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Her children have grown up and gone. She’s of retirement age currently enjoying quite a few trips, new house etc with her partner and as far as I know, neither work. Nice.
She went through all this many decades ago and has failed to realise that times have changed, clearly.
Or potentially throwing a career away that you’ve spent years building and maybe throwing future money away?
Under a grand a month for nursery would be amazing - round here it’s £85 (plus £15 for every 15 mins you are late picking up). Then doubled by two kids under three. That’s £67k in gross salary right there.
Not Shouldn’t there be a link to the Savings thread and the the other one where “can you get your hands on a grand” thread?
This is ace.
Vilified for needing £5k a month income is proven that in today’s society, £5k a month is barely living wage.
Unfortunately its the challenge of modern life isn't it? We all want it all these days...the career, the money, the nice house and car, and the perfect Facebook family and not prepared to accept any of the compromises of achieving any of that, like the affect on peoples careers and pensions.
Kids are expensive and I'm a firm believer that parents and family need to take an active part in their bringing up...which means not only investing money in their kids bit the thing that is most important to the kids themselves....their parents time.
We were lucky, parents that lived near, both of us working for a company that gives generous maternity leave (but not paternity leave unfotunately), very flexible with part time working after having kids, so we managed to bring our kids upto school age by having them primarily looked after either by parents or grandparents. It's alot easier (though not less expensive) once all the kids are at school.
But it's difficult. I see some parents dropping their kids off at nursery at about 6 months, and I'm sure they're not doing that out of choice - I hope not anyway. Companies need to be more flexible across the board for both parents, and parents themselves need to accept that they have to make alot of compromises in their lives when kids come along. You might not be able to afford that nice car you wanted, you might not be able to invest so much of your income on a big mortgage for that fancy house and just live in a smaller one in a less expensive area, you may need to go camping in the UK for your holiday for a few years instead of an all inclusive hotel at an exotic location (kids would prefer that anyway), your career ambitions might need to take a delay for a few years.
I guess alot of us are that transition generation....brought up in the old 'traditional' family unit with a stay at home mum, but our reality and the future is one where both parents have to work and, probably get divorced or not even marry or live together at all. I'm not sure everything about progress is for the better.
to be fair nursery is only a couple of years. our 2 are only in nursery 3 days a week as we chose for my wife to go part time. we also chose for her to have a full year off with both as you don't get that time twice. During this time our outgoings were £500pcm more than we were earning, and we both earn a good deal above the national average so some here would say "rich". currently feeling far from it. no flash cars / holidays / bikes here.
this period has pretty much wiped out our savings just to stay afloat. some serious belt tightening had been needed.
the eldest now has those free hours and our outgoings have reduced a significant margin.
it's your personal choice if when your child care cost reduce you then chose to spend it on super expensive trips sending them to the US and the like. but it's not a necessity of having kids
There is no doubt expectationns have been raised. A while back we wanted a marketing bod for the business so advertised the role as 9.30 to 15.00 and all school holidays off i thought we would have loads of application's we got one. The person was looking to go back to work after a first child, we had pro rata the salary of £36k + full bonus of approx £5k so a sensible salary in the North of England. This added to £18k+ for 25 hours a week and al school holidays off.
The one applicant said they wanted more hour's? As they could make an extra £4 an hour after child care costs.
Vilified for needing £5k a month income is proven that in today’s society, £5k a month is barely living wage.
Oh do grow up. I live in the South of england, have a kid and take home much less than that. We do fine!
Wobbliscott hits the nail on the head with
the thing that is most important to the kids themselves….their parents time.
But even that can kick you up the bum. An ex colleague of mine spent a fair bit of time & money on one of his sons who was a very promising swimmer. Early mornings at the pool & travelling all over the place for competitions for a few years only to be told by the lad one morning at 4.30am, 'don't think I'll go today Dad, can't be bothered anymore' & that was it.
Anyway, kids should be banned. there's far too many of them. The world population's going crackers & people are still churning them out.
