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It sort of sums up F1.... great cars, talented drivers, great specacle (sometimes)....
but sort of pretty rotten at the centre.
Absolute farce!
I paid €90 to get in to Spa in 2016 & we were thinking of going again next year but today has guaranteed we'll never go there again.
Anyone who paid to get into Spa today should be offered free entry for next year IMO. That said I understand why it was cancelled, just glad I dont have Sky Sports and wasted half my sunday watching it.
Agree with refunds, but that needs to come out of the FIA's pocket.
So who got the bonus point for fastest lap?
I feel sorry for anyone at the race, fourteen kilometres behind a safety car is not a Grand Prix. Should've been run tomorrow.
So who got the bonus point for fastest lap?
No one.
Bizarrely Mazzapin has the FL, which will forever be recorded on his career stats, but he didn't get a top ten finish so no point for him.
Should’ve been run tomorrow.
A lot of the marshalls wouldn’t have been able to make tomorrow at short notice, they’d be at their day jobs (it’s not a bank hol in Belgium tomorrow).
Bizarrely Mazzapin has the FL, which will forever be recorded on his career stats
LMAO. I still think the Indy debacle back in 2005(?) was worse because it was pretty much deliberate, but this is the second most FU thing I've seen. Just total amateur hour.
With hindsight, I think they should have just run three laps behind the safety car at the start (or just a few laps under a yellow flag, as Gary Anderson says) then stopped the race and announced that they would just award half points for the starting order if they couldn't restart the race. That way, it would have been clear all along what was going to happen instead of pretending they were going to have a race.
I know a lot of people are saying they shouldn't have awarded points because there was no race, but I think awarding half-points for starting order when it is impossible to race is reasonable. Some drivers nailed it (Russell and Verstappen, obviously), others didn't (Norris and Perez). The ones who nailed it deserve something to show for that effort. Just be transparent about what's really happening instead of pretending there was a race.
Hamilton says "There was no moment today when we would have been able to race" [but] "Money talks, it was literally the two laps to start the race. The sport made a bad choice today"
Writing on Instagram, he said: "We should have called it quits, not risked drivers and most importantly refunded fans who are the heart of our sport."
This reminds most of the Coronovirus races farce held last year. I can feel the dead hand of Sky on all of this. Remember when he said "Cash is King"
Remember when he said “Cash is King”
I genuinely have a lot of respect for Hamilton, but he has made hundreds of millions out of the sport so it's a bit hypocritical for him to raise this. Motor racing runs on money, which comes from broadcasting rights, hosting fees from promoters, and sponsors. Six of the 10 teams have had financial problems in the last decade or so: Alpine, Alfa Romeo, Williams, and Aston Martin wouldn't have survived if they hadn't found investors willing to pump a lot of money in; Haas is still struggling; McLaren had to restructure to survive. Apart from Alpine, those teams only have a viable future if there is a cost cap and enough prize money to supplement their sponsorship deals that they can be competitive. Yes, the fans should get refunds, but running three laps behind the pace car to meet a checkbox that the event took place is something that people need to just accept if it was necessary to keep the money flowing that the smaller teams depend on.
In the longer term, the FIA need to just have a clear set of rules about what happens if it's too wet to drive. It was just laughable that nobody seemed to know what to do.
I thought they should have had a 1 lap running race. The fans would have seen the drivers getting wet, if not really competing.
I thought they should have had a 1 lap running race.
Just line up a bunch of old British cars, one for each team. Drive them through a puddle, which will make the electrical systems stop working. Then have the teams try to push-start them in the rain. Whoever completes one lap first wins. If they actually manage to get the engine to start, they get a bonus point. Will make the sport relevant to anyone who's ever owned an old British car.
thols2
Free Member
Just line up a bunch of old British cars, one for each team. Drive them through a puddle, which will make the electrical systems stop working. Then have the teams try to push-start them in the rain. Whoever completes one lap first wins. If they actually manage to get the engine to start, they get a bonus point. Will make the sport relevant to anyone who’s ever owned an old British car.
