Lewis wasn’t taking about his steering into the corner
How do you know that? Seems a bit unlikely to me, but I’m willing to be corrected.
I'm sure Lewis's opinion was that if Max wanted to divebomb and risk a collision, he wasnt going to prevent it.
Lewis had nothing to lose
Max should have done a Lauda/Prost and took the points which were on offer at Hungary.
You can see on the video (includes slow-mo) that Hamilton’s left hand rises above the bodywork while Max is alongside.
The stewards said that they looked at the telemetry and Hamilton took his usual line (i.e. didn't change line to steer into Max). Obviously, he didn't change line to avoid a collision, but Lewis is pretty good at getting his elbows out when he needs to. In this case, Max just needed to score points towards the championship, he had more to lose than Hamilton and Hamilton knew that. My guess is that Hamilton was trying to make a point to Max that he's not afraid to pull the same aggressive defense that Max pulls on others. We'll see whether Max learns from this or not, but my money is that he doesn't.
The other thing to bear in mind is that as Hamilton is turning in, Verstappen is locking up – had he not locked up, he would have made the corner and come out ahead of Hamilton without contact, but he is starting to go straight on at almost the same time as when Hamilton is beginning to turn in.
the 10 place penalty for max could prove a headache for perez. If he can’t get anywhere near max despite the penalty, I imagine he’s done.
FP1 at Spa and it looks like Max and RB have this one sown up. He's 1/2 second up on the rest of the field on the hard tyre and when everyone put on soft tyres his hard tyre time was still good enough to see him tenth. That he has a 10 place grid penalty doesn't really look like it'll do anything to stop him winning this race
I wouldn't see it being a foregone conclusion just yet.
The RedBull will work well around Spa, but Max is going to have to work through a lot of (fast) traffic to get to the front and hopefully Lando can stretch out enough of a gap to hold him off.
FP1 at Spa and it looks like Max and RB have this one sown up.
Points are awarded for Sunday, not Friday. Different teams run different engine modes and fuel loads in practice, Friday is just used to gather data. Planting the seeds that will provide for the harvest on Sunday.
nickcFull Member
FP1 at Spa and it looks like Max and RB have this one sown up. He’s 1/2 second up on the rest of the field on the hard tyre and when everyone put on soft tyres his hard tyre time was still good enough to see him tenth. That he has a 10 place grid penalty doesn’t really look like it’ll do anything to stop him winning this race
The interesting thing will be whether or not he beats Perez despite the 10 place drop...
Mclaren looked quick in FP2 BTW. It looked like some teams were sandbagging though.
It's also possible that other teams will take engine penalties depending on grid positions, including Perez for Red Bull. Verstappen might start higher than 10th and Perez might start behind him. But the constructor's championship is still open so I expect the drivers ahead of Verstappen to defend pretty hard to fight for the constructor's crown.
I'd admire the optimism, last year Max won from 6th and the year before that from 14th.
I’d admire the optimism, last year Max won from 6th and the year before that from 14th.
Difference being the other teams are closer.
The interesting thing will be whether or not he beats Perez despite the 10 place drop…
Does the Pope shit in the woods? If Perez started on pole and Max from the pit lane I’d still put money on Max finishing ahead.
Perez woke up!!
Perez woke up!!
Was only 0.003 from not making Q3 but he was probably due a bit of a break.
Edi flight to Dusseldorf no delay, drive to Maastricht for the hotel at 11.30pm , back up at 4.30am to get to the park and ride near Spa but the forecast is looking good ☀️ and the pack is all bunched up, should be a great race but I'm guessing there will be so many fans cheering on Max being so close to Holland
Sainz has allegedly signed a one year deal with Williams, but with a get-out clause that allows him to not even race for Williams if Merc or Red bull come calling before the start of the season.
Brilliant drive by George, Lewis looks a bit miffed!
George under investigation for being under weight - possible DSQ coming...
That's pretty much a guaranteed disqualification isn't it?
Yep. What a shame. Ran a perfect race, and this is entirely out of his control. Seems brutal. Also proved entirely wrong about Red Bull, Perez made to look entirely pedestrian, and Verstappen unable to shake off Norris. They won't go into the holiday break a happy team I;d have though
That’s pretty much a guaranteed disqualification isn’t it?
Yep...1.5kg under.
DQ confirmed.
