to @live' on £71 a week, my mate 'sam' who signs on the same day as me, he has a real struggle to feed himself some weeks. His leccy and gas take £25 a week at the moment, water rates another £5 --i wonder how many would last long on £40 for all their needs , week in week out-- he has a young daughter that stays with him every other weekend-- so he skimps a lot for her to have a small treat.He has been informed that after april he must find £11 pw bedroom tax, as his flat has a cupboard room classed as a bedroom, also he will have to find another £3 council tax-- apart from that he's doing grand !!
what benefit is he on?
JSA-
why's he paying council tax and not getting housing benefit?
How old is he?
Does he have any skills at all?
im currently in between jobs. at the moment due to an injury i am on employment support allowence because my doctor says i am unfit to work. however i am still trying to find a job that may be detrimental to my health. i am 22 so only receive the lower rate of £56 a week. it is a real struggle. you know you are on your ass when someday's you have to choose between eating and having electricity.
its a struggle, before my injury i was finding shot term temporary work. and maybe worked for 1.5 of the 3 months leading up to Christmas. currently i am struggling to find anything.
i am not a oxygen thief or layabout, i take any work offered and look for jobs on a 2/3 times daily basis.
🙁 the only thing that keeps me going is my bike. and at the min im fairly struggling to grip the bars properly so not as much fun as it was before Christmas 🙁
he is late thirties, ex forces, so his skills are not instantly transferable, he gets housing benefit, and does not pay counciltax at the moment-- but like all of us--come 1st april all this is changing radically--
watsontony-- yeah , people really have no concept until it happens to them-- the bike is a great release to have-- my mate can't ride his--knees gone after his army days-- what makes it worse is all the shite remarks from people who no **** all about poverty !!
£6.19 per hour (NMW), 40 hours per week
£247.6 weekly Gross
£18.35 tax
£12.16 NI
[b]217.09 per week[/b] take home
Z 11 --your answer to everything eh ?
How do you know a)there's a McDonalds near him and b)they're hiring, you condescending arse?
It was certainly the answer when I didn't have a job!
Minimum wage is better than £56 per week, would you not agree?
Depends on your rent and other benefits tbh
sucks for sure 🙁
We've had a hard few years with GF struggling to find work at times, and then supporting her through teacher training course last year (so we could try and turn things around) on just my income but by comparison we have it easy, really feel for anyone only just scraping by.
Gas+Elec bill seems really high though, is there anything he could do to help bring that down?
£25 a week seems high... Ours is less than £70 a month for both in winter and often less than £40 during summer and that's for 2 of us in 100 year old 3 bed terrace with no double glazing, and wooden floors downstairs with no carpet - admittedly sometimes we are cold but that's why we have jumpers.
man alive-- Z 11 --you really are clueless !!
Are those sort of places doing 40hr contracts these days?
Last I heard it was all zero hour contracts
Go back to parents and look for work and start again
Why feed him [ the troll] not the OPs friend
Its tough out there for some for sure
Its not made easier by folk not understanding the reality of the poverty trap of benefits or the lack of opportunities out there.
he is on the wretched card meters--you have to pay premium rate on them, he sometimes runs out of gas, sometimes leccy, then he's round other peoples, if you not working you spend more time indoors as a rule ...
oh bum, card/prepaid meters are awful 🙁
grantway--his dad is dead, and his mum is in a home, sometimes wonder about folk -- do they have so little life experience ?
i think some people do not understand/empathise with others hardships, even when your poor you still have your pride, and dignity-- they are not bought and sold like commodities-- this is reality for a significant number of people --like he says--when he was in the army, he never imagined he would end up being called a scrounger etc !!
Does he not get a ex force pension? Most ex forces mates get something every month.
Its tough out there for some for sureIts not made easier by folk not understanding the reality of the poverty trap of benefits or the lack of opportunities out there.
