[Closed] Expensive children

Part of the problem is the necessity for double income to afford mortgages, resulting in both parents at work, thus needing child care all day. In part this can be blamed some years ago on crazy mortgage lending which has pushed prices up to massive levels, but also our continued obsession with home ownership in the UK. We must own a home, even if it means double income and near bankruptcy, but also must have the kids etc. If the country focused on what they could actually afford, then prices may have been lower.

Love or hate Europe, in many parts they see housing as a roof over their heads rather than investment, with affordable rent and they can get on with actually living.

The house thing is a complete nightmare. The "average" house would see the "average" income family financially crucified while raising kids.

I think for most, whatever your salary, you simply do the best you can for your kids even sometimes have to miss out, kids don't remember how expensive holidays were or what car daddy drove as they go grow up, they remember the quality time you spent with them and that you loved them and told them so.

Both my wife and i work full time, we have to, we rely heavily on my mother in law to have my daughter before school for an hour and sometimes after school, but we would rather that than a stranger. We moved from better jobs in Surrey away from family, to Norfolk to be near the in-laws and as my daughter is T1 diabetic and it was important she went to a small rural school where she thrives rather than a bog school where she'll be lost. I pay nearly £200.00 a month for her to have the best Diabetes CGM i can to help her, even though that means i drive a £400 car, i don't care what the badge on the front, she is more important.

But whenever we have time together she is centre of everything and that is what children remember.

So glad I didn’t outsource full-time childcare to a nursery, frankly it sounds unkind.  From birth to starting school are the most amazing years and wouldn’t have missed it for the world.  Actually it’s rather nice now to hear my adult kids talking fondly about their childhood.

Wow, your horse is high!

Scandinavian countries are at the top of the league for many things, including family life and quality childhood, yet ALL kids go to (heavily state subsidised) nursery from an early age, both parents work but unlike in the UK companies respect the need for family life so everyone down tools at 4pm and staying late is frowned upon.

I'm glad that you were lucky enough to not work when your kids were pre-school, others may not have that luxury. Personally, I believe it's better for kids to mix with others from an early age, nursery does this well. I'm also not sure how much more quality time our daughter would get if she didn't go to nursey for 3 days a week.

Actually it’s rather nice now to hear my adult kids talking fondly about their childhood.

But very little of that (if any) will be from their pre-school years will it? Maybe the odd memory will stick (one of my daughters remembers tiny parts of a big family trip to LA, the other cannot remember a single thing – they 3yrs 7mths at the time – just 8mths before starting school).

I think for most, whatever your salary, you simply do the best you can for your kids even sometimes have to miss out, kids don’t remember how expensive holidays were or what car daddy drove as they go grow up, they remember the quality time you spent with them and that you loved them and told them so.

This basically.

We've got two girls (currently 8 and 11) we both need to work full time to afford a suitable house in the area we want to live (Bromley, Kent) so the kids were in Childcare before they started school.

My wife is a teacher so gets to spend the majority of school holidays with our kids, which softens the impact of working full time. The kids have costs us a fortune over the years in stuff you don't think of.. a couple of examples -

£2k on Cranial re-shaping helmet for our youngest - she had a mis-shaped skull due to a traumatic birth but NHS wouldn't pay as the treatment was classed as cosmetic.

£4.5k on Specialist Dyslexia provision during yrs 5+6 for the eldest, this was due to school not supporting her properly - worth every penny as it transformed her view of Dyslexia (from a disability to a 'super power') improved her confidence no end and got her into the Grammar steam at our chosen school.

The youngest is a gymnast and the oldest dances so regular spending to support this. Even though neither will make it to the top in either Gymnastics or Dance i feel they're leaning some good life lessons (like it takes a long time and hard work to be really good at something) and it is keeping them fit/active.

Whilst we've sacrificed a lot for the kids i never really think of it like that - i'm massively proud of the grounded, lovely people they're turning into and will always put them first.

