Forum menu
Either a troll, or you are indeed David Brent.
You're sort of bouncing between extremes of poor management, stmind.
Miles too soft, as you're letting this wee beaut raid your personal chocolate cache with impugnity - should have thrown a right bollocking into him there as a minimum (would be an off-the-clock straightener in other lines of work, ie Ton's). Then having this fester you're going way OTT and looking to insta-fire him on dubious grounds, when it's not even clear there's a performance issue.
Need to take a step back and steer a steadier course - make your mind up about the guy absent the chocolate nonsense (get some advice from your boss if that's feasible). Don't be too hard on yourself, either (despite the pish-taking here) - managing folk is hard and getting good at it means a lot of mistakes along the way.
Also don't leave the key for your drawer where anybody can get it. What do you expect will happen?
I think the OP is getting an unfairly harsh time. It's political correctness gone mad.
Don't list to Jambalaya there's more reasons than discrimination. Whistling Blowing for one which is kind of what this is.
I don't get it. What aspect of this is Whistling Blowing?
whats the difference then, once you decide to take a set of keys and open up a locker that does not belong to you , where do you think that course of action is going?
you can't fire him based on speculation, pretty sure he'll have you for that.And stop buying poncy overpriced Mellow Birds, you're not fooling anyone
Do food manufacturers follow GMP/GDP regs?
Doesn't matter if it wouldn't have really affected the product, it should still be a non-conformance that gets people asking questions about why it happened, because it could have affected the batch. Small deviations beg questions in regards to other procedures as well - we'd have the MHRA/FDA right up our arses for that, if it wasn't properly dealt with.
What grade was the acid?
Also "food safe" doesn't mean that much. I'm guessing it means that it's been manufactured to a spec fit for human consumption, what grade was it? By entering the wrong area, was there any way it could have been added in the incorrect quantities? Are there checks and balances to make sure people are going to notice this, before they decide to pour half a litre of whatever into a brewing vat?
Our facilities place is run by a bunch of ex squaddies, who'd have a ****ing fit if something like this ever happened. But it wouldn't happen in the first place because of that attitude, they're used to dealing with all sorts of nasty stuff in a responsible manner.
I don't get it. What aspect of this is Whistling Blowing?
Yeah I read one of his posts wrong. 😳
whats the difference then, once you decide to take a set of keys and open up a locker that does not belong to you , where do you think that course of action is going?
"It was a personal locker? I wasn't informed I thought it's just where we kept the staff chocolates"
Stealing is bad but you need to prove it v
...you've come on her asking for advice of which there has been some excellent stuff said, but you're moaning about trust issues etc, you've not listened to a word that's been said or even acknowledged any of the excellent advice given - even from someone who underwrites employment law !
Take some critism like a professional would - thats management !
Talk to the guy that's good management and talk to the owners or whoever is senior to you and ask for training
...or just be a typical **** manager that everyone thinks is a c nut
Good luck
Is this a new take on victim blaming 😉
Yeah I read one of his posts wrong.
Buggar, I had prepared a massive rant !
A good friend of mine created, grew, ran then sold a business for £50m. He gave me the following advice
"Hire slowly, fire quickly"
Getting the right people is tough. The wrong people cost a business grreatly and absorb management time both of which hold a company back.
Management isn't easy. In fact it's bloody hard. There are plenty of mediocre bosses around, but very few great ones. I've been lucky enough to have plenty of experience to know the difference.
Thirteen years ago, I had to manage a spoiled sixteen year old girl, who's builder daddy played golf with my senior boss. She had me by the balls and she knew it, right up until she threw a hissy fit at me in the middle of an open-plan office and called me a c*** when I asked her to return a client's phone call. I could have and should have marched her out of the door there and then, instead I didn't and the problem got worse. It eventually resolved itself (and I kid you not) when she passed her driving test and drove shitfaced through someone's living room. Aside from superficial injury, she was physically fine, but the PTSD ensured she was too badly shaken to work and her resignation was accepted as by this time she'd brought the firm into disrepute.
Case two involved a young lad who was working for a newly promoted twenty-something with plenty of banter, but no empathy, guile or people skills. His subordinate was a reasonably bright lad, destined for better things, but the boss in question simply did not inspire any respect or invest any confidence whatsoever. Of course, the young lad quickly became "a problem", was regularly set up to fail so he bid his time and eventually walked, having compiled enough evidence to ensure his soon to be ex-boss was dropped in the shit and subject to a disciplinary. Oh, that lad was me.