+1
The Daily Hate has a lot to answer for scapegoating the unfortunate so the middle classes can feel smug about themselves.
Until recently I was working and getting less than that. £120 for 3 days per week of which £60 went in rent (for a bedsit with shared kitchen and bathroom) leaving £60 to live on.
OK, I was working part time through choice but why should I pay tax (it's recent enough that I was still in the income tax threshold at that wage) when people can get more in benefits than I was earning? (not enough hours for me to get tax credit and no children)
.
I do sympathise a little, as I know it's hard, I've been at the stage where I've just been buying food for the day because food for a week would cost too much. However, benefits need to be set a level where you can just about manage, as sounds like he can, just. It shouldn't be a comfortable life, but enough to get you the very basics until you get another job (pensions are a different matter, I'm just refering to unemployment benefits etc). I realise this may make me unpopular amongst the lefties...
We pay around £100 a month for our gas and electricity (on card meters in a rented flat) I reckon, but then we're out of the house most of the time at work. I can imagine you could spend loads more if you're sat at home applying for jobs on the computer and making cups of tea.
And just because companies are advertising jobs doesn't mean the OP's friend will get it if he applies. I'm sure he's applied for plenty of jobs.
he is still fighting to get his pension-- or part pension-- that is really doing his head in !!
andrewh - Member
I was working part time through choice but why should I pay tax (it's recent enough that I was still in the income tax threshold at that wage) when people can get more in benefits than I was earning? (not enough hours for me to get tax credit and no children)I do sympathise a little, as I know it's hard, I've been at the stage where I've just been buying food for the day because food for a week would cost too much. However, benefits need to be set a level where you can just about manage, as sounds like he can, just. It shouldn't be a comfortable life, but enough to get you the very basics until you get another job (pensions are a different matter, I'm just refering to unemployment benefits etc). I realise this may make me unpopular amongst the lefties...
Whole point of this thread is to show how difficult it is to survive on benefits and your comment is 'it should be difficult to survive on benefits' because your part time job had a shit wage? The problem is wages haven't risen to meet living costs. Not that benefits are too high.
And surely £120 for 3 days is way below minimum wage?
Yes it should be difficult. Not impossible, but difficult. Remeber those of us on rubbish wages (my example was to show some working people are on less than JSA) are still contributing to them. And benefits have risen faster than wages the last few years.
.
£120 for 3 days was take-home pay. I know JSA is taxed too but the OP's friend won't pay tax until he gets a job and his income goes up (but the JSA will count in his year's earnings) And as the OP didn't mention rent (assuming housing benefit?) it means that my weekly income after rent was below his on the JSA. I was merely trying to point out that I know what it's like living on rubbish income, but that it is doable. Not easily, but it is doable.
its easy to say
6.19 per hour (NMW), 40 hours per week£247.6 weekly Gross
£18.35 tax
£12.16 NI217.09 per week take home
when there is work about im the first on the phone/email trying my best to get the job. unfortunately i am not the only person in my area thats in the same position. ZULU- you fancy offering me a job and finding out im not a work shy ****. or maybe if i send you my cv you will be able to find me 40 hours a week easily enough. national minimum wage is not a problem, i would even work for less.
my example was to show some working people are on less than JSA)
Its impossible to be on less than JSA when working as you should sign on and still get a fiver more as the first £5 earned is free - you were in excess of JSA as I gave a table with rates. You failed to show this
As you claim it was some while ago - I am guessing 5 + years if you actually paid tax on it so the rates were even lower
FWIW family tax credits and working tax were implemented so you cannot be worse on in work than on benefits
IIRC there were some anomalies but you required a massive family and they affected a tiny fraction of 1 %
Oh and given your income you would have been eligible for HB as well as it is income not work based
As a family of three our gas, electricity and water bills are lower than his.
As you claim it was some while ago - I am guessing 5 + years if you actually paid tax on it so the rates were even lowerFWIW family tax credits and working tax were implemented so you cannot be worse on in work than on benefits
About 3 yrs ago.
