[Closed] Good coffee at home.

Any suggestions as to what to look for that’ll not mean the beans go off?

A decent opaque airtight container.
Don't store it by your oven.
Grind as required.

Fridge or freeze if you see fit but accept you'll be told either or both are bad no proof will be offered, though maybe some misconceptions might be.

Air scape coffee containers will help keep the beans decent. I get through a 350g bag every 2 weeks at 1 to 2 coffees a day.

As for actually producing decent coffee with machines and grinders, that's a massive rabbit hole that gets brought up every other week on here 🙂

I've jot a Jura - superb machine, pricey, but well worth it if you're a bit of an aficionado!
Jura

However, i also have a Bialetti Moka pot that does really good espresso and they are fabulous value!
Bialetti

I buy my coffee from Exchange Coffee.....they have an absurdly good range!
Exchange Coffee

With regards to keeping it fresh - i've good things about what @toby1 suggests.

Get stuck in!!! 🙂

Any suggestions as to what to look for that’ll not mean the beans go off?

Beans don't really go off - theres a time when they are at their best - freshly roasted and freshly ground theres more intesteding flavours are most present on top of the flavour of 'coffee' . All that happens with time is you lose some of those best bits but the coffee doesn't go bad, it just becomes more ordinary.

If you want something better than capsules then don't let concerns about 'freshness' put you off buying real coffee. When stuff is at its freshest, it can be amazing (if you've bought beans you really like and do something good with them), gradually it'll become good and at worst it'll be OK. OK coffee some of the time is a worthwhile price to pay for also having amazing coffee some of the time.

I've got a Rancilio Silvia espresso machine but using the V60 filter more often. They're cheap, but make really nice coffee and a decent grinder and goose-necked kettle make the difference.

There's some decent grinders and decent price here https://www.hasbean.co.uk/collections/grinders

I usually get beans from Union Roasting, which are great - but tried some beans from Plot recently and they were even better (but spendy).

Also op, this is going to sound like a dig and it's really not intended to be but...

Based on my limited experience of the dolce gusto machines you may also find you can get what you're after from a different pod machine which gets rid of any issues with freshness and consistency.

Nespresso IMO, makes a much better espresso than dolce gusto if that's what you're drinking. The strength of the DG machines is fancy espresso based coffees and other stuff,for basic espresso it's not a great pod solution for cappuccino it's pretty good and for gingerbread latte it's laps and bounds ahead of the standard Nespresso machines.

Now I won't tell you Nespresso is great coffee, but it is, time and again a 6.5 to 7 out of ten espresso, never better never worse.

With a reasonable grinder and a reasonable espresso machine, coupled with some good coffee you'll be able to produce a fantastic 10 out 10 espresso, you'll also be able to spend a fortune and get it completely wrong making a vile cup from anything from a few pence to a quid or mores worth of beans.

Ok, so noting all the above, does ground coffee go stale quicker than beans?
Or to ask another way, do I need to buy a grinder as well as an espresso machine?

Get a well regarded bean-to-cup machine like the STW favourite Delonghi Magnifica. I probably put a mug worth of beans in the hopper once a week, the rest of the bag stays sealed (the online places that post out fresh beans normally do them in 250g re-sealable bags)

I'm just getting to the end of a 1kg bag I bought when lockdown first hit and its only folded over with a clothes peg, and 3 months later I'm not noticing any difference. Except that it came from Coffeelink and I don't think its as good as the Pact beans I normally get.

I love my Moka pot - doesn't take up much space. Also got a Dolce Gusto for a quick half decent coffee (running in from the shed before a skype meeting).

Re it lasting, freshly roasted whole beans will last a good month pretty much at their best in the bag, longer with a small loss in quality you might not notice, probably longer again in an airscape or similar, and as long as you want in the freezer. And you can grind them straight out the freezer. So I would just freeze them and not sweat it but in any case you're using the bag in the month at an espresso and a bit a day. I use an airscape and don't worry about it, unless I buy a big quantity in which case I freeze em. That's to go in a proper espresso machine, which would be the most sensitive to badly stored beans I guess.

