Forum menu
Good grid, 3rds nice for a sleep stream in to T1...
3rds nice for a sleep stream in to T1…
Should be a wake-up call for Lando.
Max is a grade A dirty f-ecker!
Blimey.....the pigeons* are coming home to roost for Max ?
*chickens?
BahahHhHahahahahahA
Fiver says he’ll take Lando out if Lando tries another pass.
LOL Red Bull 15th and 16th! 🙂
The Ferraris have gone! Max finally got what he deserves- that was dangerous driving. He’s still gonna get big points though isn’t he…
We that was a good race! Carlos was fast today, he’s underrated!
That should be points on his licence. What a ****
Carlos is good when he is on it, unfortunately he is not on it often enough.
As for Max, what more do we expect. He is used to always getting away with it and today he didn't and last weekend he shouldn't have either.
Now Ferrari second in constructor's race, ahead of Red Bull. Can't see Perez keeping that seat next year.
Surprised we haven’t had the retirement announcement yet, still a few hours of the weekend left I suppose
that was a good race! Carlos was fast today, he’s underrated!
Name the team with the strongest driver pairing.
Anyone going to say anything other than Ferrari? McLaren are up there, Merc maybe, but I expect most would say Ferrari
I think Max now feels he's up against it, his partner's gone missing far too often. He's a great racer but he does lash out under pressure. Oscar seems to have gone off in a huff so its down to Lando battling against his bezzie. Nice to see Lewis putting the manners on George. Just a shame he won't be at Ferrari with Carlos, but I'd love to see Sainz in a competitive Red Bull with Max mixing it up. Does that actually make sense...
"Red Bull team principal Christian Horner, meanwhile, produced some data that he said proved Norris had braked later on the lap of the incident than he had on even his fastest lap of the race, and was never going to make the corner.
Then he accused Norris of deliberately doing this to ensure he had his nose ahead into the corner.
“It used to be a reward of the bravest to go around the outside,” Horner said. "We are in danger of flipping the overtaking laws upside down, where drivers will just try to get their nose ahead at the apex and then claim they have to be given room on the exit.
“You can see quite clearly he has effectively come off the brakes, gone in super late to try to win that argument the way these regs are written. And then at that point you are penalised.”"
Oh, there's a surprise from Christian Moaner. If he's right, then congratulations to Norris for goading Verstappen into such a reckless move. Maybe Norris is showing a more ruthless persona that he needs to be a World Champion...
The stewards revised max's penalty and added two points to his license.
I'm enjoying Perez Vs Lawson. "I'm going for first says Lawson"
https://twitter.com/FastestPitStop/status/1850654263506006052
[smug mode]claiming my 50p[/smug mode]
“I’m going for first says Lawson”
That's just standard operating procedure whenever you overtake anyone in Australia.
Honestly I don't think any 'rule clarifications' will change Max's approach to over taking or defending that he's employed since his karting days. His whole approach has always been to do what he does now; either drive your opponent off the track or force the crash, sometimes he gets away with it sometimes he doesn't, you could tell he wasn't even slightly bothered by the penalties listening to his in car radio, he understood perfectly that in this case he just didn't 'get away with it'.
But in reality He absolutely achieved what he set out to do at Mexico, at a circuit where the RB couldn't really race either the Ferrari or the McLaren, he chose to disrupt Norris' race as Norris is Max's biggest threat, and Sainz wining doesn't matter - and you can watch and compare the 'fight' he put up when Carlos overtook him if you need convincing at all. Max chose to not really put up a fight, but he managed later on to keep Lando far enough behind himself and the Ferraris to make sure he couldn't win. He said after the race that had he not done what he did; he might have been able to hold off the Mercedes, but then Norris might have won.
Whether or not it is within the rules of the time, most of the drivers who get to the top have employed the "do you dare?" approach to overtaking rivals at critical times, and it's up to the stewards to adequately control it when it happens. The increase in safety/decrease in serious injury in modern times has made it more prevalent because historically there was greater personal jeopardy in the manoeuvres; now the car is being used as a barging tool without serious consequences if the instigator misjudges the reaction of the other party.