And you can't get tax credits if you have no children and work fewer than 30hrs per week.
We are digressing, I did it through choice, I liked the time more than the money and I had the fallback otion of returning to the parent's place, which I know not everyone has.
The point I was trying to make is that it is possible to live off that sort of money. Benefits should just be there to tide people over until they can get another job, if they are receiving money from the taxpayer yes they should have to scrimp and get by on the minimum (again, excluding pensions from this)
no andrew it is not enough to exist on-- his washing machine is broke= so he uses mine, and other s, he goes hungry a lot-- he is too proud to admit it, but thats how it is !-- Edukator-- you live en france -non?-- so what is your point about utility charges--here the poorest pay the most-- like for most things....
And you can't get tax credits if you have no children and work fewer than 30hrs per week.
Thats why I never mentioned it but did mention Housing Benefit which you could have claimed
Do you at least accept that you got more than if you were on benefits as its really not even debatable - it would still be true today never mind then when benefits were less
Those card meters are evil-- pure and simple-- if you live in certain postcodes you have no choice !! My water and sewerage is £40 a month-- so i guess he is underpaying !!-- this is a guy who has served in bosnia, iraq,six counties, he has great skills , not very applicable to civvy street !!
As a family of three our gas, electricity and water bills are lower than his.
You're probably on DD rather than a pre-pay meter which will have a much higher per unit cost (to rip off the poor, so the middle classes can have lower bills).
When I graduated 9 years ago I had to live on £5 an hour for six months, worked out about £160 a week income. It was a nice student flat so rent was about £75 a week and I had to pay a half share of the council tax as I was working.
I couldn't do it. Had a huge overdraft by the time I found a salaried job.
No dependants. I'd only just got up to my income allowance for that financial year too, so I'd not been paying any income tax on my income either. Absolutely brassic. My bicycle wheels were falling apart commuting to work 20 miles away for the first month - this was the only way I could get to work. My first salary installment paid for some serviceable wheels!
You're probably on DD rather than a pre-pay meter which will have a much higher per unit cost (to rip off the poor, so the middle classes can have lower bills).
...or he is, allegedly, in France. So very hard to use his example as a useful parallel.
i am amazed. its like some people are implying the op is lying. Really pisses me off..
yep, thats what i assumed jamie-- so his point is eerr not very informative/relevant/edukative ?
Talking to a rental agency bod the other week about the so called bedroom tax, he said they rarely rent to housing benefit claimants, that they wouldnt take a decrease in rent to keep the tenant as they take a percentage of the rent each week,and if the tennant asked for a reduction in rent becauise the councuil wa paying less then tough, they need to move then.
There is going to be a massive wake up call for all the buy to let lot, who need a guaranteed income each week to pay the mortgage,as tennants move on or away from the more expensive areas, and hopefuilly a reduction in private landlords rental incomes, some overcharging for unkempt places, that are a serious risk to residents health and safety.
Mcburgers do have jobs available, but they usually want people with experience of food hygene regs, and customer service, same can be said for most jobs, they want experience off you, and some proof of training.
Last time i checked locally Mcd's had 500+ applications on file and they estimated they had a one PT job about every 2-3 months
The rent one will be interesting as there is no cheaper housing to move to generally- however if you are homeless we will pick up the tab
i would imagine this policy [ and giving the money direct to claimants rather than landlords] will cost us more money than we save
rudebwoy - Memberman alive-- Z 11 --you really are clueless !!
Seems a bit harsh. OP's friend finds it hard to live on benefits, with a breakdown of costs - and it does sound tough.
But anyone who looks at that and *doesn't* (at least internally) start with "what jobs are going, minimum wage would be better than benefits" is an eejit. The answer may be "because he can't work etc etc", and fair enough, but the first answer is always "are there any jobs in x?"
