Georges' performances this year (and previously when he regularly outdrove the Williams) show he is a driver with talent but i think LH will outperform him next year. Mercedes appear to have allowed GR to get on with his weekend as the new boy while LH seems to have been used as a sort of premium development driver in the early part of weekends which means he probably hasn't qualified as well as he might on many Saturdays, especially those in the early part of the season. Although GR held his own very well yesterday when it comes to racing another team I suspect LH will prove to have the sharper elbows.
MSP
Full MemberI don’t see how that was Verstappen’s fault at all.
Explanation:
The Stewards reviewed the video from several angles, including In Car Cameras,
CCTV and broadcast video.
The Stewards determined that Verstappen attempted to pass Hamilton on the outside
of turn 1 by braking very late. He did not complete the pass in Turn 1 and his excess
speed compromised his entry into turn 2, at which point he made contact with
Hamilton. While the Stewards recognize that Hamilton could possibly have given a
little more room at the apex of turn 2, the Stewards determined that Verstappen was
predominantly at fault.
Max was 20kph faster at the apex when they collided than on any other lap during the race.
I thought it was either a racing incident or hamilton's fault watching live, but i think the penalty is probably right having stepped through the replay.
Max was 20kph faster at the apex when they collided than on any other lap during the race
Ah - that's cut-and-dried, then.
I wonder what the odds are of Checo being dropped for next season and being replaced by Ricciardo?
I'd like to be proved wrong but I'd say we won't see much of Riccardo in an F1 car in the near future. Unless Perez does something daft or gives Verstappen a slap.
"Can I ask you why you posted that attempt at a personal attack, Chew?"
I'm guessing he mistook you for Fernando Alonso.
Max was 20kph faster at the apex when they collided than on any other lap during the race.
Wonder if Albon is available to do a reenactment to show that nobody could overtake there.
Max was 20kph faster at the apex when they collided than on any other lap during the race.
Ah, explains the penalty. I thought it looked like a racing incedent or 60-40 Hamilton's fault.
I, like many others was a bit gutted when Ferrari proved to be going backwards, hoping Mercedes pace isn't temporary so we can see some more drama. Hopefully with less toxicity (unlikely).
Wonder if Albon is available to do a reenactment
Surely Ocon already did the re-enactment in 2018? 😀
Those ruminating about how Hamilton is going to be able to cope with being a number 2 driver seem to forget he's been partnered by 3 world champions in the past and whilst he eclipsed Bottas, Bottas can't say he wasn't given a chance, if he'd been able to match his qualifying performance on race day then he'd have likely picked up a WC too.
The evidence seems to suggest that Hamilton can handle the pressure of a competitive team mate better than most, both in terms of performance and mentally. It's almost like he sees these things as a challenge.
I'm guessing a lot of people thought that with how things have gone for Hamilton at Mercedes this season, he'd either be throwing his toys out of the pram or retiring.
You could say that being a team player at the same time as being a ferocious competitor is one (or two?) of his 'character traits'.
EDIT:
And I'm not throwing shade at Max Verstappen either, (you can't throw shade on someone when they're under a cloud.)
jamesoz
I, like many others was a bit gutted when Ferrari proved to be going backwards, hoping Mercedes pace isn’t temporary so we can see some more drama. Hopefully with less toxicity (unlikely).
I think Mercedes have taken a genuine step forwards, but also Ferrari have struggled with their engine at the last two races. Hopefully just a blip on that front due to altitude/cooling. Three (or more!) teams at the pointy end would be fantastic.
What has Perez done for Verstappen this year exactly?”
Err… letting Verstappen pass when instructed by the team to do so on Sunday?
Would Verstappen have passed him anyhow? Probably.. but I’m just answering the question.
Whether he let max passed or not is slightly irrelevant as Max would have passed him anyway. He lost 4 seconds in a couple of laps. You cant defend from that type of pace difference. Point is Max would be WC this year with or without him. which is not the case with what perez was implying with his message about helping max win two titles.
"which is not the case with what perez was implying with his message about helping max win two title"s."
One and a half titles...
FIFY.
Oh yeah, forgot about Perez backing Lewis into Max at AD last year. That was great driving, that was. 🙂
Not quite the same as the FIA's assistance though 😉
One and a half titles
Two.
FTFY. As maths clearly isn't your strong point...
I wonder what the odds are of Checo being dropped for next season and being replaced by Ricciardo?
It'll be interesting. I think Riccardo likes the same sort of pointy front end that Max likes - Do you braking early; carry speed into the corner and let the rear balance the car and power on early for the exit, whereas the Maclaren couldn't be driven like that, it has a weak front that needed late braking and lots of steering input. In the MacLaren Ricciardo essentially extends every corner, and because the car doesn't like to be driven like he wants, he loses a ton of speed.
