It's Friday and I'm going away for the weekend so this could be fun.
Why do some people think that speeding (in a car) isn't really wrong? And get annoyed with speed cameras?
Because they want to get where they are going more quickly. I think most people don't treat driving as a dangerous activity becasue usually it isn't so they think it won't happen to them. Driving is treated so casually in this country. Something you can do while chatting on the phone, listening to music while playing with your satnav.
It's a shit state of affairs.
Brought home again now school is back and I walk my kids to school on a narrow pavement alongside a 40mph road. Now occasionally some drivers think, 'hold on this is a village with kids on pavements and a school, i'll slow down to 30 or so'. Most don't and a large number reckon it's ok to be buzzing my elbow at 50mph. Cocks.
I have a motorbike, why wouldn't i ?
There are a few long stretches of 30 and 40 around here, it almost feels like you're deliberately winding the drivers behind up by driving at the speed limit!
Yes, [b]Yak[/b]; I'm with you on this one. I [i]try[/i] to drive as respectfully through other people's communities as I would want them to through mine.
Speed!?
Everyone seems to drive like an old fart around our way.
I got done for speeding the other day. 35 in a 30. I saw the van and looked at my speedo and thought it was ok, obviously not, my fault, fair cop.
I don't think it's big or clever and I'm not someone who usually speeds that much. Although i do a bit, like every one else. Some people drive stupidly fast but i think it comes down to the fact that there aren't any police on the roads and individual cameras mean you can speed then slow down at that point.
I'd be happy for more average speed cameras to be about as they seem to work on the motorways.
Same as why they think it's OK to drive through amber & even 'just' red traffic lights.
Also WTF is it with people sitting in a queue at a red light then deciding to start driving forward a bit even though the lights aren't changing. It's not like they left a huge gap to move into or that them moving is going to make the lights change any quicker, so why bother?
I only speed when dressed formally, never when dressed casually.
because it's easy to do?
most people drive slightly over the limit, say 32-33 in a 30 45ish in a 40 and so on, cars are well insulated, engines are quiet and nearly every car is plenty powerful enough in any gear.
I don't think people think it's not wrong, just don't pay enough attention to it.
Driver convenience, comfort, isolation from the danger presented to others. Sense of control and freedom, not to mention wanting a return on the not inconsiderable financial outlay on a mobile status symbol. In a hurry, self important, lack of consequence, delusion, thrill of speed and because they can?
Safety cameras stop the fun. I'd place them behind every speed limit sign (including repeaters) and at every ATS controlled junction.
Nice people become arrogant ****ers behind the wheel of a car.
Unrealistic speed limits in a lot of instances. Roads that used to be national, now 40 or 50. I didnt die 20 years ago when they were national, I have no intention of slowing down on them now.
Because it's more fun. I love the sensation of speed and I can get it every time I drive on the roads, as long as I'm prepared to break the law.
Also, put me behind the wheel of a lively, enthusiastic vehicle on an open, sweeping, undulating B road and I become alive: my reflexes sharpen, I become more aware. I choose my line, my braking points, look ahead for hazards, and general enjoy the "roadcraft" of "making progress".
Put me in a line of traffic dawdling along at 25mph and I just become another zombie, far more likely to be saying "Sorry mate, I didn't see you"...
[quote=oldtalent ]Unrealistic speed limits in a lot of instances. Roads that used to be national, now 40 or 50. I didnt die 20 years ago when they were national, I have no intention of slowing down on them now.
Not sure if this is a troll or not.
There's a lot more cars on the road now.
I think urban speed limits should be dropped to 20mph
Nothing more frustrating though now than being on the motorway in the middle of the night and bloody Nazi control systems which stop you doing over 70mph, so you sit there with the cruise on doing literally nothing and fall asleep.
Because they can SEE the cameras so can get away with it
Also, put me behind the wheel of a lively, enthusiastic vehicle on an open, sweeping, undulating B road and I become alive: my reflexes sharpen, I become more aware. I choose my line, my braking points, look ahead for hazards, and general enjoy the "roadcraft" of "making progress".