On an different F1 subject - Gene Haas has been proved right in that Haas needed better management and not just more $$$ and media attention.
Gene Haas has been proved right in that Haas needed better management and not just more $$$ and media attention.
I'm not so sure. This year's car was designed last year, when Steiner was still the boss. It's a decent midfield car, but most of the other midfield teams have underperformed. Renault is a shambles, so is Sauber. Williams are still in the early stages of rebuilding and Aston Marten will almost certainly improve massively once Newey gets established. If those other teams do start performing to the level expected of works teams, Haas will end up where Sauber are now. The technical partnership with Toyota Gazoo seems to be an admission that they need to improve their technical resources, which I think is what Steiner was telling Gene Haas.
George Russell has suggested that "19 out of 20" drivers are aligned on what Formula 1's racing guidelines should be and was pleased to see "unfair" manoeuvres penalised at the Mexico Grand Prix.
Wonder who the '1' is 🙂
Perez is so gone, isn’t he… just too emphatic and too quick in replying to any questions about his future, and what a weekend. Can’t get through Q1, can’t park on the grid, can’t get into the points, loses out to Lawson of all people in a brawl on track, can’t get fastest lap (admittedly at a car disadvantage to the Ferrari but at a gap of nearly a full second, and only three tenths ahead of the next fastest, who didn’t get fresh boots—oh, Lawson again). Somewhere in Milton Keynes there’s a printer churning out some new “30” stickers as we speak.
Max is becoming a bit tiresome now. He knows what he’s doing: it would have worked if he’d got away with it, it worked even with the penalties, and it almost certainly would have worked even better had there been a collision. He can only lose the title if he races clean, so he won’t.
Outstanding weekend from Sainz and Ferrari. The team to beat for 2025?
Not sure it's as clear cut as that. Once Norris was in clean air ahead of Leclerc he was gaining on Sainz - just didn't have enough laps left to do it. As mentioned ^^ - job "well done" by Max. Overall it seems as though the McLaren is currently the best car but Ferrari do have a strong package and 2 good drivers. Bit of a dip this weekend from Piastri or it could have been even worse for Red Bull. Plus, of course, Sainz won't be there next season. Imagine Hamilton is licking his lips and hoping he still has some of his old driving magic to make the sort of the opportunity in that car. Not sure the Merc will be much more sorted next season
and only three tenths ahead of the next fastest, who didn’t get fresh boots—oh, Lawson again
Lawson had fresh boots, Norris another couple of 10ths back didn't.
Another bonus of Verstappens' antics of harrassing Norris at all costs has gifted Ferrari second place in the Constructors Championship. I wonder how that's going down at the factory...
They'll be fine with it as finishing 3rd in the constructor's championship gives them more wind tunnel and CFD time to use for the 2025 and 2026 car development. It does mean less prize money but thanks to the budget cap they run at a profit anyway, they'll gain more from the promotional opportunities from Max being WC.
Lawson had fresh boots
Ah, I missed that.
They’ll be fine with it
Maybe the management will, but I bet there's a lot of lower level personnel whose bonus will depend on Championship position...
Perez is so gone, isn’t he…
Absolutely, if it wasn't a nailed on certainty before, after Sunday's performance it is now. When you're overtaken (fresh tyres or no) and the man who's going to get your job gives you the finger on his way past, that's the signal that you should take more time to enjoy some fishing opportunities.
They’ll be fine with it as finishing 3rd in the constructor’s championship gives them more wind tunnel and CFD time to use for the 2025 and 2026 car development.
With Newey gone, and going by the lack of progress this season, they need all the help they can get.
Honestly I don’t think any ‘rule clarifications’ will change Max’s approach to over taking or defending
With only 4 races left max won’t care. If he takes Norris out then he gains. Even with a penalty he can still get back to close enough defend his title
With only 4 races left max won’t care.
