[Closed] Families and weddings

Not sure if it's been said, but ISTM the issue is not only the short notice but doing it abroad with everybody having to travel out. It seems rather different to a UK wedding which is presumably what most other people's examples of kid free weddings are. I think somebody suggested that the short notice is explained by a realisation that expecting you to travel abroad with kids that age who aren't actually invited is being a bit of an arse.

It also seems a bit different to other examples when somebody very close who is directly involved in the wedding has a child that young who clearly can't just be abandoned for the whole day. If you weren't closely related and directly involved I'm sure it would have been a no brainer to decline the invitation rather than be placed in such an awkward position (I'm sorry, I agree with others that whatever your wife might say, you have pissed her off - the trick here is to whinge about your brother together so she's pissed off with him and forgets about being pissed off with you 😉 )

I dont think its weird not having kids there. What is odd, is the way you found out. I.e at the last minute and via an email.

OP, as all above, there are loads of reasons why children are not always welcome, especially when making numbers and costs work, but I have never seen this extended to immediate family.

If you have the chance, why not have a quick beer with your brother and tell him how you feel, he can reply in turn and then put it to bed. Life's too short.

[quote=Cougar ]Look at this from their point of view (and you should as it's their wedding and one of the few days in someone's life where they get to be completely selfish); they really really want you there but don't want screaming kids disrupting the middle of a ceremony. Totally understandable, and puts them in an awkward position. From recent experience of planning a wedding, they probably stressed and agonised about it for months over the no-win situation they were now in.

So the decision was to transfer the awkward no-win situation to him. I have a feeling there must have been some sort of compromise possible where nobody loses.

One other consideration is, unless they're very young, children take up a guest space and the couple will have to pay for that.
...
Bear in mind also, "+1, +kids" can be a big chunk of the guest list.

It appears that the kids' travel and accommodation is being paid for anyway in this case, and it's been mentioned a few times that it is possible to have exceptions for those who really need them which doesn't compromise the guest list. The no kids wedding I went to since I've had kids I wouldn't have been at all upset if a brother or sister had their tiny baby there because that was the only way it was going to work for them (as it was, despite our kids being plenty old enough to be left, we've still never had an overnight together away from them so I went down by myself, got drunk and slept on another mate's floor).

Best compromise I've seen was my cousins where they opened up the back bit of the church put some mats and toys down. Quiet ones stayed in the ceremony noisy ones (ours) got to go in the (cloisters?/rectory?/whatever its called) and have a play. Similar set up at the reception (village hall) main room and play room. No always possible granted but thought it was a nice touch. If i'd flown to another country to be told my kids weren't welcome I'd have the arsehole, big time.

Is this one of those arguments the OP's brother can't win because the OP will always have the fallback position of

"You don't have kids so you wouldn't understand"

Child free weddings are childless couples way of getting their own back on this mantra for one day. For one day they get to silently tell you how great it is not to have kids, get drunk responsibility free, and have conversations with family and friends that don't revolve around how someone's mini-me has made it past the stage of pooing itself every hour.

Kids are like a good fart the morning after a curry, your own surround you with warmth and happy memories, to everyone else they're noisy and stink.

I should add that although they got engaged almost two years ago, when we saw them a year ago and asked if they had any wedding plans yet, the bride to be was very noncommittal. We were finally told of the wedding date and location this April, when my wife was 6 months pregnant. And it was always presented to us that it would be a nice holiday for us and our small children (and I knew it wasn't worth trying to explain that a 2-3 month old baby isn't really compatible with a holiday mindset unless you have a nanny or team of helpful close relatives to share the workload).

I just asked my wife if she's angry with me about going and she assures me she's not because I was part of the wedding party, morning dress and all, and she thought it would look like we were making a point if I didn't show up. If we'd known about the no kids rule weeks or months earlier then I would have gone on my own, or we'd have brought the in-laws to help out.

to everyone else

Clearly not. As many have posted up there ^^^ (if you've read the thread of course), they've been more than happy to have kids at their weddings.

I think I might have gone to the wedding but started on the spirits before the meal. UNLEASH THE BEAST!!

Oh definitely...I'd have got utterly smashed...heckled the speeches...spilled red wine down my morning suit...told the bride's mother how she'd aged quite a bit since I'd last seen her...but that I bet she still had it going on (like the last time I'd seen her). 😀

Unleash the beast indeed.

