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I don't normally start threads like this but I'm sitting in a villa in Southern Europe a couple of days after my brother's wedding. It's all been rather weird because 9 days before we flew out I got an email confirming accommodation arrangements and flight times so they could meet us, and also talking about what babysitting/childcare would be required as it's a "child free" wedding.
The thing is, we were never told anything about this until that email and we have two young children, one 2.5 years old and the other a small baby who is now 10 weeks old. I spoke to him that evening and explained that meant his sister-in-law (who he's known since he was 17 and gets on well with) couldn't come to the wedding as our 10 week old baby is too young to leave in anyone else's care. He said that if we changed our mind he'd sort out childcare but that was that. He works overseas and he told me and the other ushers he was too busy for a stag do, so I've not had much chance to chat about the details beforehand - and whenever the wedding subject came up he always said something like "she's organising it, I'm just paying for it."
He had mentioned some months ago about some friends of his bringing their parents along for the wedding/holiday to help with childcare but he never said about the 'no children on the wedding day' thing - if we'd known further in advance I know my mother-in-law would have been happy to come out and although my wife is exclusively breastfeeding that would have meant she could have escaped for a bit to come to some of the wedding day.
All the other guests were staying on the same site and bar the church bit everything was on the site (although about a mile from our villa), so my wife had to watch everyone getting ready for the transport with our daughter asking why she couldn't go to the party and then during the event I had people like the mother of the bride asking where my wife & children were.
Once we got further into the evening do it was ok from my (drunk) perspective but before then it felt really odd, especially things like the photos where we had family shots with the bride's mother, father, sisters, uncle, aunt and cousin next to her and then just me and my mum next to him (our dad is sadly dead) but not my wife, his nephew or niece nor his uncle or aunt or cousins (who were also at the wedding)!
And when I got back in the small hours, my wife who had been very stalwart beforehand was just really upset to be hearing about it all secondhand because she hadn't been there. The brunch that was arranged the next day just felt totally weird, I was a confused emotional hungover wreck, and people kept coming up to my wife commenting on not getting to chat at the wedding and her having to say she actually hadn't been there because of the no kids thing. Our mum is pretty upset about it too but neither of us wanted to rock the boat so close to the wedding day.
Everything has been paid for, it's not like we're out of pocket but it just feels really odd. Like I said, I don't normally start threads like this but I just can't get the whole weirdness of it out of my head. It is weird, isn't it?
What have they got against children?
Definitely a bit odd..
I think it's a bit odd, but people have different ideas about what weddings are all about. I think the atmosphere at most events is improved by the presence of children being children, and that includes funerals, but again, not everyone likes them.
I reckon I'd have said something like 'sorry dear brother, we won't be able to make it then', but that's not to suggest you should have.
Yes. Had someone in our immediate family dropped that kind of clanger with 9 days to go and I had a ten week old and a 2.5 year old to contend with i would have been back at the villa with the wife and kids (no criticism of you implied - a comment on my stubbornness and attitude) making a statement probably with some very choice language about my reasons. In fact I am that stubborn I might have taken the holiday and not interacted at all with them while over there.
You want a child free wedding fine but be entirely up front about it and don't expect people to travel with young children if the kids are barred from the main event. Rather than telling people after the travel is booked.
I'd not have gone along myself under those circumstances.
Firstly, yes, I think it's weird. When we got married, we didn't have any kids but plenty of our friends did. Our view was that if we wanted our friends there, then their kids were part of the package and they were welcome to bring them and have them there at all times - for me, I've always liked kids being around at weddings. It part of the fun.
Secondly, sorry, it wasn't your wedding. It was theirs. Although, not letting you know it was child free with plenty of notice was shite. We've been to plenty that are "child-free" (but not while we've had a child) and it's their prerogative.
Thirdly, and this is something I learned when going through the "wedding years" ie that few years or so when you seem to be not able to afford a holiday because of the amount of weddings you're attending. You really really have to try not to judge people by how they want to organise their wedding day. They can't please everyone and above all, have to kinda try and please themselves. I've seen otherwise normal level headed people seemingly behave like selfish arseholes because it's "their" day and then go back to being ok again (but always a little tainted 🙂 )
Lastly, yes, it is a bit weird. 🙂
The timing is a bit crap but ultimately their wedding, their rules.