Grinding fresh is far and away better than pre-ground, whatever your brew method. With beans from a decent roaster. I think you'd notice given what you've said. If you buy a proper espresso machine, it probably won't even work properly without you being able to adjust the grinder.

Re brew method, depends what you want and what you want to spend. V60 for a fiver, stove top for not much, proper espresso for a couple of hundred 2nd hand up to God knows how much. Vs pretend espresso machines I'd probably stick with V60 myself or stove top.

Just to add to luket's post above, I definitely agree that good beans ground fresh at the right grind level are the key to getting a good coffee, so that's where money is best spent.

You can get good coffee from various brew methods. V60 and aeropress are both cheap (I struggled with the aeropress but lots of people swear by them - worth considering if you want shorter espresso style drinks).

A decent espresso machine is a big outlay (and even then, some - like my Rancilio - are pretty inconsistent so it can be great or not-so-great). Nespresso machines are fine if you don't want the faff and just want consistent decent coffee, but it'll never be as good as the coffee from a good shop.

I buy coffee beans from the local roaster in 250g bags.  As said above, my experience is they don't go off that much in the time it takes to use them. I stick a couple of days supply in the hopper (I have a Sage with a built in grinder) and the rest in an airtight jar we used originally to make sloe gin.

No room in our freezer for coffee so jar lives in a cupboard.  Only me that drinks it and I go through about a bag a week at the mo.

The whole 'what machine' thing. Recommend a search on here.

Hmm - if you use 12-15g per cup, that's about 20 cups from a 250g bag. Two people in our household, so 10 each - that's 5 days at 2 cups a day. No time to go off 🙂

Hardware: DeLonghi Magnafica.

Beanware: Coffee Masters Super Crema Espresso Coffee Beans

Store beans in an airtight container in a cool dark place or fridge if you have room.

V60 and aeropress are both cheap (I struggled with the aeropress but lots of people swear by them – worth considering if you want shorter espresso style drinks)

I've had manual espresso machines in the past, but generally we've been happiest using the Aeropress. It doesn't 'do' espresso so much as provide a concentrated brew (the pressure isn't enough for an espresso), so if you're after 'proper' espresso look elsewhere. However, if you're after decent filter-style coffee the Aeropress is great. If you're drinking with milk, you can just make the concentrated brew and add milk - if black, just top up with water.

We get beans by the kilo - generally one or two bags a month at the moment (being at home means we drink a LOT more) and just store the opened coffee beans in an airtight container and have not noticed any deterioration.

But, having recently had my first coffee from a proper coffee Shop in 3 months I have realised that maybe it’s not quite good enough.

I had the same last week. And I prefer mine! Having just made myself a fab Latte, I'd not go back to anything less 'good' at home. It'd be like buying cheap lager!

Don't put coffee in the fridge, taking it in and out introduces condensation and this degrades the coffee. Keep it reasonably airtight at room temperature. My last order was 3kg and it will still be good when I finish it. Magnifica. Guatemalan beans from Hormozi. One of the most beneficial things I own, I can't go into coffee shops after this.

I recently got a bean to cup (Delonghi of course, Currys had amazing deals).

Interesting thing it that has an option to use grounds as well. I already had a bag of grounds from a local roaster and, because I had a new bean to cup machine, I bought a bag of beans of the same type from the same roaster. Same coffee, made in the same machine, beans v grounds. They were worlds apart. I'm no coffee snob but I was blown away by how different they were. The grounds had no depth, no complexity, just very meh.

(Three Hills coffee BTW)

A slight diversion maybe - since lockdwnn I've been subscribing to a weekly delivery from Pact. I've been really happy with the coffee, but they don't supply larger bags at lower prices, so I'm wondering if you have some tips on where to buy the coffee we like in bigger bags?

I am currently on 1kg bags from Coaltown. Pit Prop No.1 is the favourite right now.

I shouldn’t bite with these threads, but as someone who has worked in the specialty coffee industry for the last 7 years, I have to offer some advice.

Unfortunately, a lot of information from amateur and home baristas is not correct, or based on outdated assumptions. I’m not having a dig here; it’s a bit like asking for riding technique advice from a bunch of everyday riders - some of it will be ok, but some will be totally wrong.

First, freezing coffee can improve extraction. There’s an academic paper on this written by Chris Hendon from University of Bath, if you don’t want to take my word for it.

