MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Posted for your general amusement. I have been really flippin depressed about this but I think I've got a way forward so my mood has lifted a bit.
We have a sectional garage door to our integral garage, with an electric opener which was chosen for security. We have two keys. I misplaced one a couple of weeks ago, thinking it was in one of the bags I'd used to go to work, but not bothering to locate it. So we were using the one, which stayed in the house (not very secure).
Yesterday my daughter had three friends over, and things were flustered. So on my way out for a ride for some reason I cannot explain I had the remote on the bench in the garage - I pressed the button and left as the door was closing. So it shut the remote in the garage. Just one of those brain-fart moments. On return I initially blamed the kids for losing it, but then I realised what must've happened. I surmised that it was on the bench near the door cos that's where I usually put it. I started hatching plans to attempt to fish it off by reaching under the door seal, about 2cm of space, until my wife suggested we lift up the door step of the French door to the spare room which is above the garage and gain access through the garage ceiling. The step needs fixing anyway, so this seemed a great plan - and it worked! I could see the remote sat there on the bench clear as day! So I got a long stick with magnets on the end, picked it up, and carefully pulled it through the ceiling hole to the house floor hole. Now at this point I should've been more cautious and grabbed the thing with my fingers. This would have been a miraculous victory - after all, there is no way into this garage at all without the key, and a potential utter disaster would have been brilliantly averted. But I didn't, I tried to pull it through the floor hole, it got knocked off, and fell into the abyss.
We couldn't see it anywhere, so we tried reaching under the door where it should have dropped, but to no avail. My garage is an absolute tip, so we spent the next few hours rearranging its contents via the 3cm hole in the ceiling and the 2cm gap under the door. I taped a webcam to the end of a stick to look around on the floor, but we just cannot see it at all. So, a terrible defeat snatched from the jaws of a brilliant victory. This is where I started to get depressed. No shouting and ranting this time, just real despondency.
At this point we were completely stuck. No means of gaining entry whatsoever without simply cutting into the door. £700 worth of door. You apparently cannot get spare panels either, you need a whole new door.
Fortunately, I discovered this problem whilst coming back from a ride, so my shoes, helmet, Camelbak and bike are all in the house. But I was too miserable to want to ride it. However, I've formulated a way forward. I am going to try and get into the garage itself through the ceiling. This involves pulling up the nice solid oak flooring without doing too much damage to it, then cutting out a piece of the chipboard underneath and then the plasterboard ceiling. Replacing the plasterboard ceiling is easy enough; I think I can probably replace the cut-out bit of chipboard without too much trouble by making a frame for it to sit on between the joists and then having it sit on that. I'm not sure how damaged the oak flooring is going to be, but there's a rug over the top of it so that can be put out of mind until we move house in the future.
Anyone got any other ideas? I will certainly be buying a keypad for the door and two new remotes for keyrings, which is what I've been meaning to do for years...
Have you looked in one of the bags you used to go to work for the spare?
look for the other key?
Oh, and to make matters worse, I can't take a day off tomorrow to sort it out since I'm starting a new job.
Simon... 🙄 we turned the house upside-down looking for the damn spare key, I now think it's in the pocket of my red fleece which is guess where? In the garage.
Oh, and - I've been trying to sell my daughter's old bike for weeks, and had a serious buyer who was going to come today - but guess where the bike is? Also someone came round to pick up some old bottles. Guess where they were?
Looks like it's 'hook a fleece' time. 🙂
Why didn't you just try to press the button on the remote rather than yank it through the roof?
Why didn’t you just try to press the button on the remote rather than yank it through the roof?
I think we all know why 😉
How about sticking a hoover nozzle under the door into the area where the key fob should be?
Have you asked the manufacturer how to gain access? I bet they get this all the time and have a solution you haven’t considered
Locksmith, perhaps there's a universal remote type thing they have access to ? It's definitely worth a couple of phone calls.
Why didn’t you just try to press the button on the remote rather than yank it through the roof?
I thought of that, but that would have required whipping the stick up out of the way very quickly because it would have straight away jammed against the stick and re-closed. Maybe if someone had been outside waiting to jam something under the door as soon as it lifted this might have been ok as the anti-jam feature might have made it re open again.
Taxi25 - that is a cheapo remote, mine is a Hormann one that must be coded to the opener. Via a process that requires you to be inside the garage.
I will be calling the manufacturer or the dealer, in fact I already tried the dealer but of course it is Sunday and they are shut.
I would tie the magnets on the end of a cord and drop (not lower) them down the hole. Gravity being what it is, the remote must have fallen straight down, and whatever it bounced off, there's a chance the magnets will too, maybe not every time but it won't take long to try twenty times.
Is the motor near the top gap? Perhaps hotwire that?
Oh, and...
I would tie the magnets on the end of a cord and drop (not lower) them down the hole. Gravity being what it is, the remote must have fallen straight down, and whatever it bounced off, there’s a chance the magnets will too, maybe not every time but it won’t take long to try twenty times.
