food animals bleed to death - its the lack of pre-stunning that differentiates Halal and Jewish slaughter

At the end of the day she is an individual and entitled to her own views and can decide where she draws the line and takes action on any given issue.

Halal Puffin anyone?

Racist pig.!

Half wit!

[i]At the end of the day she is an individual and entitled to her own views and can decide where she draws the line and takes action on any given issue[/i]. ..or shops

Ritually slaughtered, which involves having its throat cut then using the thrashing of the still conscious animal to force the blood out of its body or bolt through the brain?

Two minutes or seconds, hmmm....

Then again how many meat eaters who are so agast at the concept of Halal butchering have ever actually killed and eaten an animal themselves? Pretty daft being judgemental when all your meat comes in nice little packages from the supermarket.

Asda have always sold eggs and meat products which are produced using 'factory farming methods'. This involves a lifetime of cruelty for the poor creatures concerned.

Despite that, apparently trailmonkey's mother-in-law had no problem shopping at Asda. However, she now wants to stop shopping at Asda because she is concerned about a creature's last remaining few minutes of life.

It sounds to me, like a mixture of hypocrisy and bigotry.

I don't eat meat btw, and neither am I a muslim.

actually killed and eaten an animal themselves?

I have with fish (killed, gutted, cleaned) but not meat. Probably only because it is easier to go out and fish for your own food than it is to catch wild bulls/pigs/chicken...

Puffin...

actually killed and eaten an animal themselves?

Kill it and grill it!

Rabbit, deer, pheasant, duck, pigeon, fishes and more.

There is very little difference between Halal/Kosher methods of slaughter and that used in an ordinary slaughterhouse.

All meat passed fit for human consumption in the UK has to be bled to death in order to rapidly rmove the toxins that are produced at the moment of death. The stunning of the animal is for the benefit of the slaughterman, not the animal.
A well cut throat will cause the animal to pass out fairly rapidly anyway.

It's not has it been bled to death - that's all animals, it's has it been stunned or not? Usually Halal and Kosher is not stunned, therefore aware of what is going on, however, this appears to be open to some interpretation. One of the bigger Halal chicken plants (certainley used to) lightly stun the birds - the idea is that if it can make an absolutely full recovery from the electrocution and live a happy life thereafter with no side effects then it counts as Halal. Having not read the relevant sections of the Big Book of Rules, I couldn't comment on the that. But in practice it meant that watching the birds coming down the line, only about 1 in 10 weren't stunned.
My slightly sick sense of humor meant I found it almost amusing that there was 2 blokes stood there dispatching the birds at an impressive rate, only pausing to wash their visors, whilst some bloke stood next to them praying! That was his job, stand on the kill line for 6 hours a day praying for the souls of the chickens as they shot by at 6 a minute.
(This factory supplied most, if not all the supermarkets at the time).

"[i]Asda have always sold eggs and meat products which are produced using 'factory farming methods'. This involves a lifetime of cruelty for the poor creatures concerned.

Despite that, apparently trailmonkey's mother-in-law had no problem shopping at Asda. However, she now wants to stop shopping at Asda because she is concerned about a creature's last remaining few minutes of life.
[/i]"

Exactly what I was thinking.

Just rabbit and pigeon. Oh, once tried eating a pike that I'd caught - to be honest, it wasnt a situation I'd want to find myself in again.

Would you be rather bled to death or shot?

Not sure. Possibly bled to death.

We are talking about animals whose creation we arrange simply because we want to kill and eat them. Everything that happens to them is to advance the objective of getting bits of them onto someone's plate. As a result the vast majority of the meat we eat comes from creatures which have (judged in human terms anyway) pretty sad lives. We treat meat animals purely as means and not as ends in themselves.

It is difficult then to see the moral consistency in a position that says you can treat an animal in that way during its life, but the precise way in which it dies has a moral significance.

Instinctively, I also plain don't believe that the animal has a preference. If the beasts we're talking about have enough sense in their heads to be worth worrying about their feelings, I reckon the whole "being taken to the abattoir" thing is quite upsetting for them, and I reckon they catch on in a dim sort of way what's happening to them and don't much like it. There is a view that "humane" slaughtering techniques actually hurt like a hell, and a view that halal techniques don't hurt as much as one might expect. I can't judge whether any of it is correct and don't really have much empathy with cattle to start with so I find it hard to get much feel for what the experience is like if you have the brain of a cow.

Given all that, I wouldn't personally worry too much about there being halal meat in Asda. Ho hum.

Is this about (a)animal welfare, (b)racism or (c)how you'd rather be killed?
If it's a, where does she think 'meat' comes from in the first bloody place? If it's b, the OP may have pointed us in that direction by describing his mother in law as having 'a rather narrow world view'.
If its c, I think I'd rather be force fed pies until my liver explodes (Yorkshire fois gras anybody ?), or bummed off a tramp - cant make my mind up, to be honest.

Would you be rather bled to death or shot?

Not sure. Possibly bled to death.

