What has Perez done for Verstappen this year exactly? Max has walked it. He’s needed no help or if there was help it wasnt critical in the outcome of the WC.
Sure. But last year Perez was a critical factor. And now that Max has walked it this year, he’s still either too focused on his own now-unimportant point tally or too keen to bear a grudge that he won’t help his team secure the 1-2 in the championship that they’ve never previously achieved.
It’s an individual sport.
It’s both a team sport and an individual sport. The fact that there’s a championship for individuals and a championship for teams should be a fairly clear hint. Max’s behaviour arguably seems to suggest that he thinks it’s a team sport when he individually needs help, but an individual sport when the team needs help.
Any Verstappen fans want to justify that behaviour?
Lol! I'm just loving how Max is living rent-free in so many people's salty heads. 🤣
Seems like Vettel /Webber all over again.
Webber was a gobby number two driver. I remember the infamous 'Multi 21, Seb' incident. Webber whinging as usual, and Seb saying nothing, but probably thinking 'shut up whinging Mark, its unprofessional and you're embarrassing yourself'. Seb left his talking to the track, where he comprehensively beat Webber in every single full season they were both at RB. Drivers are there to race; it's really NOT a team sport. Hamilton has punted enough team-mates off the track ffs.
It's interesting also, how so many on here are whinging and moaning about Max, yet ignoring the REAL story of the weekend, which is George Russell claiming his first win. Superb. Cool calm and collected, until just after the finish line. He looks the real deal, for sure. I think next season could be a corker, if RB, Ferrari and Merc can all be properly competitive. A 3 way battle between Max, LeClerc and George would be superb. And maybe Lewis will have to accept being Number Two from now on.
LeClerc won't be in any championship battle - he's too fragile and makes too many mistakes.
And Ferrari will be third best team at best. To be nearly overtaken for 2nd in constructors in a season when their car was the best at the start by one that barely worked is embarrassing.
Looks like Red Bull -v- Merc next year so I do hope they'll cost in a lot of repair bills! 🙂
Interesting take from The Race
Seems to support the theory that this was Max paying back Checo for Monaco.
Max is an amazing driver, he's thoroughly deserved this years championship, but he is really difficult to like.
And maybe Lewis will have to accept being Number Two from now on.
yes, coz LH has only won one race in his career too hasn't he....oh, wait..
tomhoward
Full MemberSky explaining that it might be to do with Checo “binning it” in Monaco, after getting provisional pole, causing Max to not be able to set a final time.
Checo was in third when he binned it at monaco. Sainz and Leclerc were in first and second.
I don't think Checo was on for pole at any point during q3?
Seb left his talking to the track, where he comprehensively beat Webber in every single full season they were both at RB.
I think you're forgetting 2010, when Webber was ahead of Vettel heading into the final race. Ferrari saw Webber as the main threat to Alonso's shot at the title so they covered him instead of watching both Red Bulls. Vettel was very lucky to win that championship. Webber had a decent lead over him with several races to go, but Red Bull would not impose team orders.
And maybe Lewis will have to accept being Number Two from now on.
Also, George didn't get run into at the start of the race. There was nothing between George and Lewis at the end.
It’s both a team sport and an individual sport. The fact that there’s a championship for individuals and a championship for teams should be a fairly clear hint. Max’s behaviour arguably seems to suggest that he thinks it’s a team sport when he individually needs help, but an individual sport when the team needs help.
There are prizes for the teams but for the drivers, who do the driving it's and individual sport and they're usually pretty ****ing selfish and determined in their own rights
"What has Perez done for Verstappen this year exactly?"
Err... letting Verstappen pass when instructed by the team to do so on Sunday?
Would Verstappen have passed him anyhow? Probably.. but I'm just answering the question.
Would Verstappen have passed him anyhow?
Not if he was following team orders to work for a 1-2 in the drivers championship.
Assuming Merc can build a competitive car I hope they build it strong. With Max under pressure the Merc will need bumpers and extra crash protection
"Not if he was following team orders to work for a 1-2 in the drivers championship."
Exactly.
It was great to see the reaction to Hamilton from the fans in Brazil, as it was in Texas. It was a shame to see the fans boo him in Mexico but something tells me the Mexicans will find someone else to boo next year...
too keen to bear a grudge that he won’t help his team secure the 1-2 in the championship that they’ve never previously achieved.
this nails it for me, there’s a bigger picture here, and it would’ve been a no cost gesture from Max, but he didn’t take the opportunity? Seems just self inflicted damage
That’s my point: sticking two fingers up to Perez is one thing, but hindering the team that’s been kissing his arse for the last few years is just bizarre.