A wedding without children sounds very dull.
I reckon they're shooting blanks...
Thanks guys. It's been really hard work getting out here (he was a bloody nightmare for the first eight weeks of his life - to quote a GP "the angriest baby I've ever seen" - and he's still intense though at least he smiles!) but I thought the holiday would be nice and obviously I was looking forward to the wedding (the little one would have been asleep in a sling but I think our elder one would have been so excited).
We've had the odd nice moment but mostly it's been like the tough early weeks with a v high needs baby but in weather which is too hot for him, too sunny for him and with little of our weaponry for making life more manageable - whilst watching everyone else having a lovely time on holiday as we take turns stopping him crying and trying to at least give our elder one a nice holiday.
We've both found it a bit grating that the bride has been putting a lot of effort into getting our sceptical toddler to play with her on the days children have been allowed to be present. If she hated kids it would make more sense but as it is it's just bloody confusing!
Serious question - why would you take kids to a wedding? They know not of the occasion and are generally disruptive
the little one would have been asleep in a sling but I think our elder one would have been so excited).
No it would have screamed bloody murder and the other run around like a headless chicken
I once took my 11 month old to a church service, never again
You want then at your own wedding? Go nuts
no kids (under 18s) rule at my wedding, two stepsons (16/17) and one of the bridesmaids (14, a goddaughter) excepted. I have a huge family and you have to draw the line somewhere and we would both rather the folk we wanted there, were there.
of course this was all set in stone 18months before the event.
^what you describe is a bit weird, sounds like your brother had the rules thrust upon him. i would have probably thrown a sicky in your situation.
You know your mrs hates you more than bridezilla at the moment for still going, getting pissed and leaving her in the hotel with the kids
Selfish prick 😆
given your last post chief, i woulda pulled a sicky before getting on the plane.
good luck, it'll get better.
I hate weddings.
100's of people turn up to meet a bride and groom and get ignored all day at a contrived event with shit food and cost their less wealthy pals a fortune. The most interesting sociable fun people at weddings..are the kids! I hang out with them.
The ones that get hitched by themselves and then throw a party or two down the pub much more fun.
Yes, that's very weird. I don't think we've ever had a normal wedding in our family, and seeing stuff like this go on I'm very glad of that.
I would have gone to the wedding service and not the reception. I would have also called my sibling names.
Awful. Just awful. Sounds like you were left in an impossible dilemma with no time to deal with it.
Yes there is the place for a quiet few-friends-at-the-beach thing, certainly if I get hitched again that's an option, but a family wedding without the kids, and effectively excluding his sister in law? Don't get that at all.
Serious question - why would you take kids to a wedding? They know not of the occasion and are generally disruptive
This.
A wedding without children sounds very dull.
I reckon they're shooting blanks...
No brats at ours & it was great fun. Kids at weddings are a bloody nuisance (IMO)
A bit more notice wouldv'e been good though.
(I hate kids me)
Serious question - why would you take kids to a wedding? They know not of the occasion and are generally disruptive
Exactly.
We had none at ours, but were up front about it from the point of invitation, and have been to many others that have been child free.
By comparison, the free for all weddings we have been to have generally been heavily disrupted by quite a few children.
You can see everyone rolling their eyes each time.
Sometimes, just sometimes, it's ok to do something without the children in tow.
Seems a bit strange but onto each there own ,we just invited all our friends to ours some had kids some didn't ,
actually under Scottish law your not considered legally married until a child has slid across the dance floor on their knees and been sick in the corner ...FACT
Alcopop - Member
Seems a bit strange but onto each there own ,we just invited all our friends to ours some had kids some didn't ,
actually under Scottish law your not considered legally married until a child has slid across the dance floor on their knees and been sick in the corner ...FACT
This^
Probably the bride is a complete narcissist and doesnt want anything to take attention away from her, like cute baby snaps.
Interesting reading all this. My sister did exactly the same thing, no children at the wedding or reception. We live abroad and at the time our first born was 10 months old . It meant that my wife and child couldn't travel and we missed a nice opportunity to all see each other , as I went alone. I am enjoying the theories as to why they banned them!