Second, roasted coffee will taste good for around 3 months from roast date if the bag isn’t opened. Once opened, beans will degrade slightly (mainly losing a bit of upfront acidity), but will be fine for 10 days or so if you store them properly (squeeze air out of bag and re-seal).

With espresso you need to let the beans degas for a week after roast date before use. Before this point, the CO2 in the beans will inhibit extraction and you’ll get sourness. Pre-grinding 10 minutes can help if you’re desperate, but this is less consistent.

Third, if you want to drink espresso, the only option is an espresso machine. No other method makes anything quite the same. Stovetop devices are probably the worst of the bunch as they apply too much heat to the coffee, resulting in over extraction.

If you’re set on espresso, go for the best grinder you can afford. The grinder is the main determinant of the flavour, as grind fineness and quality dictates how well the espresso will extract. At the budget end I’d suggest something second hand from Mazzer or Anfim.

Machine wise, it’s all single boiler machines until you spend quite a bit of money. Gaggia Classics and Rancilio Sylvias are ok, but temperature stability and pump performance are fairly poor. They’ll be miles ahead of your current setup, though.

Any questions, just drop me a DM or reply to this thread.

Cheers,

JP

I dont know if you've opened one of the dolce gusto machine capsules up, which i did to find a kind of powdered coffee that is soluble, as after use the capsule is empty.
Ive the tassimo one,plus about 4 used to death french stove top coffee pots, so Ive never been an instant coffee drinker, always ground(got a ceramic grinder) and I find the tassimo is excellent, and cutting open the tassimo capsules after use they contain coffee grounds, so I guess the dolce version is more instant coffee than anything.
PLUS the dolce machine doesnt switch off automatically(I bought one of these too, but was unimpressed). I like the hot water function, but been caught out on the auto shut off to return and find the 3 pints of water running down the kitchen unit. Just not use to that 😳

On the subject of coffee machines. Does anyone know of where I can get the little single use camping version. I think Coleman brought one out a number of years ago, but I've not seen those again, and the equivalent is twice the size and 4 times the cost. It folded down onto itself and packed to 1/2 the size of a coke can.

Christ the op has openned a can of worms!! My daily brew from a stovetop does me. I sometimes use my espresso machine to froth/heat some milk but otherwise its almost never used. Still my daily brew tastes better than 90% of coffee bought when out and about! I used preground coffee too, oh the shame! Whilst no doubt jjprestwhatsit above is right. Most people think Starbucks is good so all that faff would be lost on most.

Bialetti Brikka plus a 99p milk frother plus coffee from Darkwoods does me a close enough approximation of a flat white that I'm more than happy with.

For a mug of coffee, I use a mokka pot and dilute down a bit.

@jjp writes like he knows lots (he clearly does) however for us home coffee makers, it's all a bit too much to really worry about. I usually use beans from Whittard's (Guatemalan Elephant beans being my favourite) and a single bag gets thrown into my burr grinder (Sage) and it'll take weeks/months before I use them (I normally only make a couple of cups a day at weekends) but I can 100% say that the last cup tastes every bit the same as the first and almost always as good (if not markedly better) than any coffee shop (my 'local' being Layne's in Leeds when I am in the office).

Right now I am using Aldi beans which I bulk-bought at the start of lockdown when I couldn't get any delivered. Again, they are fine and I don't do anything specific to look after them - all my beans are stored very carefully by bunging them in the cupboard until I need them.

I love these threads. I’m not an expert, but I also reckon that some folks who talk very knowledgably on here aren’t such experts either. It was great to see the post by JP (jjprestidge) to give some more high quality info.

If I hear someone saying that either beans or ground coffee doesn’t deteriorate even after a few weeks of being open, I figure I can pretty much disregard whatever else they say. I’m certainly not a connoisseur, but the change in taste as coffee ages is not hard to identify imo.

Also, I’ve had some pretty manky tasting coffee made for me with some very expensive gear.

I’ve had better tasting ground coffee than some of the beans I’ve bought and ground. Maybe my grinder just isn’t so good. I stopped buying beans whe I realised that the Tesco Finest ground coffee was actually pretty good.