Back in the day, you didn’t have children until you could afford to keep them, and take time off work to look after your children, not palm the poor little bu66ers off on to someone else. My kids would have hated me not being there for them. Do folks not consider that maybe children need their parents?
And don’t get me started on ridiculously expensive trips and holidays, most of you folk clearly have money to throw away, so stop whinging about it.
If only the people who could afford to stay at home and not rely on a nursery were the ones to have kids, then there'd be some sort of population crisis in this country within a generation, so few kids would be born.
Maybe we should all have the father working 12hr days, 6 days per week, whilst the mother stays at home cooking and doing the housework in a tiny 2 up 2 down whilst kids run around in tattered clothing playing with sticks, like back in the day. Oh yeah, it's 2018.
And nursery is not a bad thing, my daughter goes three days a week now and she loves it. She has friends there and it has made her so much more confident, speeded up potty training, brought her speech on. The difference we see in her and children who stay at home is remarkable (to us anyway.)
<div class="bbp-reply-author">Kryton57
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">Her children have grown up and gone. She’s of retirement age currently enjoying quite a few trips, new house etc with her partner and as far as I know, neither work. Nice.
She went through all this many decades ago and has failed to realise that times have changed, clearly.
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Your time will come, dear boy 😉 Also realise I had to lose both parents to gain this lifestyle 🙁
I think what I'm trying to say is people want too much these days, we didn't have two cars (obviously the kids and I had bikes), didn't go to exotic foreign destinations for our holidays (Wales in May was lovely and cheap for a few days, the kids loved it), didn't have take-aways and meals out, didn't have all the latest "fad" toys. I think it's a shame that the world of kids has become so materialistic/money driven.
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Back in the day, you didn’t have children until you could afford to keep them
Back in the day the cost of living was such that single income families were a more realistic prospect, but then the people of that day decided they deserved to ‘earn’ a 500% profit on their home, they’d sell every publicly owned utility and service for a quick buck, and get triple locked, gold plated final salary pensions and ask those children to pay for it all.
Thats why back in the day people could afford to have children in their early 20s and Mum could stay at home with them. But you know ‘glib comment about iPhones or Sky’ or whatever yeah?
Oh do grow up
I’ve grown up and made the right life choices thanks.
Fact of life though, as I said in that other thread.. £5k take home amount ain’t a lot to live a family on.
£5k take home amount ain’t a lot to live a family on.
Yet 90% of households seem to manage. You are just making yourself look like a stupid ignorant out of touch idiot by repeating it all the time.
Fact of life though, as I said in that other thread.. £5k take home amount ain’t a lot to live a family on.
What a load of piss. 5k take home a month, that must be 100k a year salary.
Or potentially throwing a career away that you’ve spent years building and maybe throwing future money away?
What rubbish. A proper parent looks after their kids first and thinks about themselves afterwards. And looking after doesn’t mean treating them with stuff, sending them on expensive trips and lessons and stuff.
We didn’t have an awesome house, we didn’t have a car for many years, I shared a bedroom until I was 17, we never went abroad on holidays etc etc cos my parents made the choice that one of them would give up work to look after us.
Kids really don’t care about how much money your household has.
Fact of life though, as I said in that other thread.. £5k take home amount ain’t a lot to live a family on.
What crap. You can’t really believe that can you? It really isn’t a “fact” is it?
Kids really don’t care about how much money your household has.
Oh I don't know, my 9yo came back from his mates house the other day and told us there house was better because it had 4 bedrooms and a bigger telly. 😀
Your time will come, dear boy. Also realise I had to lose both parents to gain this lifestyle.
My respectful commiserations. I recently lost mine and got F all.
A proper parent looks after their kids first and thinks about themselves afterwards. And looking after doesn’t mean treating them with stuff, sending them on expensive trips and lessons and stuff.
Well yes and no. Having recently turned down a promotion myself, and with my wife turning down an increase to 5 days a week from 3 so we can enjoy Kid time I'd agree. I'm lucky that my job is flexible and mostly my diary is within my own control, so I don't miss much. Quite right, you cannot "buy" your kids time or love.