Seems Lewis didn’t even hang around for the team photo he was so pissed off with the team.
Confirmed that Russel has been DQd
Real shame as he did a really good job at managing the one stop race
****s sake lmao
I wonder if Mercedes deliberately didn't drain all the fuel out, in the hope that the FIA wouldn't notice?
Great day today, yesterday was a little wet but today was glorious. My son had great time.
Gutted for George, but I was hoping Lewis would get him. Got on the track at the end and saw the presentations.
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Cracking day out but it was getting hot in the sun, can't believe how hilly the circuit is and so tidy with no litter. So organised that it made Silverstone look amateurish 2 years ago
There seemed to be so many ordinary folk there to watch motor racing compared to the many rich folk arriving in helicopters all day long at the British GP
So many folk dressed in orange near the bus stop end of the circuit but many German fans cheering for the mercs at the opposite end of the circuit. Are the Germans and Dutch maybe like Scotland and England ?
Usually the drivers weave around on the victory lap to pick up extra rubber from the track but for some reason there wasnt a victory lap at this GP?
Are the Germans and Dutch maybe like Scotland and England ?
Having spent some time in Holland in the late 80’s/early ‘90’s unless things have changed, the Dutch I met didn’t in general like the Germans much.
There’s never a cool down lap at Spa - they’ve always gone up the pit lane the wrong way after the chequered flag. No idea why, seems mad, but it’s not new!
Would they pick up 1.5kg of marbles?
They seem to think that because he did a one-stop, his tyres lost more weight than expected.
That is a real shame for George. Brilliant drive and the best GP I've seen in ages. Spa doesn't fail.
It’s not a shame - he ran an underweight car and was disqualified. That’s how it works.
Er, OK. I meant it's a shame for him. The driver.
They have a standard set of wheels to weigh the cars as far as I understand it.
No idea why
Cus tootling round a 7km lap at cool down speed takes ages.
1.5kg of marbles seems optimistic but you never know. Probably adds 1mm to the ride height too, there's been a few disqualifications for that over the years, and these things are always so marginal
I'd be interested to know what Hamilton's car weighed after the race (it was obviously above the minimum weight) and whether the difference was just down to tyre wear.
What happens, for example, when someone has a tyre failure on the final lap and the tyre disintegrates, do they fit a new tyre in order to weigh the car? If they do, it would make more sense to me to fit a new set of tyres to every car before weighing them at the end.
1.5kg of marbles seems optimistic but you never know.
But when you realise its 375g per tyre, it seems totally possible to me.
Surprised at the result and an enjoyable race. Gutted for Russell.
This article claims that a set of tyres can lose up to 3 kg from wear and that drivers can pick up 2 kg of marbles if they work at it. So, if it had been a regular circuit with a cool-down lap to pick up marbles, Russell probably would have been ok.
Was he the only driver to one stop? Otherwise there should be more DSQs, no?
Tyre wear was probably the deciding factor. But to have the car so close to the limit is crazy IMHO. Over the whole race how much time would 1.5kg actually cost ?♂️
P.s just looked it up 2-3 seconds.
Over the whole race how much time would 1.5kg actually cost ?
At Spa, 2 to 3 tenths per lap. It’s a 44 lap race, Russel won by half a second.
So basically the engineer/s forgot there was no warm down lap at Spa.
Also, did anyone else notice Toto Wolf's expressionless face when the chequered flag dropped? Is it because he knew the car was going to come in underweight? Or was it because he knew that Lewis would be fuming because he hadn't been told that Russell wouldn't be coming in for a second stop and he would be racing him in he finale?
Had Lewis known, he would have got a move on much earlier.
Is it because he knew the car was going to come in underweight?
I doubt it. Toto seemed happy enough all the times I saw him in post race interviews. I don't think you can infer anything from one time when he was probs just concentrating or distracted. By all accounts it seems that the one-stop strategy was made up on the hoof during the race by Russell , their 2 stop strategy had him coming 5th they probably didn't really think about the outcome of a one stop as they only had Friday running as data (Qualis was rainy) and it turns out the track had changed considerably in the meantime. Turns out they're not omniscient
Had Lewis known, he would have got a move on much earlier.
Lewis knew. It was what, about twelve laps to go, when he was about 6-7 seconds back and asked Bono if his pace was enough to catch him and the reply was “it’s close”. If Lewis had thought George was going to make a stop he would already have been comfortably in the net lead.