If I lived alone, I’d love to have a really espresso machine and spend time making beautiful, really beautiful espresso. But my 2 adult kids live with my wife and I. They just drink too much coffee. So it’s Nespresso for the house. Zero hassle, zero mess and very recyclable aluminium capsules. Taste is 8/10 imo.

I bought a filter machine and use my Tesco ground coffee. My home filter coffee is now better tasting (to my uneducated tastebuds) than most coffee shop filter coffEE I’ve had.

I’d really love to learn how to make a very good, occasional espresso from a stove top. But they always taste pretty mediocre to me.

I bought a filter machine and use my Tesco ground coffee. My home filter coffee is now better tasting (to my uneducated tastebuds) than most coffee shop filter coffEE I’ve had.

Which is kinda my point - if the coffee you drink tastes good to you then all the science and whatnot is a waste of time, money and effort.

Aeropress: Great coffee, but it's not espresso. Use mine a lot. Great while camping
Stove top : Makes bitter coffee, I don't enjoy at all. I never use this.
Espresso machine: My daily driver.

Grinder makes the biggest difference for home coffee 1) because freshly-ground coffee is so much nicer than stale coffee and 2) pre-ground coffee is almost always too coarse.

Interesting observations JH, pop in and have a chat with the roasters ManCoCo and I think you'll find they have a different view.

I was thinking of the Baletti Stove Tops to make the wife and I a flat white using a cheap frother and some ground beans - as it seems grinding your own is expensive with decent grinders about £100.

Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

It seems to me that you must need a very expensive grinder. I religiously ground my own for ages. But then realised that if you buy and drink good ground coffee fresh, it tastes as good (to me) as grinding fresh beans.

Grinding coffee is a pita for me. If I had a huge kitchen with a place for a stand-alone grinder permanently mounted, then well and good. Because it’s a nice experience. Smells lovely. But bringing out my grinder every couple of days, and having to clean it meticulously afterwards is a hassle I can live without.

To my taste, both stale ground coffee and stale beans taste equally stale. And I find that beans don’t stay fresh for much longer than ground coffee. (But that is the least confident of my brash statements).

That’s why I just buy little and often and try to drink my ground coffee before it goes off.

On a tight budget I'd always go Aeropress. It still benefits from finely-ground beans but it's not as fussy as an espresso machine so you can use shop-bought ground if you must. Cheap milk frothers are fine, too, although they never get the texture of foam you can get from a shop.

Did I mention I hate Bialettis?

The difference in taste between good and bad coffee is quite substantial. I went for years drinking what in hindsight was awful coffee; then, one day, I wandered in to a new coffee shop (Colonna and Smalls in Bath) and had an espresso that was completely different to what I’d tasted before.

It was fruity, complex, sweet and had none of the bitter flavours I was expecting, and was what ultimately led me to open a specialty coffee shop, and later, a specialty coffee importing business.

Whether it’s worth the effort and expense is up to the individual, but, for me, good coffee is essential.

This said, if you’re happy to drink filter coffee, you can get excellent results with a fairly cheap hand grinder, an Aeropress/V60/Clever Dripper and a Peak Water filter.

JP

Im certainly not convinced in the slightest by the carbon footprint of those Nespresso capsules, despite the greenwash Nestle come out with. We had one for a bit and it felt like slapping mother nature in the face every time i used it.

Meticulously cleaning your grinder? I've never ever cleaned my Iberital grinder in 8 years since I bought it second hand
Just bought 2kg of modern standard coffee now based in Grothes Fife, roasted on the 16th June for £30 cracking coffee and great price, pay by PayPal then pick it up in reception

Bialetti Stovetop, cheap Delonghi grinder that i accidentally modded to give a supper fine grind & a milk whizzer.
The grinder didn't seemed to grind particularly fine & whilst fanning about I managed to break one of the limit stops so that it now does what I want.
Fresh Beans, ground as required and fresh milk.
I turned myself a tamper at work so that I can pack the ground coffee in fairly tight. Just boiled water in so that it doesn't leave the coffee on the heat for too long, simmering plate of the Aga with the lid open and remove as soon as it starts to sputter.
Works for me, at least it works well enough to stop me looking at espresso machines.