And to echo what freeagent just said, 'palming them off' at activities after school in itself is still a social experience as a family - they still need dropping off and collecting, parents can stay (I always stay to watch one of mine in her horse riding lessons) and there are often end of term socials (ie, music concerts, dancing displays etc etc) and we use what skills we have as parents to further support them (for example my wife does the music support, I take them out running). Next year we get a day out with one of ours at the county level cross country race she qualified for).

Parents saying Uni is expensive? My parents dropped me off at halls in 1st year, said "bye" and left me to it. Loan and a part time job paid for my rental and living.

So much mollycoddling. Shocking.

So much mollycoddling. Shocking.

If you are able to support your child then don't you think you should? Or do you think it is better that they take out loans and work whilst trying to study? We started regularly saving for our girls' further education when they were about 2 years old - it won't be enough to pay for a full three years of study at current saving rate, but it will certainly help - they should have around £18,000 each unless an emergency dictates we have to cash it in.

I don't see my horse as being high cheers_drive, have only stated my opinion and of course it's up to everyone to make their own decisions.  As regards comparing the UK to Scandinavia, not only is there a huge difference in population but also it simply wouldn't be possible to enforce a 4.00pm finish every day.  Not sure either that the State should be expected to subsidise childcare.

Yes, as has been stated, high property prices have a lot to answer for and the Tories seem happy for this to continue.  Equally one has to cut one's cloth but easy credit is available and some make full use of it.

My children (less than 2 years between them) regularly socialised and were lucky that there were such excellent public parks and open spaces within a short distance.  Had a bit of an open house anyway although realise that those who're house-proud would shudder at the thought!  Entertainment tended to be simpler not least cos you'd never see me taking them to Thorpe Park or similar.

I don't expect to have any grandkids but can say with certainty that I would not be involved in any childcare and that's regardless of my crap health.

Parents saying Uni is expensive? My parents dropped me off at halls in 1st year, said “bye” and left me to it. Loan and a part time job paid for my rental and living.

That's because they don't like you.

I always had an inkling that may have been the case

never see me taking them to Thorpe Park or similar.

Child cruelty!!!  What is so wrong with taking them for a day out?

I don’t know why people insist on quoting 1% percentile of top earners if you take home £5k a month.

Who cares what percentile you fit in?

My comment is if you take away all benefits (already quoted) from the subsidised income to the household then you are going to need about £5k a month nett to fund all the stuff you do with families and living..

Thats not hard to comprehend when people are quoting on here that they pay £1200 a month on childcare alone..

Percentile ? Where and what does that matter.

but also it simply wouldn’t be possible to enforce a 4.00pm finish every day

Why not, laws are laws.

My comment is if you take away all benefits (already quoted) from the subsidised income to the household then you are going to need about £5k a month nett to fund all the stuff you do with families and living..

No you dont, we have less than that between us, take away child benefit we'd hardly notice tbh

Percentile ? Where and what does that matter.

It proves you are takling shite

Who cares what percentile you fit in?

The 99% who earn less than you, and are a little bored of hearing how tough life is for you. Perhaps you could post your address so we can send you very small violins.

I come out with marginally more than £2k per month and we get £134 in child benefit per month to cover both kids. As stated Mrs F doesn’t work at the moment. So we  have less than half of your stated £5k. Yes we don’t have much (if anything) spare each month after mortgage, food etc. However, I would still count myself better off than a hell of a lot of people though.

I do think this place is skewed and the majority on here earn quite a good living. Still, to state £5k minimum is ludicrous. As Cinnamon stated, you cut your cloth to suit. If I wanted to be wealthy I wouldn’t have had kids.

high property prices

I don't buy this.  When I was young my parents had 4 jobs between them and a mortgage at 18% or something ridiculous.  I spent a lot of time with my grandparents, there was no such thing as an after school club.  Short of money is short of money no matter what decade you are in.   Its "high outgoings, low disposable income" we should be discussing.

My comment is if you take away all benefits (already quoted) from the subsidised income to the household then you are going to need about £5k a month nett to fund all the stuff you do with families and living..

And many people have told you they are not earning that much and are still capably supporting their kids.