That would never work, cos the key bounced off the metal top of the door and the magnets would just stick. Plus, chaos theory.
The motor is not near the gap, it's in the middle of the garage. It would be possible to drill into the door and operate the button with a long stick, but that ruins the door.
I'll let you know how I get on tomorrow.. Fortunately the ladder I would need to get down into the garage is outside.
I can’t believe the manufacturer doesn’t have something in place to be able to fix this, and I certainly can’t believe you are the first person for this to happen to.
A quick google reveals these chaps, so someone can do it. Where are you based?
http://www.locallocksmithnottingham.co.uk/lost-key-for-hormann-garage-door/
I can’t believe the manufacturer doesn’t have something in place to be able to fix this,
Like keeping track of where keys are and keeping one in safe place?
I'm confused. We've lost one key and one remote, shouldn't there be another key around somewhere?
What are the walls between the house and garage made of?
Cut a bigger hole in the garage ceiling and climb down..
Does yours have the safety release (usually a short rope hanging from the track). I thought they were all required to. Can you get something on that using your webcam to guide you through your existing hole?
Call a locksmith. If you're lucky they'll not come out because it's too difficult. I'm sure the guy I had to call spent 10minutes making the job look hard. He was here for 11 minutes.
If you have a 2cm gap you are already home and dry. Call a locksmith, that should be a piece of piss to anyone familiar with the system.
Look up deviant ollam on YouTube, he has a few good videos outlining the sorts of techniques professionals (of either shade of hat) use to bypass "secure" locks. Even if you don't have the tools someone will, probably the folk that installed the door. There is no way they haven't come across this problem before.
Then, once you have your remote and keys, keep the keys safe and get that gap sorted. Angle bar, concrete, whatever. That's just an easy angle of attack.
Magnet will have wiped the code from the keyfob maybe?....
Unlucky ,sounds like an episode of One foot in the Grave.....
Obviously you are super sure there aren't any services in the void you are about to cut out of the floor? May cost more to than £700 to repair if there are.
Anyway seeing as its Monday , I'm sure this blast of 90's pop will cheer you up.
🙂
post a picture of your bike in front of the garage on ebay and gumtree, and sit back and wait for the local scallies to break in. Hey presto, insurance pays for repairs and cost of entry.
OP, your not related to me are you as that’s my sort of luck........😁
You could fill the garage with expanding foam until the door pops off?
If you can operate the motor directly by drilling a small hole in the door and using a long stick, surely it wouldn't be hard to sikaflex a small cover back over the door? Do it from the rear and some filler/new paint and it'd be hard to see?
Have you considered submitting the scenario as a episode of Mr Bean?
This stuff is top level schadenfreude, really gave me a warm feeling inside.
https://www.garagedoorsonline.co.uk/hormann-technical-details
Emergency Manual Release: A device to enable the operation of the standard emergency release of the electric operator from outside the door when there is no other means of access into the garage. There are two devices - one that connects to the handle if specified and another that connects via a key barrel in the top door panel when there is no handle option. We will ensure the correct parts are sent when ordered and they are the same price.
Got one of them?
If not, there's a bit of string that hangs down from the track, if you pull that (got a fishing rod?) it will release the mechanism from the motor track and you can lift the door up manually.
There are two devices – one that connects to the handle if specified and another that connects via a key barrel in the top door panel when there is no handle option.
There's no actual mechanical key - that's the attraction of the electric option. I'd have drilled the lock out by now except.. oh, the drill is in the garage..
Cut a bigger hole in the garage ceiling and climb down..
This is the current plan if the dealer can't help. Should be pretty easy.
There was a string hanging down from the track, but I cut it short as a security measure. Which was quite successful.
There was a string hanging down from the track, but I cut it short as a security measure. Which was quite successful.
Actual lols.
Sorry.
Not sure if this will work on your garage but...
Does the door not have a manual override? Ours does - a small cylinder key that you unlock/remove them use the (painfully slow) manual winder.
No manual override. Apparently it's an optional extra.
Anyway. I'm in, via the floor of the room above. Now to repair said hole.
Now to repair said hole.
And find the spare key. Then chain it to the inside of the house...
The spare wasn't in there, so no idea where that is. But it suggests that if it wasn't in the garage then it's somewhere else which further suggests I could have found it had I looked harder. But I looked pretty hard.
I've ordered two new keys to stay with us and also a keypad to stay in the house and never move, which should prevent it from getting lost or being left in the garage.
I was VERY insistent on us having the in-house keypad when I ordered our door for this very reason.
My dad attached his spare with a plug chain inside the house in the boiler cupboard (within range)
Might be an idea for one of your spares 👍
Great cautionary tale though. I’ve just ordered a spare key for my T4 after ten years with only one key, as a result of this story 🤔
The keypad requires a code so it can stay wall mounted in the hallway.