I doubt Perez will be in any danger, but if he replaces Perez for any races, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him a lot closer to Max on the road
because the car doesn’t like to be driven like he wants, he loses a ton of speed.
That just shows he's unable to adapt like other drivers can, a crucial strength in F1 really. Ricciardo is a strange one; on his day, a match for anyone, very fast indeed. But he's been humbled by Norris this season, and Norris isn't exactly lauded as the next superstar. Has his motivation gone? Perhaps being a test driver will be good for him, he can concentrate on that job without worrying about race pressure. He's definitely got the experience to give RB a lot, if he goes there.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see him a lot closer to Max on the road
You sure? I'm not. I think Ricciardo needs to find his mojo if he's to ever get back into F1 full time. Will he? He'll have to really go some as a test driver, against some decent young talent, to convince any team to take him on. Maybe his chance has come and gone...
That just shows he’s unable to adapt like other drivers can
Unlike Verstappen who only really shone once the car was changed to suit him over Perez.
And why has everyone forgotten the last time Max and Danny Ric were in the same team? I'm sure a pic will show how well that went.
He was roughly matching Max's pace when he was at red bull. Much like Webber, he got the shitty end of the stick a few times from the team in times when he could have been ahead. e.g. getting zero support after Baku '18 when max moved twice under braking and took them both out.
edit; yes that 👆 incident !
Unlike Verstappen who only really shone once the car was changed to suit him over Perez.
🤣 Gotta love the fiction on here. What utter rot.
Norris isn’t exactly lauded as the next superstar.
Er....I think you'll find he is, actually
configuration
🤣 Gotta love the fiction on here. What utter rot.
Was listening to a podcast earlier on; perhaps The Race (I've listened to a few today) and they were talking about just this thing - that at the start of the season, Perez & Verstappen were a lot closer, due to the car being more 'stable' and less over-steery. Apparently, Perez likes a more neutral feeling car, while Verstappen doesn't.
As the car has been developed over the season it has got more over-steery to suit Max's driving style & this has been to the detriment of Perez.
I reckon over the course of the season Verstappen would still be quicker, but they were closer at the start of the season.
Unlike Verstappen who only really shone once the car was changed to suit him over Perez.
I think it's fairer to say that the gap between Perez and Verstappen widened significantly after Canada when the car was developed in a way that more suited Verstappen, up until that point they were (when they finished) much closer.
Gotta love the fiction on here.
You would, being the source of a lot of it
You sure? I’m not.
No I'm not sure, I'm just speculating but I think Riccardo's a decent driver, he'll driving/testing in a car that suits his style better, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he finds his mojo again, whether he gets a chance to race (a longshot) is another matter
"Two.
FTFY. As maths clearly isn’t your strong point…"
Verstappen was frequently referred to as 'a deserving champion' last season, I'm sure he'd rather be referred to as simply 'the champion'.
That's why he barged into Lewis so unnecessarily yesterday, although he's won this season at a canter, in his head he is still racing those final few laps from last season.
Hamilton's ability to live rent free in others heads (Alonso, Vettel for a bit and now Verstappen) is one of the reasons he's so rich, (and so successful.)
If you don't believe me ask George Russell, yesterday he himself admitted that for a few races he had become obsessed with Lewis's performance and had to to a re-set and focus on his own abilities, realising that he could fall into the same trap that other challengers to Lewis have in the past (and presently for that matter.)
You would, being the source of a lot of it
Miaow! 🤣 🧂
I think it’s fairer to say that the gap between Perez and Verstappen widened significantly after Canada when the car was developed in a way that more suited Verstappen, up until that point they were (when they finished) much closer.
But Verstappen was already ahead by some margin. Obviously RB would have developed the car to suit their better driver, that's just common sense. Drivers are usually closer at the beginning of the season, when they're both in a new car. But Verstappen had already outpointed Perez by a margin of over 2:1 the previous season anyway. I was responding to the ridiculous notion that Verstappen 'only really shone once the car was changed to suit him over Perez'. Behave. He was WC ffs! He was already very shiny indeed!
No I’m not sure, I’m just speculating but I think Riccardo’s a decent driver, he’ll driving/testing in a car that suits his style better, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he finds his mojo again, whether he gets a chance to race (a longshot) is another matter
Would be good to see the kind of form he had early on at RB. But that seems to have evaporated.
Er….I think you’ll find he is, actually
Who by, Zak Brown? I really don't think that's a universal view. Solid, consistent driver though, no doubt. Future WC? Hmm.
That’s why he barged into Lewis so unnecessarily yesterday, although he’s won this season at a canter, in his head he is still racing those final few laps from last season.
I think he's some way over that. Like, two DWCs over it...