What a surprise! The usual clueless suspects demonstrating their complete unfamiliarity with the real world, their total lack of empathy, their totally misguided sense of superiority, and casual malice! 🙄
There's some people on here would be a shoe in at Tory central office.
but the first answer is always "are there any jobs in x?"
But why would you assume that that has not occurred to the OP's mate to ask that question?
I'm sure looking for a job is at the front of his mind.
It's oh so easy to blame people for not being able to find a job when you've never had trouble yourself. Maybe we could arrange for this guy to talk to Z11 on the phone and explain it?
Excellent thread OP.
the guy has military experience(11 years) plus another eight working with mine clearance, training dogs to find explosives, he is great with dogs-- but back here he is lost-- PTSD has been diagnosed, so he spent a couple of years on sickness-but finds himself back on JSA, not ideal but hey there are lots worse off !
I think you are all labouring under the mistaken belief that he believes what he says rather than he craves a reaction to what he says.
http://singletrackworld.com/members/zulu-eleven/profile/
I’m me, and no-one else but me, my comments do not reflect on anyone but me, and are not the opinion of my employer, my family and friends, and more often than not even my own opinion
Why react it is what he wants/needs for reason known only to himself.
I actually think Z11's analysis just highlights the problems of the benefit trap. By my reckoning the NMW is less than benefits, that £71 a week hides the value of his housing benefit, council tax benefit, free prescriptions etc. anyone receiving this will do a quick calc and work out that Z11's £217 a week is less than their benefit.
Either way living on the equivalent of 220 odd quid a week sucks and I feel for the umemployed/low waged.
The rent one will be interesting as there is no cheaper housing to move to generally- however if you are homeless we will pick up the tab
Its easy for the tennant, if they can stick it out, the tennant stays put, paying the reduced rent every week, and builds up an arrear, after notifying the landlord, letting agent, that the money they have has been reduced ,eventually the landlord or letting agency applies to the courts for the tennant to be evicted, after a few months this is done, by that time the temnnant should hopefully have got somewher else cheaper or a job or a pay rise.
Then the landlord or letting agency has the problem of reletting and paying back the mortgage arrears.
A whole waste of large amounts of time and stress for all.Probably causing civil unrest and major family crisis for all.
I take it this is a response to my thread that was deleted. I'm not taking issue with the thread being deleted and don't want to stir up a hornets nest - I appreciate the mods decision (and no I wasn't given a warning).
However, as antagonistic as my OP might have seemed , I was asking the question as to whether anyone actually knew people struggling to make ends meet on benefits , as I don't see much of it round my way. Obviously an unfair system will create big divides, I just generally see the easy side of it and was genuinely curious as to how many see the hard side of it - wasn't implying it didn't exist.
i started this thread in response to a now deleted one by the artist fromerly known who dida trolling type queston along the lines of "does anybody know of someone struggling on beenefits" --he had some anecdote/stereotype single mother who someone was gossiping about her alleged ****lessness-- aha --there is my answer--- but you did seem to be trolling with your opening titles etc !
Rudeboy, thanks for the rant.
Get your mate to look into social tariffs. My mate when unemployed did very well out of it. Not only cheaper energy but was also able to have central heating and double glazing fitted with the energy grants from the suppliers.
Why is he having a problem claiming his army pension. There shouldn't be a problem unless he was kicked out. Redundancy payments are normally generous enough to get you back on your feet again. If he has served his time he would also be entitled to resettlement training so he has a skill to bring into civilian life, why hasn't this happened?
My skills weren't transferable when I left the army, not much call for EOD in Tesco's. I have never been unemployed doing any job to bring in money including mucking out pig sheds. Both my brothers are handicapped from birth and they have managed to work for most of their lives too so please don't tell me there is nothing out there.