There was a string hanging down from the track, but I cut it short as a security measure. Which was quite successful.
#mutleys****
You need to buy a hamster. Spend time showing it a picture of the key so as to train the hamster to recognise it. This may take a number of years. You then need to teach the hamster to be able to track. I’m not a hamster specialist so can’t help you with this part. No doubt somebody on here will be able to help though.
The difficult part is then teaching the hamster to fly down, scoop up the key and fly back through the hole.
Good luck and you’re welcome
When you have calmed down heres an idea. Connect a wire to the track release mechanism that is up my the motor. It should have a sort of butterfly arrangment like a wishbone that disengages the chain from the motor.
Then run this wire along the top track and down to the handle / lock ( should be a mounting point ) or anywhere on the middle or bottom of the door.
If you ever have a powercut or a breaker pops and you cant get you could then drill a pilot hole in the door and pull the wire with a coathanger. The hole could be filled in at a later date and painted to blend in.
Take a picy with your phone so you can see where the realease wire runs, and print it out.
That way if you loose the remote , or there is apowercut you will still need a cordless drill ( thats in your garage or blag a neighbours )
This has cheered me right up. Moo haha!
My wife suggested a better idea - that we attach a pulley string to the door release and thread it through the ceiling into the spare room, so we can release it from inside the house.
Not going to do that though - if there's a power cut I'll just wait for the power to come back on. I have however avoided gluing the cut-out bit of floor back down, screwing it instead. This means that in a future extreme situation it should be much easier to repeat!
That means you cant go for a bike ride if there is a powercut = fail
No intnernetz, No telebox, no kettle. screw that , I am off on my bicyclette pour un bierre ou doux. Oh I cant because rob and my wife suggested a manual release mechanism *thats almost built in already* and I would rather dismantle my floor ftw .
I'm not having a release mechanism that requires me to drill a hole in the sodding door, that's ridiculous. I'd rather buy the battery backup device from Hormann.
Oh, you thought this was over? No, of course not!
Ordered new keys - the new keys didn't accept coding from the old keys. So I spent hours combing the internet to figure out how to code the new key to the opener directly. The manufacturer's instructions for the later model give you lots of instructions on how to do it, but for the old one they are absent. I cannot find the original instructions I got with the door either.
In my faffing about trying to get the code copied from the old key to the new one, I managed to overwrite the code from the new key to the old one. Which means I had no working keys, and the door was stuck open. And then my wife reminded me I need to go pick up the kids and stay for their coffee evening thing. With all my bikes on display to the world.
There's a company (ABI Garage Doors) with quite a few how-to's on their website, just not the one I needed. So I called them anyway, even though I'm not a customer - and they helped me out very generously. Great company! I can now close the door and open it, and I have two keys.
Very well written first post - amusing.
If it is an integral garage why is there not an internal door to the garage ?
Too late now but I would have taken that as the cue to arrange for an internal doorway to be cut. That was one of the first things I did when buying my place and it gets used loads.
"That was one of the first things I did when buying my place and it gets used loads."
is that not against current fire/building regs?
If it is an integral garage why is there not an internal door to the garage ?
Also building regs I'd guess.
I would have taken that as the cue to arrange for an internal doorway to be cut.
Quite expensive though. Money is tight.
You can pick up sledgehammers pretty cheap though. Just hire a couple of acrows to keep everything supported for now.
Probably cheaper than calling out the locksmith 🙂
I do a fair bit of DIY but I'm worried about cutting holes in walls. However I would like to get the hang of it cos I want to put two windows into the house.
Any builders in South Wales willing to do a day's paid work showing me how to do it?
Now worrying that Molgrips is aiming for 'fail of the year' on the back of my 'advice'. 🙂
Mobile phone endoscope on amazon for a tenner.
Brilliant.
You now have a handy escape hatch in case of a home invasion.
🙂
But you do have fire retardent material / fire break in between the garage and your room above don't you?
Cutting doorways / windows? Effing big angle grider / cut off saw thingy and simply cut it out. thats what I did. I did make sure tho nothing much was being supported by the wall first tho. =
is that not against current fire/building regs?
clearly not as I have a building regs certificate 🙂
Had a engineer survey the house and determine the support requirements for a lintel, and then it was cut.
Door has that heat expanding lining around it and a spring/chain thing that pulls the door closed, and loads of fire retarding mastic filling any gaps between the breeze blocks and the door frame.
certificate issued after inspection.
I did make sure tho nothing much was being supported by the wall first tho.
How? This would be on the ground floor of a three storey house, I'm worried about the rest of the wall.
I knew the construction of the building and were the joists were.
In your case it almost certainly will be supporting - so you knock a single brick or maybe two out above where you are cutting the door, stick a needle ( lump of timber) thru and support on acrow props - or you can get one sided supports if you want
However - remember what my profession is 😉 I don't carry insurance for building advice!