IMO this is an argument to choose to things like a Mini 1275 GT rather than the latest hyper-hatch. The mini will give that feeling at far lower speed than the Wanger GTI-Turbo but with concomitant lower risk to the driver, passengers, 3rd parties, street furniture etc if 'making progress' becomes 'making a mistake'.
Also, I 2nd Downsheps idea. Been saying the same for a while now.
Not sure if this is a troll or not.
Why does everything have to be a "troll" unless it conforms exactly with your views???
risk normalisation.
nothing bad happened the last time I did this, ergo it must be safe.
see post below as a case in point.
I've never come close to making a mistake whilst making progress on open roads.
if 'making progress' becomes 'making a mistake'.
This is my point Purist, I've never come close to making a mistake whilst making progress on open roads. I've come close and bruised bumpers several times in heavy traffic.
Obviously, I wouldn't speed in heavy traffic, but I'm an experienced enough driver to be able to make a judgement on whether it's safe to drive faster than the law prescribes. AND, when I feel it's safe to do so without getting caught!
I think about this a lot on my commute as I get overtaken by countless motorists on my bike.
I think it's the case that society sees it as a victimless crime, as so many people do it and so few result in KSIs it's seen as acceptable. You can even see it in the judicial system - easiest way to commit murder and get away it? Do it in a car.
I think here's also an argument about the technical aspect, but can't really verbalise it - why is 31mph seen as dangerous when 29mph isn't. Obviously you can justify it with physics and energy values, but normally you don't think of those and it just seems a bit... ...arbitrary. Which it has to be to be a technical offence.
I wouldn't speed in heavy traffic, but I'm an experienced enough driver to be able to make a judgement on whether it's safe to drive faster than the law prescribes. AND, when I feel it's safe to do so without getting caught!
Then you get folk like this. I'm sure this is the case with some, but there comes a point when confidence becomes overconfidence and arrogance. At that point the risks increase massively.
How do you tell the difference between the skilful and those who think they're skilful, and are they themselves really in a position to judge? I'll go with the professionals at TRL on that one...
urban speed limits should be dropped to 20mph
Average speed across towns, with lights and traffic and roundabouts is only about 15mph anyway. You're completely at the mercy of what the lights do and whether a bin lorry pulls out in front of you or whatnot.
None of that stops the usual thoughtless pilots from competing in traffic light grand prixes before halting at the next one for another two minutes, in series of "making progress" fails.
Bit of several things.
Rules that aren't enforced may as well not be rules at all for large chunks of the population
Speed limits being randomly lowered despite an accident rate of 0% over the 30yrs or so i've lived in the area.
Cars becoming more capable making old speed limits obsolete.
By and large I have much bigger problems with people that drive massively under the limit (a lot of 40mph on main A roads around here), and idiot overtaking (when on the bike).
urban speed limits should be dropped to 20mph
Agree. But for any conurbation size. It is in many other countries and makes for a far safer and more enjoyable environment for all.
16 pages, two bans and a flounce.
Also WTF is it with people sitting in a queue at a red light then deciding to start driving forward a bit even though the lights aren't changing.
And then invariably, when the lights do change it takes them ten seconds to actually set off.
most people drive slightly over the limit, say 32-33 in a 30 45ish in a 40 and so on,
That's probably within most speedo tolerances to be actually driving at the speed limit.
How do you tell the difference between the skilful and those who think they're skilful, and are they themselves really in a position to judge?
IAM Advanced Driver would be a good start, former motoring editor with experience driving all major performance marques would help too.
councilof10 with all due respect you sound like a (bad) accident waiting to happen
IAM Advanced Driver would be a good start, former motoring editor with experience driving all major performance marques would help too.
you are the most awesome surfmat and I claim my £5.
How do you tell the difference between the skilful and those who think they're skilful, and are they themselves really in a position to judge?
I'm James Hunt.
At least that's what the driver of the car I just dodged in front of at 57mph in a 20mph zone shouted at me.