Special dispensation allowed for Ferrari, Alpha and Torro Rosso to bring something Italian
It's a shame to say as an F1 fan but I put F1 in the same basket with Boxing (Maybe Boxing not so bad), how can it be called a race after following the safety car for 3 laps. I am aware they have some unusual rules but a race where you can't pass another vehicle surely that's not a race.
I had to check the dictionary "a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is the fastest in covering a set course"
It's little different from Monaco, qualifying IS the race, so it feels right that Saturdays performance should be rewarded in some way.
It’s little different from Monaco, qualifying IS the race, so it feels right that Saturdays performance should be rewarded in some way.
Yep, Monaco's the worst, but it's not the only circuit where passing is so difficult that it basically just comes down to qualifying and pit-stop strategy. Remember when Ricciardo won Monaco with his hybrid system not working so he was 250 HP down, plus a gearbox malfunction, but it was still impossible to pass.
“a competition between runners, horses, vehicles, etc. to see which is the fastest in covering a set course”
That's a good definition of a Time Trial. Racing is a bit more complex
Special dispensation allowed for Ferrari, Alpha and Torro Rosso to bring something Italian
In that rain, you'd have carried the Alfa home as a pile of iron oxide.
Bernt Maylander for driver of the day😁
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.essentiallysports.com/f1-news-bernd-maylander-reacts-to-f1-fans-demanding-belgian-gp-driver-of-the-day-for-the-safety-car/amp/
Bernt Maylander for driver of the day
I was seriously curious if he had the set the fastest lap.
I really hope the points from this farce don’t end up deciding the championship. Only the fia l layers would call that a race
I really hope the points from this farce don’t end up deciding the championship.
Effectively points for qualifying. Same as the sprint race... (which I dont like) And poor Checo has lost out on both occasions
I wouldn't worry about this one race making the difference when you look at the picture so far:
- Verstappen tyre debacle
- Verstappen-Hamilton Silverstone debacle (including engine death)
- Bottas-half the field (inc Verstappen) debacle
- Spa debacle
and i'm sure there is more to come
Yep, Verstappen gained 5 points over Hamilton. If he wins the title by that margin, it would be hard to say he didn't deserve it given the tyre failure and the Bottas crash which were completely out of Verstappen's control.
Also forgot Hamilton’s brake debacle in Baku
Yep, Verstappen gained 5 points over Hamilton. If he wins the title by that margin, it would be hard to say he didn’t deserve it given the tyre failure and the Bottas crash which were completely out of Verstappen’s control.
But previous incidents - crashes, tyres, reliability are all part of F1. No one should have had points for yesterdays cancelled race. There was no race.
Yeah, but F1 has always been like this. This is just one more race that'll end up in "Top Ten GPs spoiled by the weather" or some such nonsense on YouTube.
At the very least, they tried to have a race, and the weather decided that wasn't going to happen. No one was killed or injured and they didn't end up with a pile of millions of dollars worth of scrap at the out run of Eau Rouge.
They didn't try to have a race - they did the bare minimum to lodge enough laps for points to be given and contracts to be honoured.
They should just add it to the rules that, in the event of the race being cancelled, half points will be awarded based on qualifying.
They didn’t try to have a race
If that was the case, we wouldn't have had the constant delays based on weather reports that were saying things like "it'll rain for another 30 mins that we'll have a dry spell" I err towards the idea that the stewards did their best to stage a race. The rain had other plans. No one died trying to provide entertainment. There's another race this weekend.
I err towards the idea that the stewards did their best to stage a race.
I'm with you on that - even the parade around behind the safety car was an attempt to see if 20 F1 cars would clear enough water to race, but after a few laps it was apparent that the rain was too heavy. Masi did all he could to deliver something.