Child free weddings are childless couples way of getting their own back on this mantra for one day. For one day they get to silently tell you how great it is not to have kids, get drunk responsibility free, and have conversations with family and friends that don't revolve around how someone's mini-me has made it past the stage of pooing itself every hour.

Kids are like a good fart the morning after a curry, your own surround you with warmth and happy memories, to everyone else they're noisy and stink

Clearly not. As many have posted up there ^^^ (if you've read the thread of course), they've been more than happy to have kids at their weddings.

Yep, but how often (in this thread or in the real world) do those with kids turn up and say "yes I see your point, my kids are unpredictable, noisy, disruptive and smell of poo"?

The point may have been exaggerated into stereotypes for effect.

The point may have been exaggerated into stereotypes [s]for effect[/s].

There, fixed it.

Btw, I can safely say, I've never been to a wedding disrupted by kids (even when I was younger and had little interest or regard for them). I'm guessing you obviously have, so I'll accept I've just been lucky. 😀

Christ people are taking wedding far to seriously with all the rules. Its meant to be a fun day. Ultimately we wanted all our friends there so if they have to bring their kids then I would rather they came than not . We just said that it would be great to see people without their kids so we could d have loads of fun. Some people couldn't get baby sitters so their kids came along. And guess what some of them acted like kids!! At least it meant it wasn't just another boring straight laced serious service

Weddings are often like new year, people put so much effort into them and over think things that they just turn out a bit crap. Just chill, relax and have fun.

Not sure how you can expect to have a wedding overseas and then tell people not to bring their kids. To me that is very odd.

Should also say we didn't have kids when we got married and didn't have any for 4rs afterwards and to be honest I never really liked kids before we had ours.

I would have gone to the wedding service and not the reception

Yep, but how often (in this thread or in the real world) do those with kids turn up and say "yes I see your point, my kids are unpredictable, noisy, disruptive and smell of poo"?

If you're going to ban family members because they might be a bit loud and inappropriate, then surely filtering by age isn't the best way to do it?

Perhaps have an interview stage before the wedding to vet the guests?

I just asked my wife if she's angry with me about going and she assures me she's not because I was part of the wedding party, morning dress and all, and she thought it would look like we were making a point if I didn't show up. If we'd known about the no kids rule weeks or months earlier then I would have gone on my own, or we'd have brought the in-laws to help out.

You still owe her a massive bunch of flowers. And a holiday 🙂

In response, don't think people with kids realise how much disruption and annoyance kids cause to people without them.

We had loads of kids come to our wedding, and they didn't annoy us in the slightest. We wanted all our family and friends to take part in our day.

It appears that the kids' travel and accommodation is being paid for anyway in this case, and it's been mentioned a few times that it is possible to have exceptions for those who really need them which doesn't compromise the guest list.

That's a fair point actually, it doesn't have to be black and white; could readily have been "no kids except close family". Though, depending on the reasoning that might not be a compromise they'd have been prepared to make.

I do wonder you know if it's mostly just short sighted. It may well simply not have crossed their mind that childcare wasn't an appropriate solution. Plus, you said he was really busy and she's planned everything, it doesn't sound like he's had a huge amount to do with any of it. It does seem like a ball was dropped, but I'm wondering if Hanlon's Razor applies here; that it was simply a mistake.

Again from recent experience, there's so much to sort out on the run-up to a wedding that to a degree you just have to be a little mercenary about it. We started out trying to do everything for everyone, but it's like herding cats and in the last few weeks we just had to go "look, everyone knows what the crack is now, if they can't be arsed to read the details we spent weeks preparing then they'll just have Adult for themselves because we simply haven't get the time or energy." Very, very easy for something like this to slip through the cracks, especially for a man who doesn't even have time for a stag do.

Would have had less disruption at our wedding if we hadn't invited the childless couples. A free bar and no responsibility left them

"unpredictable, noisy, disruptive and smelling of poo"

Mother in law too, tbh , but wouldn't dream of not inviting family 😉

It does seem like a ball was dropped, but I'm wondering if Hanlon's Razor applies here; that it was simply a mistake.