Getting a race ban would be a major concern.
I remember Jerez in 97 and Schumacher being disqualified for the entire season retrospectively for trying to punt Villeneuve off the track in not a massively dissimilar fashion to what Verstappen attempted on Sunday. It's up to the FIA to take action if they want to put a stop to it.
I've just received a spam email at work from someone called Max Norris, I wonder whether they're an F1 fan?!
Difference is that in 2021 he was desperate but had to get across the finish line to collect points; this year that margin is still sufficient he can effectively dare goad Norris into something rash knowing full well that it is Norris who needs to guarantee to cross the finish line. So, even more of **** than before.
Lewis's Ferrari move is looking inspired/lucky*.
Red Bull - on the way down.
Mercedes - clueless
Aston - won't be anywhere till 2026 at the earliest.
The rest of the grid - not even close.
Only McLaren are looking like consistent challengers to Ferrari.
...but even new Ferrari are always capable of quickly going back to old Ferrari ways! 🙂
(*depending on your view of Lewis!)
Mercedes have been clueless since the start of these regs and just when you think they've cracked it they go backwards again.
Mercedes have been clueless since the start of these regs and just when you think they’ve cracked it they go backwards again.
They've outscored Red Bull at 10 of the last 12 races and won 3 races out of the last 10, versus 0 out of 10 for Red Bull. Next year really is anyone's guess. Only thing I'd bet on is that Perez doesn't win any races next year.
But won 3 of the last 4 races before the summer break, and are routinely 4th/5th on the starting grid where just about everyone seems to think they are in the pecking order anyway. I don't think for a second Merc think they're doing OK, but calling them clueless is a bit OTT I think.
Remember that the Ferrari is still 'quite' bad in high speed corners, I doubt they'll do as well in Brazil as they did in Mexico and Texas, no one's going to claim they're suddenly clueless.
£1 say's they still be as inconsistent as they'll switch focus to 2026 regs as soon as they're allowed. 🙂
£1 say’s they still be as inconsistent as they’ll switch focus to 2026 regs as soon as they’re allowed.
I'll take that bet, but I just want to clarify if you're talking about Red Bull, Aston Marten, Merc, Renault, Audi, or one of the others.
£1 that Mercedes are still inconsistent! 🙂
They’ve outscored Red Bull at 10 of the last 12 races and won 3 races out of the last 10, versus 0 out of 10 for Red Bull.
The point is more that they’re all over the shop. They’ll turn up on Friday and blow everyone away, then be nowhere on Saturday and just slog away at it for anything between fourth and seventh on Sunday. Their early summer run of form didn’t hold up at all after the break, and they’re still having to A-B test their upgrades on race day because they just can’t model them reliably. They’re a lot of very smart and high-performing people who are probably doing everything right except, it would seem, for one single but crucial thing: they presumably just haven’t unlocked correlation and are having to work almost blind.
Red Bull are on a downturn for sure, but the comparison is a little skewed if you pick a number of races that just stretches to the start of Mercedes’ good spell and overlook the fact that while Merc have two high-performing drivers Red Bull have one and a lame duck.
I don’t think for a second Merc think they’re doing OK, but calling them clueless is a bit OTT I think.
They're 200 points behind a customer team. From their giddy heights of domination that's quite a fall.
And this will be their lowest constructors placing in years. They're going backwards not forwards.
When was the last race weekend you followed them thinking - yeah Mercedes have got this one in the bag?
The FIA has revealed two engine manufacturers have entered into accepted breach agreements over the 2023 Financial Regulations.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-honda-renault-f1-power-unit-financial-regulations-breach-2023
the-muffin-manFull Member
When was the last race weekend you followed them thinking – yeah Mercedes have got this one in the bag?
Yeah I mean that actually illustrates the problem nicely!
A few times now in FP3/quali they've looked brilliant, then they've been absolutely nowhere in the following session.