If we assume the shooter is efficient then death from shooting would be instantaneous.
In contrast regardless of where the incision is made we can assume the victim is aware for a varying amount of time that death through blood loss was inevitable.
Animals may not be sufficiently sophisticated to understand that bleeding would lead to death (even if we assume the incision is painless which it is unlikely to be) however humans would.
Given this varying period of what I would imagine is the most terrifying, harrowing and ultimately final moments of ones life. Why would you choose bleeding to death over being shot?

Why would you choose bleeding to death over being shot?

Because I'm not convinced that being shot is more painless than bleeding to death.

EDIT : I reckon I might choose to cut my wrists as a way of ending my life, rather than a bullet to the head. Although I haven't given the problem much thought.

thats why my plan is to grow meat in huge tanks complete with bones, circulatory system, immune system etc but no nerves or brain

surely that should appease all animal welfare issues (of course would have to be a lot of GMing going but the luddites will get over that)

Why would you choose bleeding to death over being shot?

Because I'm not convinced that being shot is more painless that bleeding to death.

Are you saying that when a person is shot,(and medical science tells us that brain stem function is lost immediately, or at least in such a short enough period to make it immeasurable in terms of human consciousness) then in practical terms you choose a method that would almost certainly at least cause the pain of the incision, not to mention the inevitable pain of multiple organ failure and psychological terror?
Assuming again the shooter is efficient.

[i]actually killed and eaten an animal themselves? [/i]

Rabbit, Duck, Pigeon, Pheasant, Grouse, Partridge, Hare and yes fish.

She's entitled to her own beliefs but I wonder how long it lasts before she sneaks in for some veggies.

I'm sorry to sound smug, but getting bummed off a tramp's sounding better by the minute now, isnt it?

anyone on here watch the kill it, cook it, eat it program. After watching that I am a committed meatatrian.

The animals didn't suffer, and to tell the truth within fractions of a seconds they were stunned and wouldn't have known what was going on.

Yes they to wait in line, however how it was handled was humane and minimized stress on the animals, and I was surprised at just how much the butcher could tell from the carcass about how it was killed (ie: if it has been over stunned, if they had killed it quickly etc).

Even some of the more reasonable vegetarians/vegans mentioned that *if* that is how all slaughterhouses function then if the animals had to be killed for food, than that is how it should be done.

No, I simply threw in the racist insult to sound more offensive.

Which is exactly the same trap RudeBoy fell into getting him banned.

This post is an obvious troll, however...

If I were a hostage in Iraq and about to meet my maker at the end of a blade I would definitely want to be pre-stunned.
I once, very-stupidly, watched an Al-Qaeda beheading video and it's not quick or painless. Halal is medieval.

I think it's hilarious how various celebrity chefs have drummed animal welfare down our necks whilst totally side stepping halal and similar methods of slaughter.

I've killed allsorts, some with my hands. Never for fun (or sport) mind and I certainly didn't enjoy it. Always in the quickest way possible.
I wish I could go veggie.

Are you saying that ........

I'm saying that I don't know.

The thought of slowly becoming weaker as the life drains away from my body as I bleed, doesn't sound particularly more horrific than a bullet lodged in my brain.

Personally, I think I would rather be aware that I was dying than it happening instantly without my knowledge. After all, dying is a big deal - it only happens once in your lifetime, so I don't think I would want to miss it.

Of course none of this applies to animals.

How on earth does "medical science" measure how much it hurts to be shot dead? 😯 I share ernie's scepticism.

If you ask people (and presumably cows) "shot, bled or neither?" you're going to get a very heavy take-up for "neither".

If you ask factory farmed cows "shot or bled?" there must be a considerable risk that they are going to reply "[b]WTF[/b] is this, some sort of [i]sick joke[/i]? I've been kept for 2 years in a barn full of shit being fed hormones and bran and wading around ankle deep in slurry. Do you think I give a monkey's toss one way or the other? I have no certain beliefs about what death feels like, or even [u]involves[/u] in a metaphysical sense, so just get on with it. Do whatever suits [i]you[/i] best and stop being such a self-righteous hypocritical fanny! Moo."

I'm a meat eater. I f*cking love it. I'm also acutely aware that the animals didn't die in their sleep on a huge silk pillow.

Putting myself in the position of the animal I can't say I have a real clear preference between being hung upside down and having my throat slit or being hung upside down, electrocuted, then having my throat slit.

As was mentioned above, unless you're a vegan, you can't really complain about any particular method of killing animals as they're all pretty brutal.

The other night I had a blazing row with the wife, who's suddenly decided she's vegatarian and was disgusted at scenes on the Jamie Oliver programme. I told her to go into her wardrobe and throw out all her boots, shoes, belts and bags if she feels so strongly about the ethical treatment of animals.

Then I punched her in the ovaries.

How on earth does "medical science" measure how much it hurts to be shot dead? I share ernie's scepticism.

Medical science tells us pain is none existent in the shooting scenario I painted. Or are you saying you suspect there may be a degree of pain involved?
One thing is for sure bleeding to death would cause at least the physiological stress I mentioned and almost certainly physical pain also.