Exactly why you should have just turned up as a family and let them pick that ball up.

Christ people are taking wedding far to seriously with all the rules. Its meant to be a fun day.

As an aside, I couldn't agree more. I was never really all that bothered about having a wedding other than as a means to an end until I realised we could have a bit of fun with it.

As a random example; my vows included a promise never to give her up, let her down, or run around and desert her.

Having no kids is fine but stating just a few days before a wedding abroad is out of line.
We had no kids apart from our Nieces and Nephews and everyone one was happy with that as they some rare adult time. Other friends laid on childcare in an adjacent room which also worked well for their wedding.

"Oh yes, others are but not mine, s/he's an angel, no, s/he's just playing, not being disruptive at all, [b]yes, I'd love to talk but, err,[/b] s/he needs feeding/some attention/to stop crawling on the brides dress". Ahhhhhhhh.......

take the hint 😉

take the hint 😉

Kids are like a good fart the morning after a curry, your own surround you with warmth and happy memories, to everyone else they're noisy and stink

I generally like other people's kids, assuming they're not completely insane - and the vast majority aren't. And the idea of a family event like a wedding without the close family's kids is completely alien to me. I wouldn't expect the bride and groom's friends to bring kids (at least without warning), but the happy couple's nephews and nieces? Definitely.

I've only been invited to one wedding that I can think of where kids weren't invited. It was great, gave us the perfect excuse not go. I like the idea of somewhere for the kids to go and play, that's where I'd be. Rather that than listening to a load of overblown nonsense that's all forgotten 2 years later when they're getting divorced.

I personally wouldn't have gone.

Weddings - why do they bring out the most selfish a-hollish-ness in people ? And I don't just mean the couple.

Last wedding I went to was supposed to be child-free, some of the guests just outright disobeyed and brought the kids. What can you do ?

I loved family weddings when I was a kid, I got to see all my myriad cousins and wear a pretty dress.

You should have just pretended you didn't know and taken them anyway.

I had a bouncy castle at my wedding! We wouldn't have dreamed of having our wedding without all my family and friends kids. Wedding is just a big party after all.

I've also been to a few weddings that were 'no kids' and they have been great, cos we got a night out and a break to let our hair down.

Timing was really shit for the OP and the brother needs a talking to, but it sounds like your wife is more annoyed with your bro than you, which i think is fair. Take her out for a night out and a hotel when she's done breast feeding and all will be good.

I like the idea of somewhere for the kids to go and play, that's where I'd be.

Given that we're geeks, we know a number of people with various issues around things like chronic fatigue, social anxiety or sensory overload. So we hired the games room at the venue as a quieter place for people to go and recharge, or for if they needed to do whatever it is that people do with small children. There was a pool table, dartboards, table football, and people brought books, knitting, board games.

We didn't have a typical dry, solemn wedding; it was a lot of fun and filled with laughter and joy, largely because it was attended be a number of children in their 30s and 40s. (-:

We had loads of kids come to our wedding, and they didn't annoy us in the slightest. We wanted all our family and friends to take part in our day.

this. x10000

it depends what you want. our starting point was that we wanted all our families there, and venue/food had to follow from that. Hence a hog-roast in a local community centre. It was ace, cost us less than £5K, the kids had a whale of a time and so did we.

but my colleague is planning her wedding now. She wants everything just so - it has to be THIS venue (which isn't big enough for all the family kids) and THAT food (which is too expensive to feed lots of people), with a particular colour scheme etc etc. And the guest list will have to be worked around these requirements. Personally I think that's putting the cart before the horse but who am I to judge what makes other people happy...

As a random example; my vows included a promise never to give her up, let her down, or run around and desert her.

I'm hoping to nick that... 🙂 ta.

The wedding is not just about the bride and groom, and it isn't just their day. That's part of the narcissistic self-mythologising selfie culture of today. If it was, they would just be in a registry office with two witnesses.

It is about their relationship with their friends and relatives and society. This isn't just a dinner party after a hard week where you want to avoid the sprogs. It's a celebration of their future and their place as a couple in the guests lives.
But yes, they can be as selfish as they want, but should know the harm they've done and hurt they've caused

I'm hoping to nick that... ta.