Curse you jam bo I was waiting for the 330d to make an appearance!
[quote=councilof10 ]Not sure if this is a troll or not.
Why does everything have to be a "troll" unless it conforms exactly with your views???
It doesn't, it was a rather daft statement trying to say that road safety is the same now as it was 20 years ago. It clearly isn't.
In many respects he's right.councilof10 with all due respect you sound like a (bad) accident waiting to happen
Whether its riding your bike, a task at work, or driving the car, its easy to become bored and not concentrate when the task at hand is well below your ability level (how many of us have had silly MTB crashes on trivial trail features?).
On the other hand when you are actively engaged in what you are doing concentration (and hence performance) is much better.
Unrealistic speed limits in a lot of instances. Roads that used to be national, now 40 or 50. I didnt die 20 years ago when they were national, I have no intention of slowing down on them now.
Please for the sake of yourself and others you share the road with, go on a speed awareness course. Or if you've been on one, go again but this time listen. Things have changed somewhat over the last 20 years.
If there is a stretch of road that has had the speed limit reduced it is because people have died. And on these accident blackspot stretches of road where speed limits have been reduced it is proved to be an effective way to reduce the accident rate. So that sort of disproves your point of view about lower speed limits being introduced as an annoyance to road users - they are introduced very deliberately backed up with evidence to support them being changed.
Believe it or not, it is a major annoyance and a very costly exercise for councils to change the speed limit on any stretch of roads. It has to be approved by a bureaucratic process with evidence provided to support the proposed benefit of the speed limit change, then there are the costs of the signage and road markings that have to be changed. It's not something councils or road safety organisations do just for the sheer hell of it. But this is the sort of context you learn on a speed awareness course, which certainly was effective in making me change my behaviours when I got collared by a speed camera and attended a course.
newrobdob - Member
councilof10 with all due respect you sound like a[s](bad) accident waiting to happen[/s] massive bellend
FTFY
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/stw-abusive-and-obnoxious-subculture
IAM Advanced Driver would be a good start
My neighbour (and friend) is an IAM Advanced Driver...
He can't parallel park to save his life (we have to where we live), his car has parking dents all over it and I've been in with him when he's not even seen a mini roundabout and driven over it without slowing down. He's the scariest driver I know and I'll always offer to drive!
I once jumped a Ferrari F40 over the Thames. The Queen was so impressed she kicked Prince Philip right in the crackers. Bet councilof10 has never done that.
On the other hand when you are actively engaged in what you are doing concentration (and hence performance) is much better.
Anyone who isn't paying the most attention when 'pootling' through housing estates and past schools and shops, needs to have a word with themselves. That's the least relaxed I am in a car!
As for IAM, followed one through Ilkley in his big 4x4 yesterday. I think he should have handed his licence back about 10 years ago.
On the other hand when you are actively engaged in what you are doing concentration (and hence performance) is much better.
This is 100% right. I don't drive dangerously; I don't drive aggressively and I don't drive carelessly... I don't actually drive particularly fast most of the time, but I'm happy to ignore speed limits if it's safe to drive faster than them.
Ghah, speeding again.
20mph in anything built up and rip,out the speed bumps.. ta.
I'm more annoyed by truck drivers ignoring speed limits TBH. F'rrrrrinstance.. yesterday coming down the M1 into the 50mph zone during roadworks, and a steady stream of trucks sellotaped to my bumper whilst I'm doing 50mph..
Ya Boo Sucks to them, intimidating tossers.
And I don't think speeding is "casual" it's premeditated and conscious...
Speed? Whenever I drive these days I'm lucky to get to half the limit.
Okay, so when I drive at the weekends when it's a but quieter, I don't know why others speed, but if I had to say why I do.
Depends on where and when - outside a school or residential street, I doubt I'd hit the giggdy heights of 20, I spend more time looking where I'm going and not the speedo of course.
Motorway, unless it's busy my average cruise is between 80-90, why?