The rest of your post is immaterial as my point is addressed specifically at Ernie's comment relating to his own choice.

[i]Then I punched her in the ovaries. [/i]
did you stun her with an electric charge first?

[i]Medical science tells us[/i]

So you've said. How does it actually know? I'm genuinely curious. Getting people to fill out the questionnaire must be pretty tricky. 🙂

Groan. More shite copied straight from the BNP website. "my mother-in-law said + made up racist slur with some other issues thrown in to justify debate". Be more cynical please people !!

Medical science tells us

So you've said. How does it actually know? I'm genuinely curious. Getting people to fill out the questionnaire must be pretty tricky.

Given the grim choice I know which one I would choose. Look on the bright side with your skepticism and Ernie's choice you could at least fill out the questionnaire while you waited! 😆

.....Ernie's comment relating to his own choice.

Yes, but let's no forget that I said I wasn't sure what would be preferable.

Although ....... I'm reminded of that famous quote from Che Guevara (and the last words he ever uttered) :

[i]"I know you are here to kill me. Shoot, coward, you are only going to kill a man."[/i]

.

So on reflection ........... I'll go for the bullet 8)

.......... will I be allowed a 'last cigar' please ?

Maybe they should have slit Che's throat then and let him slowly bleed to death 🙄

More shite copied straight from the BNP

Eh ? am I reading that wrong, or are you suggesting that trailmonkey is a racist/BNP supporter ? 😯

You'll struggle to find someone more anti-BNP than trailmonkey.

Don't eat that much meat anyway, but I can't imagine that Halal is much worse than trad. methods of butchery.

About the pain though, I can remember Alex Zanardi saying of the crash that amputated both his legs above the knee and resulted in almost fatal loss of blood, that he felt little or no pain, which is about the only thing I can think of that comes close to bleeding to death

Then I punched her in the ovaries.

Is that like 'kicking her back doors in' ?

Groan. More shite copied straight from the BNP website. "my mother-in-law said + made up racist slur with some other issues thrown in to justify debate". Be more cynical please people !!

If by that you are insinuating that I am from the BNP then you really couldn't be a whole lot further from the truth. The story is 100% real and my question that there may be more to the situation than at first seems, is genuine.
Your attempt to look wise has in fact made you look as narrow minded as the type of people that you hope to condemn. Good work.

As for those with something above key stage 2 to contribute, I think I agree with Che. If it was any big deal to worry about animal welfare then a rich tradition of factory farm produce should be enough to keep her out of all the major supermarkets. On the question of whether Halal slaughter is less humane than stunning, I feel that it is but let's face is, at that point death is probably an end to the suffering.

I see where the OP is coming from. He's not too bothered about the boycotting of Asda, just that Halal meat might not be slaughtered humanely, yes?

To that end I pretty much agree with him. I wouldn't eat it on principal either.
I've stopped buying as much intensively farmed meat as I can already since I learned how it was treated. I'm not bothered what the 'reality' of it is, but I've made my choice

(and I've caught killed and eaten my own fish, and helped gut birds my dad shot too)

Is there any sort of Halal farming system or does anything go up untill the point of slaughter?

Is there any sort of Halal farming system

I've always known that cruelty to animals is considered 'sinful' to Muslims (although it doesn't mean of course that it doesn't go on) but it would appear that this extends to 'factory farming' :

[i]Islamic law says that in order for meat to be considered halal, very specific procedures must be followed. Muhammad forbade “the beating or the branding of animals” and also forbade “cutting off animals' tails and other mutilations.” A person must recite the name of Allah over the animal before it is killed, and the animal's throat must be cut in order to ensure a quick and relatively painless death. [b]Factory farms, which employ all varieties of inhumane methods for raising and slaughtering animals, do not comply with these standards[/b]. Furthermore, Muslims are not permitted to eat carnivorous animals, yet many factory farms feed animal remains to livestock. [/i]

http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j28/islamic-veg.asp

Race isn't the issue here, stupidity is. Believing that some omnipotent being somehow commanded that unless your dinner bled to death it's somehow unclean is frankly an attitude that belongs in the dark ages.

Religion. is. such. crap.

Sorry, but if stunning the animal makes the slaughter that little bit less unpleasant, then not doing it because [God / Allah / Tooth Fairy/ Flying Spaghetti Monster] is unacceptable.

If I knew I was going to have my throat cut, I'd be happier with a stun gun first than someone chanting "Allah!" and waving the knife around in front of me.

A chef friend of mine buys halal meat as she reckons that the quality of the meat is the best she can buy. Makes you think, eh?
I think that most people in the UK have little idea how the small plastic wrapped pieces of "quality" protein with added salt and water get onto the supermarket shelves and are usually pretty disturbed by any mention of the industrial processes involved.

In fairness aP, the best quality meat in that area may well be from a halal source. The best quality meat in my area may be from a catholic owned slaughter house or butcher. Doesn't really prove much.