I think George was just getting a really good run out of La Source and Hamilton was compromising his own line through there. Plus George was fast in sectors 1 and 3 which are power limited; Hamilton was 8 tenths a lap faster in sector 2 where you need grip, but couldn’t pass there, especially when you can’t risk colliding and throwing away a 1-2.
Hamilton seemed to be miffed because the team kept boxing him before he wanted to. Haven’t seen/heard any of the relevant radio though. He did seem unusually downbeat after the race so presumably there’s something interesting in there.
He did seem unusually downbeat after the race
Honestly, climbing out of the car at the end, he looked knackered.
Hamilton drove the perfect race, had it totally under control and executed the team plan perfectly. He lost to a Hail Mary from his team mate. He was robbed (in his eyes)
A very different race to what I expected. Again :0)
I wonder if it’s fuel. By not doing a second stop would George have used more fuel than expected as he did the start finish straight with his foot welded to the bulkhead rather than slowing down and trundling down the pits. His tyres were probably lighter than expected as they will have worn more, as others have said no chance to pick up marbles on the cool down lap. They all soon add up
I think George was just getting a really good run out of La Source and Hamilton was compromising his own line through there. Plus George was fast in sectors 1 and 3 which are power limited; Hamilton was 8 tenths a lap faster in sector 2 where you need grip, but couldn’t pass there, especially when you can’t risk colliding and throwing away a 1-2.
Also, the DRS zone was reduced in length so that made it much harder to pass. I was expecting the McLarens and Verstappen to cruise to the front using DRS to get past the cars in front, just didn't happen.
Lewis asking his engineer if he had the pace to catch Russell with 12 laps to go suggests to me that that was the point at which he knew Russell wasn't going to do a second stop.
I'd heard that he hadn't been informed when the initial decision was made on the other side of the garage, had he known he would have driven harder immediately after his own, second pit stop. As it was, he left the pits thinking that all he had to do was maintain the advantage he thought he had.
I think the glum expression on Lewis's face at the end of the race was the realisation that seeing as he's leaving Mercedes at the end of the season, he might be playing second fiddle for the rest of the season and miht not be included in all the strategic conversations, which is understandable really.
Lots of toilets on site but this guys peeing openly into a plastic urinal nowhere out of sight, as you walk by, that could never happen in the UK maybe just as well
I wonder if it’s fuel
You cant use fuel as ballast, so the cars have to be weighed with an empty tank.
Extra tyre wear didnt help, and nobody thought a one stop was possible. Even at the time it was thought Woody would finish 5th if he stopped, or continued. Little to lose so worth the gamble and it kinda paid off.
Everyone knows that they dont do a cool-down lap at Spa, so that should have been within their calculations, but Mercedes just got it wrong on that car.
Are the cars not inspected after qualifying? They've been in parc ferme since the start of Q1 so it should have been picked up then and Russell demoted to the back of the grid. Or is scrutineering just after the race? I thought they were all weighed, not just some at random.
Although if it is tyres it could well have been legal in quali
Are the cars not inspected after qualifying? They’ve been in parc ferme since the start of Q1 so it should have been picked up then and Russell demoted to the back of the grid.
They'll be weighed with fresh tyres fitted. As the tyres wear, they become lighter. Because Russell did a much longer stint on his tyres, they were more worn and hence lighter than Hamilton's. Normally the drivers try to run over the "marbles" left on the track on their cool-down lap so the tyres pick up pieces of rubber and gain weight again (the engineers on the radio remind them to do a "pick up"). However, because Spa is so long, they don't do the cool-down lap and Russell couldn't do the rubber pick up to get his car back up to legal weight.
Are the cars not inspected after qualifying?
AiUI there's a bit of a random element to scrutineering as they don't have capacity to check every bit of every car - for instance when there were plank wear issues at the US GP last year only a few of the cars were actually checked
Also, the DRS zone was reduced in length so that made it much harder to pass. I was expecting the McLarens and Verstappen to cruise to the front using DRS to get past the cars in front, just didn’t happen.
Yes, I was surprised to see so little action along the Kemmel; wasn’t until I read something this morning that I found out the DRS line had been moved. I approve; it was far too easy to pass there with DRS previously.