I think he’s some way over that. Like, two DWCs over it…
I don't think he gets over anything, wasn't this weekend's little spat about paying bach Perez? He's a petulant child.
I think the fact Lando passed on the chance to drive for Red Bull says a lot. Seems he’s happier having jolly japes at McLaren than pitching himself against the best driver in the best car.
He’s gone down a bit in my estimation since I found that out.
But Verstappen was already ahead by some margin.
Of course, on points, he's a much better driver; but until Canada it's much closer on the track, Perez is either routinely second, and is on the podium when Max DNF's (Australia) or takes the win when he can (Monaco) from then on the car is developed more towards Verstappen for obvious reasons, and Perez - who did have a car he could perform in at first, begins to slide backwards by comparison.
But isn't it more that the faster driver (in this case Max) is able to help development more, as it's just common sense to go in that direction? If you want to win WCs, then you're not going to make things more equal to the detriment of performance, are you? So the car ends up 'suiting' the faster driver more, because that's just logical.
Yep - best driver dictates the direction of development. Not a chance they’ll develop to suit Checo. Has always been this way, always will be.
Vettel was a master of the blown diffuser so engine maps were designed to suit his aggressive nature.
So the car ends up ‘suiting’ the faster driver more, because that’s just logical.
Yep, makes total sense, but Perez has helped with that as well, and he's entirely bought into the team ethos of Max being number one, and supported Max even when he doesn't want to, or to the detriment of his own race. After Brazil he was asked if it's important to him whether he feels he still has an equal chance in the team, and he said, "Yeah definitely, otherwise it makes no sense"
ie, if it's not equal [chance], then why would I help?
So, with one radio broadcast, Max has just made a committed team player doubt that he's made the right decisions, and he may think twice next time if he's in a position to offer help. (Without Max's help in Abu Dhabi last year, this may have been Max's First championship after all.) Max might think the matter's closed, I don't think anyone else (Perez included now) thinks that's the case.
Max is clearly very fast, but Hamilton lives in his head rent free, (witness how he changes his driving style around him) and now he's potentially gained another rival on track who was before; a committed team player.
That's not so smart.
Well, that’s nothing more than speculation and your opinion. I’m sure Max and Perez will have it sorted by the next race. Then you’ll all have to find something else to whinge about. 🤣
Then you’ll all have to find something else to whinge about.
Are you 12? I'm happy to natter about F1, but tone it down eh?
It's a shame...this F1 thread used to be a safe haven from some of the unpleasantness that creeps into many other long-running threads on STW. Of course, there were disagreements but not really any bitchiness, just robust polite discussion between F1 fans.
Sadly, one person has now ruined it.
edit.
deleted post, but i have a question
the commentator on sky, does it annoy anyone else when he describes every overtake or racing or race or season as a battle?
Of course, there were disagreements but not really any bitchiness, just robust polite discussion between F1 fans.
Sadly that's the way of any open f1 comments section these days. It got worse after AD but there was already a nasty turn to the language used by certain "fans" from different factions. F1 fans always had their heroes and villains but the current level of extreme tribalism, bile and vitriol (again from several directions) is wearing me down.
I'd manged to avoid news of the race until I watched it this evening but had seen this thread being active so knew that something was up. Shame that the race for the win was affected by the first clash, also that Leclerc got tangled up with norris. Last lap? Well that's for Horner to deal with and for us to observe the consequences - if there are any.
Oh and great result for George, alonso showing he can still use what he's got (if it keeps working) and shame for kmag to be on the receiving end of the honey badger.
the commentator on sky, does it annoy anyone else when he describes every overtake or racing or race or season as a battle?
Yes, "they're going wheel to wheel"
No they're not driver b drives past driver a due to the tow, DRS and probably better grip out of the last corner due to a tyre offset.
Trying to create drama, which is understandable. I certainly couldn't do that job.
alonso showing he can still use what he’s got (if it keeps working…
…and he remembers to steer before driving into the back of his teammate) 🙂
I did chuckle at his ranting after that. Silly chap.
Sadly, one person has now ruined it.
TBH the previous thread went downhill too.
True
Perez deliberately binning it in Monaco qualifying just doesn't make much sense to me. Seems completely out of character for a driver who's always appeared to play fair.
However, after Checo won the race I seem to remember Jos being very upset that RB hadn't done more to get Max into the lead either through pit stop strategy or backing Sainz up more to allow an overtake. Don't remember the race well enough to know if either approach was viable, but that seems a more obvious (although still unreasonable) reason to hold a grudge to me.
Anyhow, with Vettel retiring, what are the odds on him taking a seat at Top Gear? Replacing either Freddie or Paddy (or preferably both).
What a sad little place this forum is becoming.