As for the social element, its good for kids to socialise and build their independence.  It was one of the key points in our decision for Mrs K to remain part time, that our children would receive social skills and some pre-school skills from nursery.  100% of adult time may not be the best for them.

but also it simply wouldn’t be possible to enforce a 4.00pm finish every day

Why not, laws are laws.

Because I work in a hospital

Childcare is much more expensive in cities than in more rural areas. When my daughter was in nursery we paid around £380 a month for three days a week at the nursery in the village. Friends only half an hour away in Bath were paying nearly double that.

We've certainly got less money now than when before we had a child, but that is partially due to my leaving a fairly well paid university job and setting up a couple of new companies. Do I miss the money? A little bit, but I am now able to drop off and pick my daughter up from school and generally have more free time to ride.

JP

I don’t buy this.

You might not, but it's true. Look at the ratio of earnings to house prices over the last few decades.

I remember as a kid, two guys who were very spoilt materially in comparison to the rest of us.

One of them even had the mythical beast known as Mongoose, the only one I ever saw in the flesh.

As they got older, their parents went on to buy them cars instead of bikes.  These were abused and crashed.  New ones were bought.

Both of them didn't amount to much.  One did time for beating his baby while in a druggy rage.

I use Brian and Scott as my excuse for not spoiling my kids. 🙂

They bought their children everything except decent first names.

Who cares what percentile you fit in?

The 99% who earn less than you, and are a little bored of hearing how tough life is for you. Perhaps you could post your address so we can send you very small violins.

None of you know how much I earn, so making assumptions is pointless.

Ive never said life is tough for me, so again a pointless comment.

Why would I need small violins? I can’t play the violin so a pointless comment again.

Carry on moaning about how much you don’t earn and how much childcare costs you, wallow in your own self pity.

There are plenty of folks on here, other than you, who are in the “percentile” game who still moan about the costs of childcare. Plenty of people take home £5k a month who still moan, plenty of folk who if they didn’t have benefit assistance would be sunk into debt yet still month in month out pay for childcare.

I don’t have kids, that’s my life choice.

That doesn’t stop me from working out, based upon others on here’s comments about money, figuring out what it costs to look after kids and how people cope.

If you want to start slinging mud around, do it whilst looking in the mirror first.

Ahh, It's just dawned on me! I think (although not 100% sure) that Bikebouy is talking about the Harrogate cost of family upkeep, which is different to say, Grimsby.   😉

Carry on moaning about how much you don’t earn and how much childcare costs you, wallow in your own self pity.

Feel free to quote the relevant posts. Alternatively, realize that you are talking out of your fundament, and slink off quietly.

BikeBuoy, I don’t understand while you fail to grasp / read what people here are telling you over and over - that not all of us earn £5k a month yet we cope fine with our arrangements.  Seeing as we actually do this on a daily, weekly monthly basis, we are far more qualified to argue against your statement which you just admitted was based on maths.

You might not, but it’s true. Look at the ratio of earnings to house prices over the last few decades.

Ransos, what I’m trying to say is that life is expensive, whether you live in the 70’s paying £1000 a month due to low cost housing but high mortgage interest rates, or now with lower mortgage interest rates.  It makes no difference, people with less disposable income are inevitably poorer, regardless of whether they stay at home or use childcare - because of the simple fact they have less disposable income.  It may change your available choice.  

Ransos, what I’m trying to say is that life is expensive,

And what I'm saying is that housing has become less affordable. Because numbers.

Because I work in a hospital

Shit, do they not have hospitals in Sweden no wonder its such a cess pit!

We've got 2 kids, 5 and 2. We both work (wife 3 days a week), and take home around 4k a month in total. We also get child benefit as I continuously engineer my taxable income to be less than 50k each year (if I go over that my effective tax rate is over 60% I think due to the tapering off of CB).

Until the eldest started school childcare was about a grand a month (with 30h free - didn't really save much money though due to wrap around care needed). However we did use the government's tax free childcare service to save 20% (so really £800 cost to us).