From watching the Merc Debrief YT vids etc, it feels like they now know some of the variables that define their car's small operating window, but not all of them.
I think it was the most recent episode where James was asked why there was such a performance drop off after sprint quali, and he said something like "that's the million dollar question". An earlier episode they seemed equally perplexed by how quick they were!
two engine manufacturers
Honda and Alpine - can understand Honda, after all they've probably been buying all the sandwiches for Red Bull, but it's hard to see what Alpine have been spending money on.
The press release suggests that these were "procedural" discrepancies - more to do with documentation and paperwork than engine development.
Here's a thought. If you get a 5 second penalty you should also get a 5 point deduction.
@slowoldman Magnusson would never stand a chance of getting into positive figures ?
Honda are making the sandwiches now?
So...
We've had a budget cap for three years.
RB Honda exceeded it in the first year.
It appears that they might have done so again in the second.
They won all four titles in those two years and are leading one of them in the third year in which we don't yet know how much they've spent on sarnies.
Here’s a thought. If you get a 5 second penalty you should also get a 5 point deduction.
If you pick up multiple penalties a race maybe an idea, a bit harsh if you have a minor infringement like track limits because of the nature of the circuit.
No one gets a 5 sec penalty any more, they're all 10 sec. Last year they decided that the 5 sec penalty wasn't enough of a deterrent. Lando's 5 sec penalty was a 10 sec that was halved: Because Max.
andrewh
Free Member
So…
We’ve had a budget cap for three years.
RB Honda exceeded it in the first year.
It appears that they might have done so again in the second.
They won all four titles in those two years and are leading one of them in the third year in which we don’t yet know how much they’ve spent on sarnies.
Believe this breach relates to spending for the 2026 regs. Therefore nothing to do with red bull (who will be with rbpt/ford)
Here’s a thought. If you get a 5 second penalty you should also get a 5 point deduction.
Magnussen would be on -48 for the season then! 🙂
They’ve outscored Red Bull at 10 of the last 12 races
RB can thank Perez for that. Whilst I don’t expect him to be hounding max he should be in the mix and not languishing in midfield at best
neither Honda nor Alpine were in breach of the cost cap imposed upon the manufacturers.
Just for those who can't read the linked article.
[i]Sergio Perez clearly believes he’s not going anywhere[/i] - After his recent performance I don't think anyone thinks he is going anywhere. Keeping a seat at RB is a different question.
delusional
So what doe Sergio have on Horner?
Sergio Perez clearly believes he’s not going anywhere
This must be as a result of the internal power struggles at Red Bull
Helmut Marko is traditionally pretty brutal at getting rid of under-performing drivers, so the fact that Perez has survived so long this year is also curious
I think they pretty much decided that swapping drivers at the mid point wasn't going to do much for their Championship points haul, and that "better the devil you know" was a wiser decision that trying to start from a lower point with a younger driver who didn't have the years of experience that Perez does, and the years of team-work/understanding/ set-up and comms shortcuts that he has his side of the garage.
I don't believe for a second that he thinks that seat is his next year, despite what he might say in interviews.
So what doe Sergio have on Horner?
I think it's just that Perez has Carlos Slim backing him and that's worth a lot of money to Red Bull. However, it's a bit like McLaren with Ricciardo - it cost them a lot to pay him off, but if they are serious about winning titles, they can't afford to keep deadwood around. They really need to put either Lawson or Colapinto in to partner Max next year.
I think it’s just that Perez has Carlos Slim backing him and that’s worth a lot of money to Red Bull.
Horner seems very keen to swap Mexican money for Argentinian money! 🙂
Lawson is the only choice (within the Red Bull driver pool) to go alongside Max next season. I think they really wanted it to be Ricciardo but that didn't work out.
Magnussen is poorly so Haas have put Ollie Bearman in for today and the sprint tomorrow
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/magnussen-to-miss-brazil-sprint-bearman-steps-in/10669100/