No anecdote or stereotype involved - she lives 200yds from me
ok why are there so many unemployed then - is it really your claim there are jobs for everyone 😯
EDIT:It had many stereotype she smoked weed, she was single mum, she had a part time partner, she bought fags by the hundreds and she drank loads and she was buying an Ipad which you found out from Faceboook- why so coy?
the real issue is that wages are below poverty levels-- £71 plus HB worth £68, plus council tax (£20 week ) means that taking home £160 would see him £1 better off -- for working in some menial job-- not that he is workshy-- but there aint much pride in working for benefits , that also assumes he would be selected-- they often want under 25 's for cheapness, maliability etc...
This is a rich country , but the wealth is not even remotely distributed in any manner that would be called 'fair'-- the inequalities that started to narrow after the war-- were blown apart under thatcherism and have continued on that trajectory ever since-- tory, new labour, tory-- same shit , different smell !
+1
craigxxl, not sure when you left, but i can assure you he is struggling to get his 'entitlement'--he has suffered with PTSD-- he goes to a rehab every six months , which seems to help, but it is not an easy process as you seem to imply-- he lives in a council flat-- its ok, but needs to be heated, as for work-- he is not qualified for any trade, has multiple skills, but not paper ones !
+2
I've been out of work due to illness for about 18 months. I was fortunate/u fortunate enough to be able to move in with parents.
I was living off £71 ESA a week which was more than enough for me as due to my health I was hardly going out.
However when I became better obviously I wanted work. I applied for 40+ jobs and managed to get one Interview (as it was a woman I used to manage doing the interview) I tried a few agencies who mostly were useless, but the last one I went to there was a guy I managed previously working there and he helped me out.
For 10 days before Christmas I was working for an online jewellers packing orders for NMW. (Which I got taxed on where I shouldn't have)
I have then gone 2 weeks without any work or any other money and yesterday started a job for nhs direct, again NMW. I won't get paid for another 2 weeks, so in total I will have gone 4 weeks without getting any money.
I took these jobs as they meant income, both not what I want to do. I was looking at all sorts, I even applied for a job cleaning endoscopes for the nhs!
So with my experience there are jobs out there, you just need to try and try. Benefits should be a temporary fix not a solution, they should be a last resort. They shouldn't be taken for granted or used as a 'wage' as some people do think.
I do think child benefit cuts should go further, it'd stop some taking the option of having a kid, getting a place and doing **** all. I don't care what you say, it does happen!
Your mate's situation sucks for sure.
What makes it even worse (for me anyway) is the sheer number of people in a similar situation.
When I was a student I had some mild trouble with my ticker which took 5 months to resolve. I couldn't be signed back on at work until they got to the bottom of it, which meant that I was on SSP for 5 months. I think it was about £60 a week at the time.
Even as a student, I couldn't afford to live on anything close to £60 a week.
Ended up living with friends, sleeping behind their sofa in a horribly damp and cold room. My meals consisted of a trip to Sainsbury's late at night to find anything which looked like it would fill me up and costed no more than 20p. If someone offered to buy me a decent sandwich it was the most amazing treat.
I managed that for a couple of months before I buckled and had to go to family for financial help (
they were of course upset that I hadn't from the start).
It seems doable if you work it out on paper, but it really isn't. We often think of those out of work and on benefits as having a choice, but with SSP I really can't see how anyone would have that choice (other than through fraud etc).
I remember when I became unemployed, going from a good wage to f&ck all was a real shock and as I was out of work for longer than I thought I would be it got really tough on about £50 a week. Mortgage not getting paid, gas and electric to pay for etc etc.
There are people out there that do have no idea at all and I ended up taking anything I could get and blagging my way back into work. I think its even harder now.
I am not in a position to help but not everyone on benefits is an oxygen thief. I hope the that you get sorted with some work soon, hopefully that will give you some security and a better future.
Yes, I left a while ago and faced employers who didn't want to employ ex-forces full stop. I took the worst jobs and proved myself to them to get better jobs or improve my CV so I could move on.