Sometimes a quiet word works wonders, if the employee is genuinely on the fiddle and taking the mick, then set clear boundaries and ensure that they know exactly where the line is.
Stolen the coffee that was bought especially for me, and put it in his own little pot and replaced with nasty stale Nescafe decaf, as if i wouldnt notice Azzuro Intenso had changed size , colour and flavour.
Sack that lad already and buy some decent coffee!
Joking aside get a grip and sit the lad down, tell him to stop being an arse as petty shit like this might get him fired.
If that conversation had already taken place and this continued I guarantee you anyone here with any management experience would think very differently about your original post.
First off OP, fair play for coming on here and posting - it shows that you are aware of your lack of experience and that is a good start. In addition, you are open about this lack of experience and that is also a positive.
There are several experienced managers giving you advice based on their likely successes [b][i][u]and[/b][/i][/u] likely mistakes too. Ignore this at you peril. As a manager of some experience, I would suggest that one of my best bits of advice is listen to voices of experience, you will learn so much from them. In summary, they are telling you this: -
1. Legalities aside of your ability to sack him - he doesn't seem to have been managed, so this may be unfair
2. Despite your conviction, the evidence is circumstantial regarding theft
3. Theft is wrong - no one disagrees, but you have let this go to far before proposing drastic action
4. Address this inaction now with an informal warning and monitor his behaviour going forward and take more formal action - including proper investigation if needed
Drac, PJM1974 and Broess have said it well. Take the time to read it slowly and deliberately tomorrow. Imagine they are telling someone else not you and you will likely see it is good advice.
All the best in managing this .
J
2. Despite your conviction, the evidence is circumstantial regarding theft
plus 1 and all the rest telling you
no evidence all circumstantial
Tom_W1987 - Food manufacturing do follow GMP/GDP, but it's a few rungs down from pharma/biotech.
Then you get to cosmetics....
You do realise that kind of petty theft is "dominance issues". He may as well be shitting in your slippers !!
Well hope you did read the advice, moving straight to sacking is a big leap. Especially with no real evidence. If you don't have the balls to ask him whats been going on then you should probably be the one thinking of your future as a manager.
new job is 4 months old and I have no experience in managing a group of lower grade manual workers.
Is this is a troll then you are playing it very straight, if not you are seriously out of touch, those lower grade urchins are actually people. You need to treat them like that.
Is the OPs story a metaphor for something else, like the allotment thread?
A friend of mine did actually get sacked for allegedly strealing a bag of crisps. Evidence was sketchy to say the least and ultimately they were using it as an excuse to get rid of him.
I helped him through the tribunal process - it cost the company a few grand to settle before it went too far.
How many threads are you going to start about someone "stealing" your miniature Snickers?
To me it's like its some sort of joke to him, getting one over and he doesn't respect you OP. He clearly thinks it's humour however do you have ANY concrete proof?
Would you have a 100% case if he felt aggrevied and took you to tribunal?
Sit him down, formal warning then any transgressions move the process swiftly on. People who muckup tend to have a habit.
However without firm proof your leaving yourself open.
Sacking someone because you thought they ate your sweets isn't enough.
hora +1
miniature Snickers?
Sometimes, I like to eat fun size Mars bars and pretend i'm a giant.
I also like to eat king size Mars bars and pretend i'm a dwarf.
When I eat the tiny ones out of a box of Celebrations I pretend to be dinosaur.
Will I get sacked?
Assuming this isn't a premature and unfunny April Fools... yes the lad's behaviour isn't acceptable and yes he should know that without being told but as a manager and an adult you should have taken the time to explain this to him and warn him about it if necessary.
It sounds like you don't actually want any management responsibility (although if you're new in the role wasn't that part of what you'd agree to take on?) but that's still no reason to potentially **** up someone's life over what are pretty trivial acts.
Once upon of time you could just have had him hanged for it.Or at least transported to Australia. I miss those days.
Take on the Lad, take on the challenge and manage him.
Anyone can fire. It's much harder to change, manage and develop someone.
Bloody sweets. Sod the coffee, that is slightly funny.
In my first job at Woolworths head office I thought my boss was drinking too much coffee, she looked wrecked. So I started making her decaff without her knowing, she didn't spot it and I think she looked better for it. I told her when my feet were firmly under the table 😀
Monday morning present him with a tub of Celebration s explain they are for him and explain how the future works. Explain about trust and what you expect, does he like his job?
No-one is expecting you to just rolover and take it, but perhaps a Kinder approach to your staff would work better.