Now the eldest has started school we've an extra £300 which we budgeted away for holidays (which always came from pre kids savings) and spiralling inflationary costs of existing things eg groceries etc.

We have 1 middling car, I bike everywhere, a house that we own with a mortgage, haven't been abroad in more than 5 years etc.

But we also realise what a fortunate position we are in. No debts apart from mortgage. Nursery was great for the kids and my wife has kept her foot in the door career wise. Friends of ours seem to have it all but we're just chipping away and really grateful for what we have.

I totally understand and sympathise for everyone who had to give up work due to childcare costs. It's a really difficult decision and everyone had their own opinion about it.

Surprised at all the negative comments about dropping kids at nursery. Our little one absolutely loves it! Always comes back in a good mood and surprises us with stuff she's learnt. We put her in at around 12 months I think.

Yes, both my kids literally skip/run into nursery. I think this is a good sign. They’ve made some nice friends and we’ve met some lovely parents that potentially could be lifelong friends.

My partner dropped to three days a week to keep her hand in at her job whilst the kids go to nursery. This means four consecutive days with their parents during a week. I feel this is a nice balance between “palming them off” and nurturing them at home. They seem happy anyhow. 😊

Would agree with the comments supporting nurseries as well. It doesn't mean they have to be there 12 hours a day 5 days a week (although some will be) but it helps their learning and allows them to interact with other children from an early age which is all good for development. Spending the whole week with mum or dad isn't going to help them develop in the same ways. As always a nice balance is always best.

very few folk have £5000 a month take home pay.  Most folk produce kids.  therefore its utter nonsense to say you need that much money to bring up kids.

dose of reality needed

I don't take home £5K. & since my missus' business went "quiet", children are indeed expensive. Little J loved his childcare and practically begs to be put in night owls or breakfast club! Swimming ,football ,French & a music class ffs. My car is falling to bits and we haven't been on holiday for a while.

Naughty Bikebuoy - you are one of the contributors to this forum who often speaks alot of sense & provides plenty of light relief ,to me at least ,but for some reason a thread like this stirs you up like a Percussive contributor on a religion thread. 🙂

We don't have any children and were lucky enough to get into the housing market before the current craziness kicked in. We can only begin to imagine how a couple with kids manage to make ends meet - even on a modest income, never mind a low one. The concept of spending more on childcare than we ever did on our mortgage (because that's what every single one of the amounts mentioned in this thread are) is quite simply mind-boggling.

Mortgages, rents, childcare, insurance, fuel/energy prices, university fees (and the expectations that most kids will go to uni) eating out regularly, buying coffee on the way to work, 2 or more cars per family, lease cars etc. put such a demand on modern life, that I wonder how we sleep walked into this situation

I accept that some of the above will be luxuries for a significant number of people, but there's a definite downward spiral that's very worrying.

I shudder to think what lies ahead.

I shudder to think what lies ahead

I think more people are not going to be able to retire comfortably, more will die in service, more will die with massive debt

If you add our mortgage costs to childcare that's nearly £2.7k a month gone.  Before you pay for bills and food and other stuff.  My budget spreadsheet gives a total outgoings of near £4.5k.  And that does not account for unexpected bills or savings.  The only luxuries on there are gym, spotfiy, zwift and possibly broadband.

We have a 5yr kia sportage, a 10yr dented focus and spent 4 days on holiday this year camping I spend less than £250 a month on petrol/diesel as we located close to our work.

We do have a good size 4 bed in a niceish area of the one of the cheapest cities on the south coast.  However we could only afford it because it is in a state and needs a lot of time and money thrown at it - most of which I'm doing myself as I can't afford the workmen.  This is a conscious choice to do it up, to downsize later in life so we can hopefully have a decent retirement fund / fund kids university, plus we get to bring our kids up in it.  We have no other savings outside of the pension.  Could be a dumb idea, hopefully it wont be

The whole income needed thing depends very much where in the country you are, and whether you were able to ride the equity wave (which unfortunately we missed...)