The farce is then that the rules say points are awarded for the event (I won't call it a race). Williams are probably the only winners as George's points could mean LOTS more money for them based on WDC positions.
I think the only other thing they could have tried was circulating under Virtual Safety Car for a few laps to see if that cleared the water, but the point that that might have been useful was earlier in the afternoon when the weather wasn't quite as bad.
circulating under Virtual Safety Car for a few laps to see if that cleared the water
This. If nothing clears water better than 20 f1 cars circulating at speed why not send them out a set distance apart running to a set VSC delta. This way the drivers get a feel for the track at higher speeds than behind the safety car and a decent amount of water is continuously being dispersed to see if racing can commence. If anyone is daft enough and exceeds the delta they get pulled in to the pits and put to the rear.
This process could be started in anticipation of a weather window so the cars are ready to go when it appears rather than needing 15 minutes to gather the drivers and get the cars started by which point the weather window could have been and gone.
Clutching at straws but anything would have been better than 2 laps behind the safety car.
The VSC thing is what Gary Anderson is suggesting too...
https://the-race.com/formula-1/five-rules-f1-should-consider-changing/
I can forgive the first time they tried to start the race, they needed to do that. But the second 'start' when it was raining even heavier was because they were running out of time and just to log that a race had happened.
Clutching at straws but anything would have been better than 2 laps behind the safety car.
I think you'll struggle to find anyone from Sky to the FIA to the teams to the fans who thinks that was a solution to the issue on Sunday. The regs. just aren't set out for "It rains forever, and you can't start" so they did the best with what they had. Had they done anything outside the current regulations, we'd be no doubt listening to Messrs. Horner and Mateschitz telling anyone who'd listen how the stewards had chosen to do something that was aimed at inflicting as much damage as possible at Red Bull specifically and that everyone is horrid and mean to them all the time.
I'd rather have a 2 lap parade than that any day of the week.
But previous incidents – crashes, tyres, reliability are all part of F1. No one should have had points for yesterdays cancelled race. There was no race.
this. There was no race yesterday. They was a contact compliance parade
Aston being penalised for change of wing but redbull surely did at least that to get Perez back in the race.
I think the Aston one was a different wing, the RB on was the same as the previous one
Looks like the driver market is falling into place next year - and RaceFans usually have good sources of info...
the-muffin-man
Full MemberLooks like the driver market is falling into place next year – and RaceFans usually have good sources of info…
i think joe saward was saying something along those lines too. Albon would make sense for Williams- he has experience driving the current cars/engines/tyres, fairly quick, presumably cheap in terms of wages, potentially brings Thai sponsors.
I'm really looking forward to Zandvoort now. THe banking looks incredible from the pics I've seen banded about. Not sure how many overtakes there will be though.
I’m really looking forward to Zandvoort now.
The atmosphere should be fun - if max does well it'll be a massive party, if Lewis does well you'll be able to hear the baying from here 🙂
So if that's correct then we have:
Mercedes Hamilton Russell
Red Bull Verstappen Perez
McLaren Norris Riciardo
Ferrari LeClerc Sainz
Alpine Alonso Ocon
Aston Vettel Stroll
Alpha Tauri Gasly TBC
Williams Albon TBC
Alfa Romeo Bottas De Vryes
Haas Schumacher Mazzapin
.
That's not many TBCs for Illot, Lattifi, Tsunoda, Hulkenburg, Vandoorn et al to share.
.
Williams have said they no longer need pay drivers but Latifi does appear to have upped his game the last couple of races. Will they keep him?
did I read somewhere that Williams weren't ruling out Hulkenburg?
I’m really looking forward to Zandvoort now. THe banking looks incredible from the pics I’ve seen banded about. Not sure how many overtakes there will be though.
From a look at the layout it looks like it will have the same issues as Barcelona. The two straights have medium speed corners before them, meaning it will be difficult for car to follow close enough to get an overtake done into the braking zone, although its even worse at Zandvoort because the end of the main straight has a banked corner which means less of braking zone
Will they keep him?