I understand though it's hard to say some children are allowed and some aren't, and ultimately it's their day so can do what they want. I just think that it's a day for family and close friends and kids are an important part of that
Our wedding was a child free one and we told folks up front, yes we were met with comments some of them supportive some not. BUT we both worked and saved hard for it, we paid for everything and it was not a cheap day so we had the day we wanted. I sympathise being told so late and thats not fair to be honest so I understend your wife being upset. Our evening bash was different with kids joining in which was great but by then it was a party.
Morale of our story is we were paying so we got what we wanted not what other people wanted us to have.
Is a great solutionI would have gone to the wedding service and not the reception
... but you were considerate so it worked. You could also have wanted everyone to turn up naked with a tattoo of their favourite big hitter on their arse but paying for it wouldn't have made it workMorale of our story is we were paying so we got what we wanted
chiefgrooveguru - Archie was the same - email me if you want to have a chat. No solutions, I'm afraid, but a sympathetic ear and shared experience available.
My brother's wedding was 'no children' - they wanted a sophisticated event, I think, and saw children as prejudicing that. It was in London so about an hour and half from venue to home, we had baby sitter trouble and ended up missing the speeches. Some other people had to choose between the ceremony and the do.
Now they have children I think they'd do things differently but I think some people don't realise how much effort it is to not take kids and, once you have them you also understand how much they bring to an event - for one thing it's an often rare opportunity for the extended family to see them 'grow up' by meeting them every few years at a wedding.
For my children (who are in there teens now) it seems they mostly meet their distant relatives at funerals, not weddings as my generation and our parents grow older.
We understood how difficult not having children there was for folks, but having grown up kids of our own who are now adults we are both past the having kids stage in our lives we wanted a kid free zone for the service and reception
Don't think ive been to a wedding where there were friends kids and quite frankly the parents enjoy having a rare night away. We had family children to ours, would not have minded other children, but to invite friends kids would have at the least doubled the numbers and not practical.
Op I reckon your brother was putting off telling you it's no kids because perhaps you wouldn't have travelled abroad if you'd known up front. If it was me I'd have not gone to the ceremony at all OR I'd have turned up with the kids to see what'd happen. He's your brother after all, siblings are one of the very few people you can tell to genuinely F off and be alright with again 30 mins later.
Fancy having no kids at a wedding! Who'd run & slide along the dance floor, who'd dance with grandma?
Have been to plenty of "no children" weddings where ther's been children there that were the exception to the rule - close family, too young to stay with others, old enough to act mature....
After them inviting you [b]ALL[/b] out to another country for the event, you'd have been perfectly entitled to [b]ALL[/b] turn up as a family. There's always exceptions to every rule.
It's obvious the bride's made a mistake in inviting a mother and 10 week old abroad to a "no kids" event. Most likely oversight, lack of understanding, coordination and communication or perhaps maybe bit of selfishness as well. You should have all gone, and given her the chance to rectify this.
Most likely, it would have all been cool as it's obvious a nursing mother couldn't leave her kid, so obvious it was the unwritten exception.
But if the bride then asks you to leave, you do so civilly as a family.
Feels weird 'cos you ,and your brother, did the wrong thing.
Make it up to you wife and kids.
I completely sympathise with the no kids rule, we did this at our wedding and despite a few grumbles it was definitely the right things to do. Ours was an adult event with adult company, adult entertainment and frankly come fairly adult debauchery, it was not a suitable environment for kids. In honesty, I think a good few people that did have kids enjoyed the excuse to let their hair down and leave the kids for the evening.
However, we were up front about this on the invite, were clear with our reasons and gave plenty of time for people to make plans or their excuses. Dropping it on you last minute it very, very poor form indeed. I suspect in your shoes I would have turned up with the kids in tow and waiting to be told to leave. Not the most respectful option but one that my stubborn self would have relished.