Driving at 70mph in Britain doesn't work, it just doesn't - doing 70 means puts you at odds with the middle lane mongs, the MLMs don't like to change lanes, it's scary and hard work so they sit in the middle doing just enough to try to justify their position so a little bit quicker than whatever's in lane 1.
If you try to drive as you should at 70 you'll alternate between 1 and 2 most of the time, our you'll try, with a clear lane 1 you'll move into it, the moment you do the snaking MLMs will get up to 72mph and sloooooooly glide past, with another one 'not quite a safe distance' behind, until you come up behind a truck. Which you won't be able to pass because you can't get into lane 2 MLMs *know* changing lanes is literally lethal so they'll block you.
It becomes a nasty game of 70 down to 56 wait for a safe gap, 70, lorry, 56, gap - it's inefficient, stressful and dangerous. If I'm going less than 30 mins on the MWay I'll set the cruise at 56 behind a lorry and enjoy a bit of 60mpg, it's not worth the stress to save less than 5 mins.
If I'm going further I set it about 85, I'll be lucky to visit lane 1 at that speed, but I'll try but mostly alternate between 2 and 3. It uses less fuel than trying to do 70 or being a MLM because it's a constant speed.
I do speed on occation in NSL roads (because it's fun) and sometimes in 40 zones if it's obvisouly quiet and I know the road well.
I don't seek to justify that, but if I did it's this - the speed limits haven't really changed since the 60s my current car steers and brakes so well despite being a boring old man’s diesel estate it would run rings around my old Golf GTi, honestly it would make mincemeat out of it on any track you fancy.
"Ah" they'll say, but there are other older cars on the road - so my limit is partly set for the benefit of Dave the Classic Car Nut who wants to drive is Morris Minor at the weekend, that's fine, but my car is safer than his.
"Ah" they'll say reaction times haven’t changed (which isn't actually true, modern life as made us all a little quicker to the draw than our parents and grandparents but that's not important) okay so the limits are in place for Charles the 83-year-old chap who still drives (good on you sir) but I'm young(ish) fit(ish) and years of trying to kill myself on bikes and playing COD has given me quick reactions and the ability not to panic in a crisis.
"Ah" they'll say, the roads are so busy no, there's so much less room than back then - but when there isn't...
Okay - so we've kept the limits of the 60s despite massive advances in car technology (honestly, drive a standard classic mini on cross-plys and you'd be crazy to get near the limits) because the roads are busier than they used to be and we still have to consider older vehicles and older drivers - so if it's quiet and you're not 83 then it *should* be safe to drive a bit quicker, or at least as safe as it was to drive at the limit say 20 years ago - fully aware that if I'm caught I'll be fined and possibly get points, it's a risk you have to accept - in the same way, camera these days are put where they're put for good reason, they're not mindless revenue grabbers so if you're caught by one, then you deserve it.
Been driving 20 years, had 3 points in all that time, probably speed most weeks.
FOr me its because speed limits seem to be set and changed arbitarily for no good reason and always to a lower speed limits. There are decent A roads near me that have been the national speed limit for the last 40 years. Now they are 50. They are going through the countryside not villages. Nothing has changed on the road except they resurfaced it so arguebly made it safer so why reduce the speed limit? There are dozens of examples of this round our way.
So my question would be not why are people speeding, but why are roads being restricted to slower speeds for no apparent reason
Only use mobile speed cameras and fixed [i]average[/i] speed cameras and paint them the same colour as the surroundings so you cant see them.
How many times do people need to be caught and fined before they stop?
I've seen this topic before, I'm getting popcorn and biscuits.
That's not the situation that was being discussed. They are indeed when you should be paying most attention, and i'm a particular fan of the new(ish) flashing 20 limit around school start/end times.Anyone who isn't paying the most attention when 'pootling' through housing estates and past schools and shops, needs to have a word with themselves. That's the least relaxed I am in a car!
It's when you are on some random B road and being forced to do 40 when there's no hazards other than the odd pheasant that would warrant doing a lower speed than 75.