I hope so, I don't think he's a bad driver
I’m really looking forward to Zandvoort now
Any circuit that has a corner called Tarzan ought to be in the calendar by right of that alone really. Gravel run-offs and beach sand all over the place, what's not to like?
Yes, Joe Saward says that Red Bull were interested in signing Russell, so announcing that they're keeping Perez means that Russell is off to Merc. Apparently, Alfa Romeo is more attractive to Bottas than Williams, so Raikkonen is retiring and Williams want Albon to replace Russell. It does seem strange to me that Alfa are ditching two drivers with Ferrari connections for two with Merc connections.
It does seem strange to me that Alfa are ditching two drivers with Ferrari connections for two with Merc connections.
When does Sauber's sponsorship deal with Alfa finish?
I think they just signed a one-year extension.
It does seem strange to me that Alfa are ditching two drivers with Ferrari connections for two with Merc connections.
Yeah, I thought that too. Am very pleased to see Albon back, he deserved better than to be turfed out of the second Red Bull at the end of last year. I'm not Lattifi's biggest fan, but he did a solid job over the last two Grand Prix weekends, so it's hard to envisage Williams not re-signing him.
Quite surprised to see Bottas take an Alfa seat. Can’t really make much sense of it, unless the GPDA have some sort of back-room agreement with Sauber whereby one of their seats is a kind of retirement home for past-their-best drivers to eke out a few years of profitable trundling round at the back of the grid.
Would be good to see Albion back on track. Suspect Latifi will retain the other seat for a year, to be replaced once Williams move up the grid.
Raikkonen has announced his retirement.
I know I'm in a minority but I'm glad to see the back of him...that "I don't care" act was wearing thin
No, I'm with you on that Twodogs, that attitude never came across well.
Hakkinen never said much either but he never appeared rude like Raikkonen does.
And I know it's a Finnish stereotype, but Kimilainen shows they aren't all like that, she was jubilant and very chatty in the interviews after Spa and Bottas is usually polite and has something to say
Actually, talking of W-Series, why is Chadwick doing that again? Now she's proved she's pretty quick shouldn't she be doing F2/IndyLights/DTM/wherever else F3 champions move up to? Seems odd to have a series dedicated to showcasing female drivers if the good ones don't then get the chance to prove themselves against the good male drivers and maybe end up in F1/Indy/WEC/etc.
See ya Kimi, I've never got the adoration that some have for him. As for Finns, having worked for Nokia I can assure you that he is far from an outlier! IIRC there's a bit of an East/West split, one side are more taciturn the other a lot more chatty, both drink like fish!
Nope, another one that is fairly ambivalent to Kimi's retirement......the part of his career where he was fast and entertaining is well over a decade ago now! Save for a couple of stellar opening laps he hasn't added much value for years imo.
It'll be interesting to see how De Vries gets on, he always seems to take a while to get up to speed in any given series. I'm assuming that he won't be afforded that luxury in F1. Shame for Giovinazzi...I've always liked him. Feels like he's probably fulfilled his potential though. I really don't get the Albon to William's signing. Surely they'd have been better off with Bottas and vice versa?
I know I’m in a minority
Maybe I'm not then! 😂
I really don’t get the Albon to William’s signing
Me neither...but people with real knowledge do seem to really rate Albon....maybe not quite the potential of Russell but right up there. Maybe he'll do better in a more nurturing environment than the odious Red Bull?
And possible that Bottas has either past his best or his best was never quite up there
Legendary Kimi:
What a tosser
I really don’t get the Albon to William’s signing
The guy he replaced, Gasly, now looks like a very solid driver once he got out of that pressure-cooker Red Bull seat. Albon was quite inexperienced when he was dropped into a team dominated by an exceptionally fast teammate. His race performances were often promising, but the car was difficult to drive and he struggled in qualifying. Pretty good chance he'll turn out like Gasly and be a solid mid-field driver who consistently collects points.