It got a very big laugh, not least of all from my bride. Fortunately for me. (-: But then, I'd have been marrying the wrong person if it didn't.

The wedding is not just about the bride and groom, and it isn't just their day. That's part of the narcissistic self-mythologising selfie culture of today.

Well, yes and no. It's a day when two people can be as selfish as they choose. Whether they actually choose to is another matter.

It was important to us that people to have a great day, and from feedback we definitely achieved that. But ultimately it was still "our day" and had to make some difficult decisions and compromises along the way.

Ie, you can put yourselves first without being a dick about it.

I said earlier that I've had to learn not to judge people by how they organise their wedding day.

Immagonna backtrack a little and concede that it does open a tiny little window into their soul. 🙂 (Or just admit that I've failed in my efforts not to judge.)

Well, yes and no. It's a day when two people can be as selfish as they choose. Whether they actually choose to is another matter.

It's interesting that this is generally the prevailing view these days, though it hasn't been for long - at my parents and inlaws weddings in the 60s/70s they had almost no say in organising it. Selfishness would've been well out of the question.

Perhaps as the burden for organising (and paying for) weddings has shifted, with the increasing age of the participants and all, so has the idea of 'whose day it is'?

not sniping, just musing...

(edit)

personally i think The Wedding Industry is responsible for a lot of the crap around weddings. Now you aren't allowed to have a big family party, you have to Create Your Perfect Day and look like the pictures in the magazines and look good on Instagram and whatnot. It's pernicious. People are encouraged to buy into this huge amount of marketing guff and, IMO, forget what the point of it is. My cousin had a pianist and fire-eater at her wedding. FFS!

[quote=doris5000 ]My cousin had a pianist and fire-eater at her wedding. FFS!

I'm not keen on big weddings (though have never had one and probably never will, so who am I to judge?) but when else are you likely to get the excuse to have a fire eater?

I'm not keen on big weddings (though have never had one and probably never will, so who am I to judge?) but when else are you likely to get the excuse to have a fire eater?

ha! fair point!

Have been to plenty of "no children" weddings where ther's been children there that were the exception to the rule - close family, too young to stay with others, old enough to act mature....

Ours was a "no children" wedding in exactly this form and it worked out to be a great friends and family party! We did not state on the invite in a blanket way that it was "no children" though, as this would have been a contradiction. We just made the invites out to the parents and included/excluded kids names where appropriate. However plenty of consultation went on beforehand with those who's kids weren't going to be invited and therefore might struggle to attend. E.g. those with very young babies, where exceptions were made. Most were glad for a night away from the kids!

I think the rule should be that 'no children weddings' should belong to couples who are 'not allowed' children in future.... 😉

having musicians playing inbetween the ceremony and the meal makes for a nice atmosphere - it's bought me a couple of bikes and a new saxophone ! but it's true that a lot of it is rubbish, it's all the unimportant things like table decorations that (invariably) get brides stressed out

to say no kids at the last minute which effectively is being disincluded from a wedding is really rude, I'm not surprised the OPs wife is upset

[quote=matt_outandabout ]I think the rule should be that 'no children weddings' should belong to couples who are 'not allowed' children in future....

There does seem something a little strange about banning kids from a ceremony the original point of which was to form a basis for generating them.

The only people causing issues at weddings I have been to have certainly not been children.

I actually hate weddings, can't quite put my finger on it but the entire thought of putting pressure on friends and family to spend a fortune (stags, hens, etc) because of something I want to do doesn't sit well.

I can't help thinking a big white wedding that costs tens of thousands of pounds is just a big attention seeking cringe fest.

And as for my friends who have had the whole religious element included and gone with a church wedding, well it's laughable really, they are about as religious as Mr S fry.

too busy for a stag do, so I've not had much chance to chat about the details beforehand - and whenever the wedding subject came up he always said something like "she's organising it, I'm just paying for it.

Yep rubbish timing about the 'no kids' think - although I do understand when people don't want them at the wedding; as long as it's all mentioned well up front it enables parents to actually have some time together without having to worry about the kids, feeding them and keeping them occupied
however
a 10 week old baby doesn't take much more than a request to 'shifty them out of the church/whatever if they start screaming during the ceremony'

I think the rule should be that 'no children weddings' should belong to couples who are 'not allowed' children in future