"Little to lose so worth the gamble and it kinda paid off." He / they lost 10 points, I'd say that is't 'little'. They also made themselves look pretty silly.
He / they lost 10 points
He lost 25, they lost 18… (while also handing additional points to all their rivals, so the net loss is greater still).
Sainz has signed a multi-year with Williams.
Well that's a bit of a snub for Audi - and it'll be interesting to see how he shapes up against Albon.
So Antonelli to Merc then?
Audi seem to be falling apart before they even get on the grid! Hulk may have been better staying at Haas.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/carlos-sainz-joins-williams-f1-2025
Well that’s a bit of a snub for Audi
Yeah, seems more of a vote of non-confidence in Audi than anything. As they say, predictions are tough, especially about the future, but on current trends, a rebuilding independent team using customer Merc engines seems a better bet than a works team in disarray trying to build their own engines. With the budget cap, Audi can't spend more money on the car than Williams and the Merc engine is a safer bet than a new Audi engine.
So Antonelli to Merc then?
They're surely waiting to snap up Perez ?
(Insert emoji of choice here)
Not sure where i head this but Sainz is meant to have a clause in his contract with Williams that if Merc or Redbull come knocking before 2025 or before 2026 then he can just leave Williams and go drive for one of them with no ramifications
More here but you cant take what Planet F1 say as gospel
https://www.planetf1.com/news/carlos-sainz-williams-contract-length-break-clause
So Antonelli to Merc then?
Far from certain as Toto is determined to get Max's signature.
But a GR -v- KA combo would have shades of Alonso -v- Hamilton so could be fun! 🙂
I'd read about that clause on Twitter too - can't reference as Twitter is useless for finding things shown in your feed.
Not sure where i head this but Sainz is meant to have a clause in his contract with Williams that if Merc or Redbull come knocking before 2025 or before 2026 then he can just leave Williams and go drive for one of them with no ramifications
Contracts always have escape clauses on both sides (Ricciardo's with McLaren may have been an exception.) Drivers will generally have an escape clause that they can join a team that finishes ahead in the championship, but it will always come down to money. Any contract can be escaped if you have enough money.
Yeah, seems more of a vote of non-confidence in Audi than anything.
Zero points on the board, slowest car on the grid, and a top-level reshuffle that looks second to only Alpine’s level of headless-chickening… I can’t imagine they’re inspiring anyone’s confidence right now. I imagine Hulk was offered a hefty salary and can’t lose: an outside chance of the stars aligning and ending up with a decent car, or a presumably big fat pension-swelling pay rise for business as usual in the lower midfield.
I think Williams was always the wise choice for Sainz if he couldn’t get a seat at Merc or Red Bull. In fact I’m not sure Red Bull actually belongs in that sentence.
Contracts always have escape clauses on both sides (Ricciardo’s with McLaren may have been an exception.) Drivers will generally have an escape clause that they can join a team that finishes ahead in the championship, but it will always come down to money. Any contract can be escaped if you have enough money.
Of course there are always get out clauses for both driver and team
This one from what ive read has no money/performance of driver clauses etc... involved, its simply if they come a knockin Sainz is gonna be a rockin (off to Merc/Redbull)
I'm pleasantly surprised about the Sainz news. Nice signing for Williams that, James is doing a great job so far. Just have to hope the car is quick next year.
Interesting to see who is quicker between him and Albon. Always felt they were pretty similar.
tomhoward
Full Member
Over the whole race how much time would 1.5kg actually cost ?
At Spa, 2 to 3 tenths per lap. It’s a 44 lap race, Russel won by half a second.
Bernie Collins reckoned it was worth half a tenth per lap.
Assuming the worn tyres were the cause, he also didn't have a weight advantage for the whole race, just the latter stages.
I’m so happy for Williams!!!!!!! Really hope that two decent drivers can help the team develop.
Not sure where i head this
On the previous page? (Insert wink emoji)
Assuming the worn tyres were the cause, he also didn’t have a weight advantage for the whole race, just the latter stages.
Reading between the lines from things which Karun has said it could also have been his plank wear was too high as well. Many times during the race several cars were striking the ground hard through Eau Rouge/Raidilion and you could see remnants of the plank on the track.
I cant find if the data was released, so it might be that many cars failed on this. The FIA may have decided to turn a blind eye to that part of scrutineering, as it wouldnt have looked good for the sport if the whole top 10 had have been DSQ.