I’m sad to see kimi go, with a dry soh myself I like his aloof and direct persona either fake or otherwise. I’m sure it probably helps to be inside the F1 circle and have witnessed the legendary drinking / party stories rather than hear them from afar. He’s just a bit more that the media trained sterile average driver to me.
I’m not sure of that Bottas news, which seems to be nothing more than a Finnish connection. But for sure having separated from his wife to “give 100% to F1” I wonder if he now feels that was worth while.
Hamilton, Russell, Perez, Norris and Verstappen could be fireworks at the front, with Lewis very much the “old man” of the grid next year.
He’s just a bit more that the media trained sterile average driver to me.
He's a bit "less" surely? I mean some of the first radio "I'm busy" transmissions were a bit fun for 5 mins, but to base an entire persona/lifestyle on it smacks of the work of a hired "media-professional consultant"
Mleh, I'm pretty sure he won't loose much sleep as he counts his millions.
Lewis very much the “old man” of the grid next year.
If you’ve forgotten Alonso, I guess 😉
I mean some of the first radio “I’m busy” transmissions were a bit fun for 5 mins, but to base an entire persona/lifestyle on it smacks of the work of a hired “media-professional consultant”
What about the 10 years before "I'm busy"? He's always been a man of few words for the media, my understanding was that he did it because he wasn't interested in them knowing what he's really like and would try and avoid things such as PR events and interviews. I can get on board with that, it's like he just enjoys driving fast
I liked Kimi. He was a bit different to the current instamedia whores
What we really need is women in F1. Unless anyone thinks they can't rdive well enough.
Legendary Kimi
I remember watching that BITD and thought it was a very funny moment at the time.
Nice to hear an honest reply to a question. Everybody at any level wants a shit before a race, grass roots push bikes or multimillion pound racing cars
What we really need is women in F1. Unless anyone thinks they can’t rdive well enough.
What a bizarre comment. Desperate to find someone to have a fight with?
It does seem strange to me that Alfa are ditching two drivers with Ferrari connections for two with Merc connections.
Changing to Mercedes power maybe?
Sauber Mercedes has a nice ring to it.
Interesting line through turn 3 from the safety car 🙂
Actually that car looks/sounds a bit of a handful, even accounting for how green the track must be.
Twodogs
Full Member
What a tosserPosted 22 hours ago
Leave him alone. He know's what he is doing.
🙂
I'll miss him.
That safety car video - my fist impression was "are they really going to run a F1 race there?". It looks very narrow and windy. Is this going to be another procession with everyone finishing inqualifying order?
Is this going to be another procession with everyone finishing inqualifying order?
Yes...
Interesting line through turn 3 from the safety car 🙂
Got to practice, a lights to flag victory doesn't come easy
What about the 10 years before “I’m busy”?
Sure, he's always been taciturn, but after the world went a bit mad, for "Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing" he clearly cashed in, and that's just as media driven as all the other drivers. Kimi's not really different, he just found a niche that was easy to exploit is all.
What we really need is women in F1. Unless anyone thinks they can’t rdive well enough.
spoiling for a fight? I think women should be in F1, they compete in nearly every other formula including Indycar which I guess is the nearest to F1. Honestly I think it's only a matter of time, but getting to F1 is hard for everyone, not just women, there are thousands of drivers probably good enough to actually drive the cars, and only 20 or so seats, and the pressure on that first woman will be immense
and the pressure on that first woman will be immense
I think you mean third not first.....
Maria Teresa de Filippis - 1958
Lella Lombardi - 1975 and 1976
I think you mean third not first…..
Maria Teresa de Filippis – 1958
Lella Lombardi – 1975 and 1976
change Nickc's comment to "in the modern era" and it still stands though. All eyes will definitely be on the next woman driver, for a the first few races anyway
Bugger! That looks very narrow.
If that can be F1 standard we should push for a race at Cadwell Park! 🙂