However, affording them sports, clubs etc is often to give them chances in life and social development. Most of those may never amount to much, but some might. E.g, we never knew Jnr would rise to British Academy Development swimming level at 9yo, but he loves it and enjoys the racing so there's now way I'm going to deny him that opportunity because I want to spend the money on a new Smart TV to keep up with the neighbours.
BTW anyone want to buy a TT bike... 🙁
I taught at an expensive private school some years back. There was a positive correlation between how much dosh was spent on the kids (mainly in competition with other parents) and the unhappiness of the child.
They instinctively knew it was more about their parents desire to show off than their well being.
They instinctively knew it was more about their parents desire to show off than their well being.
This is interesting. There's a couple of parent we refer to as "the Chameleons". This is because despite being a generally annoying couple from a personality perspective, they have a tendency to deliberately ingratiate themselves with people of any kind of perceived stature (teachers, coaches) and enter their kid into everything that someone else kid already does as a success - having purchased all the best gear for it.
There own friendships are short lived, and the kids a nightmare at school, constantly fighting having tantrums resulting in daily phone calls home from the school.
I think the child isn't as good at things as the parents would like him to be, so he's constantly "losing" amongst his peers. He can't be himself, he has virtually no friends because of the tantrums, and is the kid that no one wants in a team.
The mum once told Mrs K the (9yo) child and dad have regular shouty/door slamming - both of them - arguments at home.
Sad.
Fact of life though, as I said in that other thread.. £5k take home amount ain’t a lot to live a family on.
Have I misread something? Is that 5K a month your'e talking about?
@kryton, yes working in that school certainly opened my eyes. Also, the relationship between the parents is often based on being able to satisfy The Image - if the husband loses his job, or the wife loses her looks, the relationship - which is at root a transaction - is over.
One poor girl's father went bankrupt, she had to leave the school as he couldn't pay the fees (why are these things registered charities!), and then the mother divorced him and got together with another, still solvent/wealthy dad at the school. Materialism in the place of love, and like I said, the kids often pick up on all this at an early age. Not a happy school overall, and perhaps it helps explain why the kids were really badly behaved (and I went to a bog standard school on a council estate, so that's saying something).
I'm kinda anal about budgeting, so here's my kids as a data point if that helps;
- 2 yr old - full time nursery - £1050 a month
- 5 yr old - breakfast club 4 days a week, after school club 5 days a week, about 20 days of holiday club a year = £282 a month (that's annual costs divided by 12 - obviously varies a bit between hols and term time)
I calculated that when the 2 yr old goes to school based nursery next Sept then with the 30 h free it will be £377 a month for equivalent hours to the 5 yr old (more as paying for hours over 30 h per week and lunches are not free).
Everyone is different and so are their situations. That been said we just couldn’t send our kids to nursery. It just felt fundamentally wrong to us. They still went / go to lots of groups and activities. Funk Jr went to preschool 2.5 days from the age of 3 and contrary to other posts, he was the most confident, outgoing kid there. Go figure confirmation bias.
We have very little in the way of possessions. Mrs F was a self employed advanced driving instructor and quit to stay at home. Not ridden my bike in few months because I need a new front brake and don’t have lights for night riding. My soffits need replacing amongst other house repairs. We live in a 2 bedroom house (me, Mrs F, one baby girl and toddler boy) with no foreseeable way of sizing up. Only have a car because the FiL is a semiretired mechanic.
None of that matters though because the kids (and Mrs F) are happy and healthy. I’d rather be skint and have Mrs F be with them than both of us work just to put them in nursery. I’m envious of Mrs F. To complain about the costs of nursery fees just seems bizarre and like it or not it is a choice. So stop complaining 😉
my child care for nursery 4 days a week is £56 every 4 weeks. The extra expense is when they start eating the same take aways as you 🙁
Do folks not consider that maybe children need their parents?
