[Closed] Firing staff

2 drivers go out and do not know the bag of mini eggs is in the building even

They had them in their pockets.

I'm gonna go with guilty as charged but its clear from the segue of every question in the area of previous interventions that there have been none. People make mistakes and do stupid things you can choose the passive aggressive make the problem go away path if you choose or you can do what any self respecting manager would do and show this individual the error of their ways and give them the opportunity to atone for it. Up to you.

They had them in their pockets.

Those weren't mini eggs. It was just a little bit chilly out.

If he's crap at his job, fire him for that.

If he's good at his job then tell him full&frank you're pi55ed off and if ANYTHING like this happens again he's out. Put a warning on his file.

Those weren't mini eggs. It was just a little bit chilly out.

😆

that would be because I have never had to manage anybody before. last job there were 2 of us and we worked together and had mutual respect. I did the planning , he did the execution (s) of the plan, for 16 years.
new job is 4 months old and I have no experience in managing a group of lower grade manual workers.

His work area bin contains most of the celebrations wrappers

On second thoughts, maybe the prison service isn't for you.

I do have to take some responsibility for this

This would have earned the entire site a safety stand-down and a prompt firing of you, at my place.

Unless that is, protocol was poorly developed for reasons that were not your fault, you lacked the sufficient training to do this or your big bosses failed in their duty to make sure that these things had been done or prioritised. Our site head does a safety walk around every other week. Facilities should have a protocol that means that acids are very very carefully tracked by a chain of custody into the correct storage area, and as far as I know - no one is ever left by themselves when transporting large quantities of acid between areas. Everything is signed by one person and then that is verified by another present person.

Take some proper HR advice first. Its not so easy just to die someone even for something that seems pretty nailed on and you want to be sure of your grounds.

For example even a verbal warning has to be in writing and can only stay on the file for a certain length of time (pre agreed and in the written note of the verbal warning).

An employee has to be given advanced notice of any disciplinary and invited to bring along a representative. You can't simply invite them in the office Friday morning and tell them to do one.

Yes, if they've been with you less than two years they have very few rights but can try and swing a discrimination claim which removes any time bars for example and it can still get unnecessarily messy.

I underwrite employment law insurance and have seen what a mess seemingly nailed on situations have become because correct procedures have not been followed.

Take advice, do it right, avoid shit. ACAS are good to speak to. They're as happy to talk to an employer as an employee and guide them accordingly.

new job is 4 months old and I have no experience in managing a group of lower grade manual workers.

Are you actually serious?

new job is 4 months old and I have no experience in managing a group of lower grade manual workers.

It shows.

Ok sensible answer.

Confront him tell him what you believe has happened, also mention the acid incident. Set up some remedial training for the acid and review it at a later date. As for for the mini eggs and petty cash, tell him you have a suspicion it was him give him a chance to replace the cash and buy a good will gesture of chocs. Lay it down next time you'll take disciplinary action if he doesn't correct his ways.

Then speak to your manager and HR on some training for disciplinary procedures.

Listen to Dracs suggestion.

[quote=Drac said]give him a chance to replace the cash and buy a good will gesture of chocs.

Would Quality Street do as a Celebrations replacement ?

No

1 x 25l Jerry can of 5% sulphuric .
All delivery notes to be checked against consignment ,and signed off as checked.
All batch numbers to be recorded on rolling tally sheet with amount delivered and amount of previous stock remaining.

lad just initialed the delivery note and stacked the 25l can with the other 4 on the pallet.
Idiot # 2 opens can and adds a couple of Ltr to 3250L of product. its all foodstuff/ foodsafe and would probably be absolutley fine but I cant risk it

Listen to Dracs suggestion.

Nice to see we agree on something. 😆

Would Quality Street do as a Celebrations replacement ?

Milk Tray seems apt.

There are so many employee protection rights on this that it is risky for the employer to fire without being taking to a tribunal.

Singletrackmind, this is a really good website to help you through issues like this:

[url= http://acas.org.uk ]acas.org.uk[/url]

Don't list to Jambalaya there's more reasons than discrimination. Whistling Blowing for one which is kind of what this is.

It doesn't really matter what he has stolen - it's the fact he's gone into your drawer, found the key to a private locked locker, and taken something from it. I wouldn't be happy at all if he was my employee and if I had proof it was him he'd be gone.

Take some proper HR advice first. Its not so easy just to die someone even for something that seems pretty nailed on and you want to be sure of your grounds.

How old is he?

Fionap, he doesn't have any proof.

If you were in my team OP and you shoved an authorisation to recruit form under my nose with this story your card would be well and truly marked.

This is a minor behavioural issue that needs addressing through the proper channels but to cause the disruption to the business of recruiting another bod over some minieggs is bullshit.

its all foodstuff/ foodsafe and would probably be absolutley fine but I cant risk it

Adding sulphuric acid to something you're planning to sell for people to eat?

all i have to say is, you touch my lunch, i break your fingers, or nose.
8)

Are you 100% sure the four "low grade manual workers" aren't stitching you both up?
Maybe they aren't happy you're their new manager.
Other wise ,I'd listen to Drac.