This actually reminds me of when Ricciardo beat Max to pole at Monaco when they were teammates and Max was really bitter about it. Sure, it will always be disappointing, but being angry because a competitor beat you is just childish. I don't remember exactly what happened with Perez's crash in qualifying that upset Max, but Perez never struck me as a dirty driver who would deliberately crash just to prevent others from having qualifying runs. Just childish of Max to still be bitter about it given that he's cruised to a dominant championship title.
I think you’re forgetting 2010, when Webber was ahead of Vettel heading into the final race. Ferrari saw Webber as the main threat to Alonso’s shot at the title so they covered him instead of watching both Red Bulls. Vettel was very lucky to win that championship. Webber had a decent lead over him with several races to go, but Red Bull would not impose team orders.
Blah. Webber lost. End of. 6-0 points for their full seasons together, 4-0 DWCs. Webber never finished the DWC higher than 3rd. Seb comprehensively destroyed Webber on each of the next 3 seasons. Sorry, but that's just the facts. In 2010, Webber had a 27 point lead after 13 races. Seb finished higher than him in the next 6 races, including 3 race wins. Hardly 'lucky'...
Blah. Webber lost. End of. Sorry, but that’s just the facts.
I like how you throw in some adverbs to make your initial argument, then when some facts appear that undermine those adverbs you choose which facts you want to be the important ones.
Also trying to think of any specific examples to back up “Hamilton has punted enough team-mates off the track”—I suspect there are some but can’t think of any. The three collisions I can think of are Canada 2011 (racing incident), Spain 2016 (which I considered to be mainly Rosberg’s fault) and Austria 2016 (which I’d call as Hamilton’s fault but wouldn’t describe as “punting someone off the road”).
Yeah; WHATEVER. 👐 🤣 🧂
Anyway; George Russell! What an achievement to win his first F1 race!
which I considered to be
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Well, it’s always going to be subjective to some extent, isn’t it? Your subjectivity seems now to be expressed solely through the medium of emojis, at which point I think we’re playing chess with a pigeon.
And getting beaten. 🤣
Of course it's subjective. But I have pointed out actual facts. You can't argue with facts. Another good one is; in 2013, Vettel scored more points than Webber had that season and the last, combined. In the same car. Astonishing.
Anyway; George Russell's amazing first GP win...
Yeah; WHATEVER.
Pretty typical thing to say when you've lost the argument you started but aren't willing to admit it.
I don’t think anyone’s disputing the facts. It’s just that you’re choosing to ignore some of the facts about 2010 so that you can say Vettel “comprehensively beat Webber in every single full season they were both at RB” and then pumping out chains of emojis whenever you disagree with something. And, in classic pigeon-chess style, then explicitly claiming that you’re winning.
Anyway, enough of this… you’ve made your point, and the point is that you are best ignored 😉
Anyway; George Russell! What an achievement to win his first F1 race!
It was a very good weekend for George - but to claim he's the new Messiah is a stretch.
...I don't think it's only George that needs tissues either - you'll be needing some soon! 🍆💦
Oh great our resident smartarse is back from being a smug git on other threads 🙄
It was a very good weekend for George – but to claim he’s the new Messiah is a stretch.
Erm, I don't think anyone's doing that. But he is very talented, has outpointed a 7 time WC in their first full season racing in the same team, and has won a GP on merit. I think he deserves some credit, and it would be a little more positive on this thread if people were doing that instead of whinging about Max.
…I don’t think it’s only George that needs tissues either – you’ll be needing some soon! 🍆💦
Look Bez; emojis! Pigeons! 🐦🐦
Sometimes feels pointless to look at head to heads between team mates because it’s never a level playing field when there is a clear number 1 driver like at Redbull. I think Perez is probably a far better driver than he gets credit for or appears on paper if they actually let him race and apply optimum strategy. It always feels like they dial max is car up to 11 and dial Perez down to a 9. I honestly don’t think all results are on talent alone.
Same is true for nearly every clear number 2 driver. The playing field is not level.
instead of whinging about Max.
Do you think Max did the right thing?
Will Buxton's take on Max:
Comparisons between Max’s refusal of team orders yesterday and Vettel with Multi21 aren’t, to my mind, the same. Seb was going for a win, early in a season for which he was aiming for a fourth consecutive title. Max was running for sixth, title sewn up.
If, and it’s big if, this relates to Monaco, the team should have dealt with this by now. It should have been discussed and resolved. Verstappen should be long past it. And given how the season played out his sole focus should be on the team game.
Red Bull has never had a 1-2 in the drivers championship. That’s now their stated aim. His refusal to help them in that desire yesterday showed petulance and a sad and selfish short sighted spitefulness. He’s not the complete racer yet. Nor the talisman they need. Much to learn.
Hard to argue with it
Do you think Max did the right thing?