Overall, speed limits need reviewing in many situations. A lot of urban speed limits need reducing, and a lot of other limits need increasing.
Cars becoming more capable making old speed limits obsolete.
This is my major bugbear TBH. When the 70mph limit was introduced in the '60s, the average speed of motorists was around 50mph. The introduction of the limit actually made people drive faster.
The 30mph limit was introduced in the 1930s, when cars looked like this.
[img] 
[/img]
Totally going to out-brake my BMW, that is. Yet since then, "thinking time" for braking has gone up (probably due to people fannying about with their stereo / sat nav / phone / feral child). Whether that has had a net effect on stopping distances going up or down I'm not sure - point is though, they were set based on available data in the 1930s and never reviewed. How appropriate are they to today's motoring? (And, can we have a crackdown on drivers not paying attention please?)
As for IAM, followed one through Ilkley in his big 4x4 yesterday. I think he should have handed his licence back about 10 years ago.
How did you know he had an advanced motoring qualification?
roll on self driving cars, because once they become established all cars will have limiters.
oads that used to be national, now 40 or 50. I didnt die 20 years ago when they were national, I have no intention of slowing down on them now.
How many did die? And continue to die because of people thinking the law doesn't apply to them?
Mwhahaha, this is going well.
Various posts along the lines of
I don't think people think it's not wrong, just don't pay enough attention to it.
What about all the people who moan about speed cameras (including the Mail et al)? Best way to not give money to the council for speeding would be to... not speed?
I wonder if there is a trend to rip out single speed cameras and replace them with average speed zones.
That's not the situation that was being discussed.
My post was in response to Shib trolling away that he only crashes when he's in heavy slow-moving traffic because he's not paying attention.
Put me in a line of traffic dawdling along at 25mph and I just become another zombie, far more likely to be saying "Sorry mate, I didn't see you"...
The fact that he gets bored and doesn't pay attention when he should be paying the most attention suggests he's due an IAM refresher course. Perhaps they'll give him a new sticker for the rear window.
IAM Advanced Driver would be a good start, former motoring editor with experience driving all major performance marques would help too.
Wouldn't the latter damage the good done by the former?
😉
My post was in response to Shib trolling away
Are you so lacking in intellect that the only way you feel you can gain the upper hand in a debate is to accuse me of trolling???
Not a lot to moan about with most fixed position cameras. If you can't notice them then you shouldn't have been going that fast.What about all the people who moan about speed cameras (including the Mail et al)? Best way to not give money to the council for speeding would be to... not speed?
However some are placed in the only overtaking spot for miles and miles which rather than making the roads safer just makes irritable drivers as they are bottled up behind P-Jays 83yr old Morris Minor driver doing a top speed of 40 for another 20 mins.
I tend to agree, but for the opposite reason, it'll bring up the speed of the slower cars on the roads to a sensible level.roll on self driving cars, because once they become established all cars will have limiters.
Speed? Whenever I drive these days I'm lucky to get to half the limit.
Okay, //snipped the middle as it was a long post
//
Been driving 20 years, had 3 points in all that time, probably speed most weeks.
no mention of vulnerable road users or pedestrians and the difference in collision survival rates at 20mph -30/40 and 60mph
its all about YOU. which sums up a lot of car drivers, they are narcissists in their own little tin bubble.
what surprises me is how many car jocks there are on a cycling forum. love speed? take it to the track where you are only a danger to yourself not others.
^^^this
only way you feel you can gain the upper hand in a debate
The fact you see it as a competitive sport reveals more about your motives than any of your actual 'contributions'.
Wouldn't the latter damage the good done by the former?
Ha, only if I was a Top Gear presenter! I was editor for a publishing company that produced magazines for the UK largest prestige car dealers in the noughties. They own the largest group of Aston Martin dealerships as well as Ferrari, Porsche, Mercedes, Jag, BM, Audi etc. I was lucky enough to attend regular launches, track days etc where you'd be encouraged to "make progress" in the latest model, usually with a well-know touring car driver in the passenger seat. I learnt far more on those days than any driving course.