Yes children need their parents but they also should have opportunities to explore what they can do. Parents don't palm children off at clubs because they can't be bothered with looking after them, they do it to give them opportunities to do more of the things they enjoy. I just wish my parents had the financial ability to allow me to do the things I desperately wanted to do as a child but they couldn't afford it. On the other hand, my wife grew up in a financially better off family unit and she (along with her two brothers) got to try things such as music, ballet, rugby, dance, horse riding etc. She found she really enjoyed music and ended up (along with her younger brother) playing instruments to concert level (Grade 5 I believe) and is now using her skills to help support the teaching our girls get in their music lessons. The only music I managed was self-funded bass guitar lessons when I was 18 and received a small amount of money from my grandparents (from which I bough the guitar too).
kids are expensive yes and there's been a few times where I've pictured my life without them, wealthier in time and money, but then my 2yr old just learning to talk says 'I lub you daddy' and that is a worth beyond all monetary value. 🙂
Fact of life though, as I said in that other thread.. £5k take home amount ain’t a lot to live a family on.
Have I misread something? Is that 5K a month your’e talking about?
No, you’ve not missed anything.
That is indeed £5k take home a month.
If all the support benefits (tax credits/child/income support/child care) allowances were to stop today, right now, I reckon a family would need £5k a month to live on.
We are really lucky. Our 4 year old used to go to a childminder to allow my wife to work part time and then went to a pre-school. It used to cost about £300 a month but would reduce with the 30 hours free. My wife now has a job that starts at 9.30 and finishes at 1.30 and he is at school so childcare costs are zero at the moment. He goes to one after school club out of choice on a Thursday (it is a sports session so he asked to go to it) which costs us £3 a week.
Other than that at the moment he is prob the lowest cost since we had him (no more nappies etc, eats tea with us). I expect that to change but we are all home from work/school by 3.45 every day and get to spend loads of time as a family whilst maintaining a comfortable income. The strange at the moment is when the wife and I are home on a Thursday and the little guy isn't there!
but then my 2yr old just learning to talk says ‘I lub you daddy’
Fast forward 7 years - one of my little darlings found my Dyno printer, printed out and successfully stuck on my back 'Kick me in the but because I am dum'. I was most annoyed at the spelling errors TBF 🙂
No, you’ve not missed anything.
That is indeed £5k take home a month.
If all the support benefits (tax credits/child/income support/child care) allowances were to stop today, right now, I reckon a family would need £5k a month to live on.
You're pretty wrong there. I don't take home that much and I'd suspect nor do most here, but a lot of us manage Ok.
That is indeed £5k take home a month.
If all the support benefits (tax credits/child/income support/child care) allowances were to stop today, right now, I reckon a family would need £5k a month to live on.
For 2015-16, a net income of £5K a month would put you around the 96th percentile of earners.
Or, if that's 2 salaries combined, you'd be in the 82nd percentile of households.
It's been a few years since I was on tax credits but i can assure you that it didn't bring me up to the level of a 96th percentile earner.
It's definitely better once they get to school - we didn't use nursery beyond the free 15 hours to 'socialise' but now they are at school Mrs B is working 3 days so we can cover the new costs there plus some.
However they don't feel cheaper if you stop for supper at Pizza Express once they are beyond the child menus :-O
So glad I didn't outsource full-time childcare to a nursery, frankly it sounds unkind. From birth to starting school are the most amazing years and wouldn't have missed it for the world. Actually it's rather nice now to hear my adult kids talking fondly about their childhood.
Part of the problem is the necessity for double income to afford mortgages, resulting in both parents at work, thus needing child care all day. In part this can be blamed some years ago on crazy mortgage lending which has pushed prices up to massive levels, but also our continued obsession with home ownership in the UK. We must own a home, even if it means double income and near bankruptcy, but also must have the kids etc. If the country focused on what they could actually afford, then prices may have been lower.
Love or hate Europe, in many parts they see housing as a roof over their heads rather than investment, with affordable rent and they can get on with actually living.
The house thing is a complete nightmare. The "average" house would see the "average" income family financially crucified while raising kids.
I think for most, whatever your salary, you simply do the best you can for your kids even sometimes have to miss out, kids don't remember how expensive holidays were or what car daddy drove as they go grow up, they remember the quality time you spent with them and that you loved them and told them so.