I have no idea what informed Max's decision to ignore team orders, and neither does anyone else. It's all just speculation. I'm not really interested in that. If he's got his reasons, that's up to him.If he's made a mistake, that's up to him to admit it, it's not for others to demand any particular behaviour from anyone. But what is very clear, is that he is a long way ahead of Perez in terms of talent, this is obvious. He's an incredible driver, but also Human. All Humans are flawed. It's very interesting how Hamilton's various character 'traits' don't get picked on on this thread, but Max's do. I expect a degree of partizanship on a UK-based forum, but some of the nonsense on here is just angry bile. People need to have a word with themsleves.
And back to George Russell; he's been so good this season, fully deserved something from it. I look forward to some proper inter-team battles at Mercedes, it would add excitement and drama. Bottas provided very little real competition for Hamilton, and competition is what the sport is all about. Whilst I'm happy for Max for winning in such an utterly dominant manner this seasons, I think the sport needs a much closer battle next season, or it'll be at risk of getting boring again. Merc have really worked wonders to get back to the front; it's Ferrari that need to be very worried. But as I said; a 3 or even 4-way battle for the title next season, would be fantastic.
I have no idea what informed Max’s decision to ignore team orders, and neither does anyone else.
Other than what he said, of course.
I expect a degree of partizanship on a UK-based forum...
Irony.
Other than what he said, of course.
Which was based on what?
Irony.
How?
I have no idea what informed Max’s decision
At the end of the day, it's makes little difference, There's a chance of an historic 1-2 for the Red Bull and rather than support that, he made a bafflingly selfish decision that has probably embarrassed the team, and made a fool of his team-mate. I mean, they'll get over it, I'm sure, but if your critism of posters on the thread is that they are partisan towards Max, it doesn't take a genius to see why they do when he does stuff like that?
Configuration
That’s an awful lot of words to not answer a question. IDGAF how you get to an answer, in your opinion, did Max do the right thing?
I have no idea what informed Max’s decision to ignore team orders, and neither does anyone else. It’s all just speculation. I’m not really interested in that. If he’s got his reasons, that’s up to him.
It isn't up to him, it's up to who pays him. He's won the championship by a country mile, he wasn't going to win or even podium in this race. The obvious team strategy was to maximise Checo's points to try and get that 1-2 finish in the championship. I think the Ferrari situation was a bit more nuanced as it's difficult to ask someone to step aside when in a podium position.
in your opinion, did Max do the right thing?
As I said, I'm not interested in speculation. Only racing. I really couldn't give two ****s what he did/didn't or why. I'm not that emotionally invested in 'heroes and villains' like some are.
IDGAF
IDGAF that YDGAF. So...
George Russell. Anybody? No? Russell? No?
Dust. Anybody? No?
I’m not that emotionally invested in answering direct questions like some are.
🐦🤣
Can I ask you why you posted that attempt at a personal attack, Chew?
George Russell. Anybody? No? Russell? No?
You could argue Russell has had a nice easy apprenticeship in his first season with Mercedes.
Knowing at pre-season testing that you don't have the car to challenge for podiums must take pressure off to perform (for both drivers). No threat of being kicked out either like Bottas had every season.
Hmm. Russell had a tough year at Williams, so I think he's served his 'apprenticeship'. He's inexperienced, but he's shown some serious talent already. A good natural success to Hamilton then? Pressure must be on Lewis to outperform George next season, and I don't think George is one to take that lying down. Hence why I am hoping for a good inter-team battle next year. Age and experience vs youthful exuberance. Let's hope they can entertain us for a few seasons yet!
Max v Lewis v Russell will be fun to watch.
Max will have x2 Mercs he'll have to take out - and no wing-man to back him up now! 🤣
I think George and Lewis will have to watch each other tbh. That could get spicy. I hope it does!
No love for Ferrari at all? They've made some spectacular errors this year; if they could get it together, LeClerc could be in the mix too. Yes, he's made some errors of his own, but perhaps that's understandable given the lack of confidence he must have in his team. It would be nice to see Perez and Sainz improve, but sadly I doubt they have that extra 1% needed really.
I don’t think there’s any doubt that George is the real deal and ready to fight for a championship, and has always been an obvious successor to Hamilton. His two races this weekend were faultless, despite the challenges of having to make a measured pass on Max, hold Hamilton at bay for numerous laps, and control two rolling restarts on a track that makes it harder than most to retain the lead. I was surprised he didn’t get Driver of The Day.
Leclerc, meanwhile, has been underwhelming this season. Fast at the start but characteristically inconsistent and generally off the boil. Obviously it doesn’t help that Ferrari can’t string together a championship challenge for toffee, but now Sainz has got his head round the car I see him as the more likely contender next year (I had expected him to outperform Sainz this season, but he seemed to take forever to get to grips with the car).
I wonder what the odds are of Checo being dropped for next season and being replaced by Ricciardo? 🤔
Perez won't improve, he's at his limit and in all honesty very lucky that the Red Bull junior system is short of talent at the minute.