It was at the time AM phased out DB9 and launched the vert/horiz platform, so often got to play in some very lovely vehicles including the Vanquish S - still my personal favourite.
Our content was syndicated to other publishers so there was a wide variety of cars to test/photograph. I was once given a Bentley Arnage Red Label for 3 days, but it cost so much to fill up, it spent most of the time parked outside the terraced house I had at the time!
However some are placed in the only overtaking spot for miles and miles which rather than making the roads safer just makes irritable drivers as they are bottled up behind P-Jays 83yr old Morris Minor driver doing a top speed of 40 for another 20 mins.
maybe the only overtaking spot for miles and miles might also be an accident blackspot from frustrated drivers making poor decisions?
I think urban speed limits should be dropped to 20mph
It already is where I live. But as it's not enforced, it's about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
Possible, but unlikely imo, just revenue generators. They even feature commonly on crawler lanes etc, which is as stupid as stupid gets.maybe the only overtaking spot for miles and miles might also be an accident blackspot from frustrated drivers making poor decisions?
I think urban speed limits should be dropped to 20mph
It already is where I live. But as it's not enforced, it's about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
Not to be callous, but it will make a difference to the chance of prosecution when somebody is injured / killed.
"Ah" they'll say reaction times haven’t changed (which isn't actually true, modern life as made us all a little quicker to the draw than our parents and grandparents but that's not important)
The opposite is true for a lot of drivers - far more distractions on the road, and making cars easier to drive means that they demand less attention and focus.
camera these days are put where they're put for good reason, they're not mindless revenue grabbers so if you're caught by one, then you deserve it.
Hard to argue with that. If you get caught by a bright yellow box, you're exceeding the speed limit [i]and[/i] not paying attention, which is a lethal combination.
i'm a particular fan of the new(ish) flashing 20 limit around school start/end times.
Yep, agreed. Makes far more sense than permanent reductions. Going past a school at 8:30am, 20mph is arguably too fast. At 3am though, it's a nonsensical limit.
roll on self driving cars, because once they become established all cars will have limiters.
Two pages, standards are slipping.
the only way you feel you can gain the upper hand in a debate is to accuse me of trolling???
To be fair, it's a bit like the boy who cried wolf. If you're being accused of trolling when you're not doing so, you've only got yourself to blame.
Roads that used to be national, now 40 or 50. I didnt die 20 years ago when they were national, I have no intention of slowing down on them now.
Pillock. We also didn't wear seatbelts, had drum brakes and flimsy cars. Things have improved.
[url= https://www.google.co.uk/maps/ @52.3154822,-2.8609992,3a,75y,1.87h,75.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1susmuBSkv7rbwDbrZSvr8lQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656]This used to be NSL when I was a kid.[/url] And someone did in fact die IIRC.
Cougar - ModeratorYep, agreed. Makes far more sense than permanent reductions. Going past a school at 8:30am, 20mph is arguably too fast. At 3am though, it's a nonsensical limit.
why is it always 3am when we hypothetically drive past schools?
anyway, let's pretend that it *is* 3am, the number of people driving is very small, the number of people trying to sleep nearby is very high. The number of people who'd benefit from a higher limit is very small, the number of people who benefit from a reduced limit is very high. Traffic noise is most definitely a form of pollution.
[s]Because they want to get where they are going more quickly.[/s] Because they didn't allow enough time for their journey
FTFY
Cars becoming more capable making old speed limits obsolete.
But the drivers...
Works both ways.This used to be NSL when I was a kid. And someone did in fact die IIRC.
[url= https://www.google.co.uk/maps/ @56.4200501,-2.918535,3a,75y,166.32h,103.21t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1scCQtEUEpTwR2cB3W2xO_bQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en]This used to be NSL when I was a kid.[/url] no-one did in fact die IIRC.
We live on a residential road that is a through road from the bypass to town centre, it's there to allow farm access as the bypass cut the road in two but it's 99.9% cars using it. Our section is few parked cars so idiots floor their car from the previous mini roadabout to the next corner, saving 1 second in 100 metres.