No-one is expecting you to just rolover and take it, but perhaps a Kinder approach to your staff would work better.
Aye, it's bound tae. 🙂
Sacking someone because you thought they ate your sweets is[s]n't enough[/s] a bit sad.
😥
[i]Take on the Lad, take on the challenge and manage him.
Anyone can fire. It's much harder to change, manage and develop someone. [/i]
[through gritted teeth]
Hora's talking a lot of sense there.
[/through gritted teeth]
I'm with the rest, firing someone out the blue for a couple of quid's worth of chocolate sounds like you don't actually want to deal with a problem, just make it go away.
Firing somebody for petty theft is a bit extreme.
Sounds like he just doesn't know how to behave in the workplace. Or in public sector speak - he is lacking in the Impact on Others and Self Awareness competencies.
Some people grow up in terrible homes, maybe nobody ever told him this was wrong. Tell him exactly why what he is doing is stealing, and why that is wrong, and the potential consequences. Use small words.
Good luck !
even from someone who underwrites employment law !
😀
Would you take engineering advice from someone that insures cars?
What would Alan Sugar do?
What would Alan Sugar do?
Excellent advice.
Phone him at 5:30 a.m, have him meet you at 5.40a.m in a bizarre location ,Sit the lad down, make a face like Sid James bawbag, patronize the boy with some shit puns and some stories about how rich you are, point it him in a vaguely threatening manner to build a bit of dramatic tension , give him a final warning and then send him on a "treat experience".
That should do it.
I suspect the OP's problem is going to be lack of evidence.
My advice is get yourself some CCTV and a box of Ferrero Rocher and wait for the bee to come to the honey.
What would Alan Sugar do?
Sack him by email?
[img]
[/img]
April fools day joke, I assume
STM - you're forgetting the crucial singletrackworld liberal minded woolly life is rainbows and unicorns mentality... Where you can be stolen from and give the culprit a big smile and hug them for having a harder life than you..it is therefore you who is to blame... Not doing a simple job properly is the fault of training and therefore the manager's fault.
It's not a world I've lived in either.
[quote=bails said]What would Alan Sugar do?
Sack him by email?
He'd never get it 🙂
Dez
hiring and firing costs money and management time for an issue that could be dealt with with a 2 minute conversation.
No unicorns were harmed in the drafting of this rebuttal.
There's a significant piece of evidence* the OP isn't telling us...
Did he leave the discarded sweetie wrappers in the container?
Yes ... sacking too good for him... give him death by a thousand cuts
No ... He's clearly not all bad and should be given a chance
Unlike me, who takes great delight in leaving the wrappers to pee off the Mrs/MiL 😈
*apart from the fact that the OP got he's got sod all in the way of evidence anyway
It's not a world I've lived in either.
Well, that world may well be dead and buried now - if you look at a lot of recent legal changes re discrimination and generally trying to prevent abuse of power you may find that that old world is largely being rejected.
Emotional intelligence is increasingly valued in organisations - lack of it has a distinct habit of hitting the bottom line as productivity drops when motivated employees lose energy and the best employees leave for an employer who has the sense to treat them like a human being. Stress from lousy management imposed a massive cost on the NHS and welfare costs at a time when we can least afford it.
The Millennials appear (rightly or wrongly) to be focussing on this so this change will come about whether you like it or not.
Take it from me, being sacked on the basis of someone else's assumption that you've done something wrong or simply and inadvertently breached their values will do enormous damage to that individual, their self-confidence, career progression and lifetime earnings... being a manager and the power and authority you're given is a great responsibility, not something to be abused.
btw I'm a dirty right-wing capitalist, having worked in financial services marketing for 20 years, not some wet behind the ears liberal 🙂
Tribunal. He CANNOT tale you to an employment tribuneral over his sacking, assuming it comes to that.
Take it from me, being sacked on the basis of someone else's assumption that you've done something wrong or simply and inadvertently breached their values will do enormous damage to that individual, their self-confidence, career progression and lifetime earnings... being a manager and the power and authority you're given is a great responsibility, not something to be abused.
+1
And sacking someone over a tin of sweets is about as pathetic as it gets.
Sweets lying about - fair game. Any property stolen from a locked locker - sacking is deserved.
I worked in a place once where there was a petty thief. I had a tape stolen out my locker. Other stuff including cash was stolen. Nothing of great value but theft is theft. Never found out who it was and it left a bad taste about an otherwise good place with only 16 or 20 people working there.