You're not actually taking responsibility for him at all if you sack him for minor things which breach your personal values - that's more like victimising him than taking responsibility for it yourself.

Taking responsibility would be treating him like an adult and having a face to face chat with him about all the issues and giving him right to reply - and listening to it properly, without judgement and without prejudice. And I mean listen - say absolutely nothing whilst he talks...

Show him some leadership and you may find him an awesome employee. Sack him and you teach him that managers will use their power irresponsibly, which will become his long term problem he's likely to carry around for years and hold his career back.

I'm afraid it shows that you lack management experience but I'll give you this - you've thought enough about it to come on here and engage with those who've criticised you for your approach. That suggests you are actually thinking about the negative consequences for this lad of your actions - do more of that before you sack him please.

Oh, and have a word with your employer about giving you some management training. I've seen so many weak managers over the years wreck people's work lives because the manager was given line management responsibility without any training... so please make this your employer's responsibility to support you too.

Good luck... I'm sure this isn't pleasant

You honestly sound like a complete nightmare to have as a boss
I would do stuff to wind you up aswell .

You honestly sound like a complete nightmare to have as a boss
I would do stuff to wind you up aswell .

THIS!
You wouldn't last 5 mins in our place!

I would love to have you as my boss. SRS every day would be a gift.

If I were the chocolate boy Id be asking you to prove I've done anything? Can you? If you can't and he's as twisted as me you are going to be in a bit of bother. 😈

I'll add.

The first time the route I chose that ended up being a dismissal case had a huge effect on me too, it didn't go away over night dragged up now and then, even this year it was used as an example case in some training. It's horrible knowing what an effect it has on the individual, their family as well as how it shatters a working team. Some will take your side others will hate you for it, think long and hard before you do it.

It gets easier though.

Bencooper
Its a food grade food additive to reduce water ph from alkaline to neutral.
Probably 1/3 to 1/2 of all beer has it added in a very low % , you just dont know about it, till now.
The ph has dropped from 3.9 ( within target guidelines ) to 3.6, below target.
Coca-cola is even more acidic , coming in at aroun 3.2ph which is another reason why its bad for you

So he's in allsorts of trouble? Perhaps some kind of refresher course would do the trick.

SRS = Supplementary Restraint System?

Yeah but that was your fault for not training him. You were firing him for mini eggs, remember?

I know I'm being harsh but you ARE going to have to explain this to your manager.

you can't fire him based on speculation, pretty sure he'll have you for that.

And stop buying poncy overpriced Mellow Birds, you're not fooling anyone

SRS

I'm a manager too. 😉 😈

Blimey, I drank half a bottle of my dad's whiskey once when I was at school. He didn't sack me, he kept me on but gave me a bollocking and I had to buy another bottle of whiskey.

Is there anything else we should know about apart from the chocolates, acid and your inexperience at managing people?

Sad fact is that you can be fired for pretty much anything if you've accrued less than two years' continuous employment.

That doesn't mean that I agree with the OP's actions though. The problem could be solved with a very informal chat and an agreement for the employee to return the coffee, chocolate and the £19 float by the end of the day and provided that there's no repeat of the scallying then nothing else need be said.

If the employee is rubbish at their job, or insubordinate then there's justifiable grounds for sacking.

Actually, re-read page 2, didn't notice this:

that would be because I have never had to manage anybody before. last job there were 2 of us and we worked together and had mutual respect. I did the planning , he did the execution (s) of the plan, for 16 years.
new job is 4 months old and I have no experience in managing a group of lower grade manual workers.

and

idiot#2

You perhaps need to look at what you're doing wrong, you're not coming across well, in fact, it almost sounds like you're just desperate to fire someone because you can. You've mentioned here that you haven't trained him properly so this could all turn back round on you very quickly

4 months in

Are you under scrutiny for the acid incident and lashing out?

Not judging at all, sounds like you've moved into a situation your not 100% comfortable with. Maybe talk to your manager honestly, they're presumably a human being too.( though it must be said, some aren't)

so it would appear its ok for me to come to your office or prison ( irony alert ) steal your house keys from your desk drawer. Drive round to your house , use your keys to enter your house. The drink your coffee , make a sandwich from your fridge, drive back to your office, replace key and its all hunky dory.
I dont want to fire the lad . He can do good work. There are trust issues and Im sorry but going into my locker simply isnt on.
we dont have a Hr dept , and i dont have really have a manager either.

stabiliseer, Nope not at all I was on holiday when it happened .

You have bigger management problems than sweets disappearing. You clearly don't have control of the chemicals you use because either you have a system in place but haven't ensured it is followed, or you don't have a system in place at all. In my world, either would be a serious management failing. If you don't know how to set this up and operate it, then your boss is culpable too.

The advice to involve HR is good, and you need to ask for support and traning yourself.

so it would appear its ok for me to come to your office or prison ( irony alert ) steal your house keys from your desk drawer. Drive round to your house , use your keys to enter your house. The drink your coffee , make a sandwich from your fridge, drive back to your office, replace key and its all hunky dory.

That's not what happened at all now is it. You think, as there's no proof, he had some chocs and someone helped themselves to petty cash. You have no proof.

^ Genuinely, look at PJM1974's post. It's spot on and you'd do well to try that tact first.