Edit,
I think some people don't realise how much effort it is to not take kids and, once you have them you also understand how much they bring to an event - for one thing it's an often rare opportunity for the extended family to see them 'grow up' by meeting them every few years at a wedding
In response, don't think people with kids realise how much disruption and annoyance kids cause to people without them. Last time I went for lunch with my brother he had his 3 year old daughter with him and so we barely spoke as he had to spend all his time entertaining her. This was a real shame as much as I love my niece, I wanted to see and talk to my brother.
It's a tricky one, especially when you're talking about breast fed babies and the like (although, i'll admit they don't bring a lot to the party themselves!)
We just had our first ever night away from our 6 month old thanks to a no kids wedding, we really enjoyed it but it did take a good few months of planning and bloody ages to express the milk needed to sustain him while we were away. If it had been sprung on us last minute there's no way we would have gone, if we'd wanted to or not!
We're just planning our wedding now though, I can't imagine not wanting my cousins and their kids there running around, laughing, getting their best clothes covered in mud and all that 😀
I think a one-to-one lunch with your brother is a totally different thing to a 'community' event like a wedding though?
Sitting and letting your kid scream through the speeches is not on but weddings are mostly about people milling about and chatting so a few kids running around really isn't that disruptive?
Have been to many weddings with and without kids
Every bride wants a perfect day all anyone can do is turn up and not ruin it. It's all history after the honeymoon
The more you dwell on stuff the more important it becomes.
I think a one-to-one lunch with your brother is a totally different thing to a 'community' event like a wedding though?
Sitting and letting your kid scream through the speeches is not on but weddings are mostly about people milling about and chatting so a few kids running around really isn't that disruptive?
Poor example on my part but but the sentiment remains. Sometimes I want to have normal conversations with my friends and for a lot of people a wedding is a place to do that, catch up with old friends, see people you've not seen for a while and talk rubbish. Some people seem incapable of doing this when their kids are around, that for me diminishes the experience and is a bit of a shame.
However, it's just different perspectives and different priorities, neither are right or wrong. What I do know is that whether you want kids there or not, you let people know early so they can make plans.
No kids at the wedding is fine in my book but that's not the issue here - its the timing. Sorry but your brother is a knob! You and your family sound like they are a bit in fear of him - I'd have given him both barrels - to him and his princess bride.
I'd have wished him an enjoyable wedding and had a nice weekend at home with the kids and missus instead. Travelling with those ages is a nightmare enough without being told that they aren't even welcome at the main event.
Certainly wouldn't be handing a very young baby over to random childcare abroad - I wouldn't be able to enjoy the event much in those circumstances anyhow.
It's personal, of course, but for me at least, a wedding is about an entire group of family and friends coming together to celebrate, not just a party for the grown-ups. If that means a bit of extra screaming and puking during the ceremony, that's part of the game.
We had kids out our wedding, wouldn't have had it any other way. Our nephews etc are part of the family.
Haha, family weddings. You can never please everyone.
TBH the only weird thing about this is the fact they didn't make it clear it was a child free wedding from the beginning. It is 100% their prerogative to exclude children as it is 100% your prerogative to decline the invitation. Surprised, as it was paid for by them you didn't just not bother going to the wedding and state the notice period meant you couldn't make alternative arrangements.
I had something a little similar recently. My brother got married (2nd time) in Italy. We were invivted and my two children (8 & 12) excluded. Fair enough I knew from the start. The sideball was that I was asked to bring his 9yr old son through with us from his first marriage, which I did. IMO that should have bought us some leeway but there ya go. I paid for us so this wasn't a freebie.
Come to the wedding I have never felt like more of a spare part. It was the girls wedding, fair enough. However being told by the wedding organiser that I couldn't sit in certain seats (2nd or 3rd row) as they were for close family was rather insulting considering the groom was my younger brother. We had a short break in Italy, took in my brothers wedding and had a good meal. No issues caused with family and we move on.
Either make a big deal of it, or don't. Either way you haven't really lost out on much
My 2p?
We had kids at our Wedding, I wouldn't have it any other way, they can be as noisy and disruptive as they want to be, they're children after all and they're great fun, but most importantly they're part of my family.