There is no need to drive more than 20mph on residential roads.
Totally going to out-brake my BMW, that is. Yet since then, "thinking time" for braking has gone up (probably due to people fannying about with their stereo / sat nav / phone / feral child). Whether that has had a net effect on stopping distances going up or down I'm not sure - point is though, they were set based on available data in the 1930s and never reviewed. How appropriate are they to today's motoring? (And, can we have a crackdown on drivers not paying attention please?)
Speaking from experience, braking distance doesn't matter around town. If you hit someone, there's a good chance you won't have time to react (or you would've swerved around them or stopped).
I've cycled round town a lot and only once actually collided with anyone with any force - didn't have time to touch the brakes, they ran out in between stationary traffic in a busy situation where I had been concerned a car was about to pull out on me so was concentrating on that and didn't see her until she was right out in the road.
Out of town there are justifications for speeding IMHO (I'm much more bothered about people not paying attention/passing too close than going past 10 or 20mph above the limit out of town). In town, during the day, absolutely none (and yet this is where more people speed).
We also didn't wear seatbelts, had drum brakes and flimsy cars. Things have improved.
Exactly, so time to increase the speed limits now we are all in safer cars.
There is too much obsession with speeding and not enough with crap driving. Everyone could drive faster than the limit if they drove correctly, i.e. not 4 inches behind each other, not pulling into gaps that don't exist on dual carriageways, not being in wrong lane on roundabout etc,.
+1000There is too much obsession with speeding and not enough with crap driving.
Speaking from experience, braking distance doesn't matter around town. If you hit someone, there's a good chance you won't have time to react
Because you are too close or going too fast?
fifeAndy that limit is to slow you om the approach to the built up area. It will help the slow of reaction to be in the vicinity of 30mph by the time they get to the junction just past the limit change. Has the town/village grown in the last 20 years? What's the accident stats like for that first part of the 30mph limit?
why is it always 3am when we hypothetically drive past schools?
Ok, 10pm then. Or any time when free range children aren't likely to be milling around outside school.
anyway, let's pretend that it *is* 3am, the number of people driving is very small, the number of people trying to sleep nearby is very high. The number of people who'd benefit from a higher limit is very small, the number of people who benefit from a reduced limit is very high. Traffic noise is most definitely a form of pollution.
There's a world of difference between driving and 30 and redlining your Scooby at 60mph.
If you hit someone, there's a good chance you won't have time to react
If you hit someone, you weren't driving at an appropriate speed for the conditions. (Assuming you're paying proper attention.)
...There's a world of difference between driving and 30 and redlining your Scooby at 60mph.
and there's a big difference between 20 and 30.
for the sake of keeping things unambiguous, which is when laws are at their best, a fixed limit makes sense to me.
with the added benefit of reducing road noise at 'quiet' times.
(speed limits are not *just* about safety. you could live next to a motorway, plenty of people do. it's very *safe*, but it's chuffing horrible - because of the noise)
Works both ways.This used to be NSL when I was a kid. no-one did in fact die IIRC.
Check out this website:
Looks like there was a few slight and one serious RTI, could've been an indicator that a fatal was just around the corner...
the classic **** driver mistake that driving fast around a track = being able to drive safely on public roads...I was lucky enough to attend regular launches, track days etc where you'd be encouraged to "make progress" in the latest model, usually with a well-know touring car driver in the passenger seat. I learnt far more on those days than any driving course.
...which by your own admission you are shit at, since driving on open roads is very easy whereas driving in traffic actually takes care/attention/patience none of which you have!This is my point Purist, I've never come close to making a mistake whilst making progress on open roads. I've come close and bruised bumpers several times in heavy traffic.
Exactly, so time to increase the speed limits now we are all in safer cars.
Well, all of us except those of us not in cars. Which is most of us.
There is too much obsession with speeding and not enough with crap driving.
The former is quantifiable, the latter somewhat subjective.