Lots of my mates are still leaving the army and aren't experiencing the same problems. Civvy street is still a shock to them but like most others they just get on with it. For some reason a high percentage of my mates who have left in the last year are doing bin collections through agencies. If he is struggling so much he needs to go to his local British Legion who will be more than willing to help for free.
the real issue is that wages haven't changed, but the cost of living has soared. my oh has had a pay freeze for 4 years, while energy prices have gone thru the roof, despite energy companies making massive profits. open the daily fail any day of the week and the stories will be how middle income families are being squeezed while prices rise. come on you can't have it both ways, its not that benefits are too high, the cost of living is, and wages are too low.
I work with young people,they are staying on at school as there are no jobs,even at minimum wage. Mcd's aren't hiring and indeed are seen as a plum job because of their rates.And that is in a middle class area,so must be harder for somebody in the situation above
OP; Hope your mates situation improves for the better soon.
Double post 😳
pingu66 - Member
I am not in a position to help but [s]not everyone on benefits is an[/s] [i]the vast majority of people on benefits are not[/i] oxygen thieves.
I do think child benefit cuts should go further, it'd stop some taking the option of having a kid, getting a place and doing **** all.
no, it would increase child poverty in one of the richest nations on earth.
but as long as it makes you feel better...........
my army pension won't be payable until I reach the age of 60.
So doubt he'd be entitled to anything for a long time.
Tell him hang in there, it's always darkest before the dawn
rudebwoy - Member
grantway--his dad is dead, and his mum is in a home, sometimes wonder about folk -- do they have so little life experience ?
Hello then correctly explain first Rudeboy you did not say any of this at first
so give the correct info so we may correctly advise
http://m.ippr.org/articles/56/8893/budget-2012-breaking-down-the-benefits-bill one click away. 3% on jsa, 3% on esa (poorly people), 4% on income support. its them scrounging pensioners, never done a days work in their lives....stop their benefits!
So, genuine non-troll question....
If take home on a full time job on minimum wage is £217 pw with rent & council tax contributions to find out of that and the basic state pension is £107pw what would you like JSA increased to, if increased is indeed what you would like to see it?
Subsidiary question - if you were in charge of the Work and Pensions ministry and had no more funds in the pot coming from the treasury (and assuming the bureaucracy money pit could not be rung dry of any further savings) what would you cut to make those increases?
what would you cut to make those increases?
the throats of Tories.
However, as antagonistic as my OP might have seemed , I was asking the question as to whether anyone actually knew people struggling to make ends meet on benefits , as I don't see much of it round my way. Obviously an unfair system will create big divides, I just generally see the easy side of it and was genuinely curious as to how many see the hard side of it - wasn't implying it didn't exist.
I've never really spent that much time with people on benefits, mainly due to luck really. The one that immediately springs to mind was a friend of a friend, who died of pneumonia in his mid 30's a few years back. If you met him socially, like I did, you might just see the easy side of it (never more than a foot away from a case of stella). The hard side of it (seldom eating and not heating his flat) might be invisible.
what would you cut to make those increases?
Well if Brakes' wonderful idea din't bear fruit perhaps the extra [higher rate] tax relief on pension contributions
I've never really spent that much time with people on benefits, mainly due to luck really.
I've just re-read that and it makes me sound like a bit of a ****. So I've left it in 😉
I've just re-read that and it makes me sound like a bit of a ****.
Yeah, I thought that too. 🙂
The issue isn't benefits being too generous but job subsidy by the government. NMW should be livable wage with no need for tax credit top-ups. Those of us with pension funds might have to get used to a lower return on our portfolios to pay for it.
Squaring that circle would get my vote. At the rate the system is proceeding there will be large scale civil unrest this year.
Blatantly stolen from another forum, but I liked this:
[img] 
[/img]
I've never really spent that much time with people on benefits, mainly due to luck really.I've just re-read that and it makes me sound like a bit of a [b]tory bore[/b]. So I've left it in
filled in the blanks