I haven't been invited to a 'child free' wedding yet, but if I am I'll politely decline the day in favour of the evening (when I'd prefer them to be at home in bed, not watching me drinking). I can understand it, some people really don't like kids, they think they're all so terribly rude and noisy and they'd rather sit in stony silence, enjoying the grandeur of the thing or whatever, but it's not me, I love noise and chaos and find most wedding boring.
As for the OP's experience? Genuinely, given the short-notice I wouldn't have gone, I'd explain that given how young Baby is that it would be unfair to leave my Wife in a hotel room all day waiting about and taken them out for the day, if that didn't suit Bridezilla's 'perfect day' I'd have stayed at home.
Oh and we took a 4yr old and 6wk old baby to a wedding in St Lucia. It was pure torture and if someone asked me to do it again I would rather set fire to £5,000 it cost me to go and stay at home.
I can understand it, some people really don't like kids, they think they're all so terribly rude and noisy and they'd rather sit in stony silence, enjoying the grandeur of the thing or whatever
Yeah because that's the [i]only[/i] alternative.
As has been said the short notice is a bit off but a lot of people need to put their egos in check when it comes to other peoples weddings. It's not about you, it's about the Bride and Groom.
Don't think ive been to a wedding where there were friends kids and quite frankly the parents enjoy having a rare night away. We had family children to ours, would not have minded other children, but to invite friends kids would have at the least doubled the numbers and not practical.
This is what we did. Our nieces and nephews (including a then 6 month year old) were there, but we did state that only immediate family children and babies on the breast were invited. A friends wedding where they did not think they had to confirm this, had friends bring their uninvited kids along, and had to be be catered for at the last minute.
I have been to many child free weddings and it is great having the night off from your own children, but immediate family children have always been there. Perfectly acceptable to tell friends that only they are invited, but I was not going to tell my sister or brother-in-law that their kids were not welcome.
So OP, yes it weird. Ultimately it is their day and their rules, but I do find it strange and that decision was not made 9 days prior to the wedding day so they had plenty of notice to let you know.
"No kids" is a fairly normal thing these days. We discussed it for our wedding right back at the start of our plans, and eventually decided that we wouldn't do it (not least of all because the chief bridesmaid has two young ones). In the end, for us, it was the right thing to do and we had four or five young but very well behaved kids in attendance. Of course, there's quality control going on here and that was instrumental in our decision; we knew that the people bringing children weren't the type of people to let their offspring run feral unchecked in the middle of a wedding ceremony.
One thing I don't think has been mentioned yet is, given the timings and how long it takes to plan a wedding, it's highly likely that you weren't even expecting back when the decision had been made. And as someone else said, your bro may well have been putting off telling you for fear of a negative reaction.
Look at this from their point of view (and you should as it's their wedding and one of the few days in someone's life where they get to be completely selfish); they really really want you there but don't want screaming kids disrupting the middle of a ceremony. Totally understandable, and puts them in an awkward position. From recent experience of planning a wedding, they probably stressed and agonised about it for months over the no-win situation they were now in. I completely agree that it's a shitty thing to do not to say anything until the last minute, they should've been up front about it (why wasn't it on the invite?), but I can completely sympathise with what must've been a difficult situation.
One other consideration is, unless they're very young, children take up a guest space and the couple will have to pay for that. I had a mate I'd have really liked to have invited to the ceremony / day do, but he's married with three kids. That's five guest places - a sixth of the entire day guest list - and due to their ages would've been thee adults and two halves we'd have had to pay for. Much as I wanted him there it just wasn't viable, but if we'd mandated 'no kids' we could have invited him.
Bear in mind also, "+1, +kids" can be a big chunk of the guest list. Our day event had a hard limit of 40 people. After the wedding party, that left us with under 30 invites between us. Splitting this into his & hers invites I'm down to 15; taking "and guest" into account for most invitations and I'm left with 7 or 8 people I can ask to my wedding with their partners. If I'd invited the aforementioned friend that would have been a third of my entire guest list just for one person. From what initially seems like a lot of people, adding kids into the mix is a suddenly a big hit.
So, yeah. Lousy that they weren't up front about it, but I can see why.
Time was when my daughter loved weddings and other large gatherings.
Now she refuses to attend if Dad dancing is likely to be involved....