Both my wife and i work full time, we have to, we rely heavily on my mother in law to have my daughter before school for an hour and sometimes after school, but we would rather that than a stranger. We moved from better jobs in Surrey away from family, to Norfolk to be near the in-laws and as my daughter is T1 diabetic and it was important she went to a small rural school where she thrives rather than a bog school where she'll be lost. I pay nearly £200.00 a month for her to have the best Diabetes CGM i can to help her, even though that means i drive a £400 car, i don't care what the badge on the front, she is more important.
But whenever we have time together she is centre of everything and that is what children remember.
So glad I didn’t outsource full-time childcare to a nursery, frankly it sounds unkind. From birth to starting school are the most amazing years and wouldn’t have missed it for the world. Actually it’s rather nice now to hear my adult kids talking fondly about their childhood.
Wow, your horse is high!
Scandinavian countries are at the top of the league for many things, including family life and quality childhood, yet ALL kids go to (heavily state subsidised) nursery from an early age, both parents work but unlike in the UK companies respect the need for family life so everyone down tools at 4pm and staying late is frowned upon.
I'm glad that you were lucky enough to not work when your kids were pre-school, others may not have that luxury. Personally, I believe it's better for kids to mix with others from an early age, nursery does this well. I'm also not sure how much more quality time our daughter would get if she didn't go to nursey for 3 days a week.
Actually it’s rather nice now to hear my adult kids talking fondly about their childhood.
But very little of that (if any) will be from their pre-school years will it? Maybe the odd memory will stick (one of my daughters remembers tiny parts of a big family trip to LA, the other cannot remember a single thing – they 3yrs 7mths at the time – just 8mths before starting school).
I think for most, whatever your salary, you simply do the best you can for your kids even sometimes have to miss out, kids don’t remember how expensive holidays were or what car daddy drove as they go grow up, they remember the quality time you spent with them and that you loved them and told them so.
This basically.
We've got two girls (currently 8 and 11) we both need to work full time to afford a suitable house in the area we want to live (Bromley, Kent) so the kids were in Childcare before they started school.
My wife is a teacher so gets to spend the majority of school holidays with our kids, which softens the impact of working full time. The kids have costs us a fortune over the years in stuff you don't think of.. a couple of examples -
£2k on Cranial re-shaping helmet for our youngest - she had a mis-shaped skull due to a traumatic birth but NHS wouldn't pay as the treatment was classed as cosmetic.
£4.5k on Specialist Dyslexia provision during yrs 5+6 for the eldest, this was due to school not supporting her properly - worth every penny as it transformed her view of Dyslexia (from a disability to a 'super power') improved her confidence no end and got her into the Grammar steam at our chosen school.
The youngest is a gymnast and the oldest dances so regular spending to support this. Even though neither will make it to the top in either Gymnastics or Dance i feel they're leaning some good life lessons (like it takes a long time and hard work to be really good at something) and it is keeping them fit/active.
Whilst we've sacrificed a lot for the kids i never really think of it like that - i'm massively proud of the grounded, lovely people they're turning into and will always put them first.
And to echo what freeagent just said, 'palming them off' at activities after school in itself is still a social experience as a family - they still need dropping off and collecting, parents can stay (I always stay to watch one of mine in her horse riding lessons) and there are often end of term socials (ie, music concerts, dancing displays etc etc) and we use what skills we have as parents to further support them (for example my wife does the music support, I take them out running). Next year we get a day out with one of ours at the county level cross country race she qualified for).
Parents saying Uni is expensive? My parents dropped me off at halls in 1st year, said "bye" and left me to it. Loan and a part time job paid for my rental and living.
So much mollycoddling. Shocking.
So much mollycoddling. Shocking.
If you are able to support your child then don't you think you should? Or do you think it is better that they take out loans and work whilst trying to study? We started regularly saving for our girls' further education when they were about 2 years old - it won't be enough to pay for a full three years of study at current saving rate, but it will certainly help - they should have around £18,000 each unless an emergency dictates we have to cash it in.
I don't see my horse as being high cheers_drive, have only stated my opinion and of course it's up to everyone to make their own decisions. As regards comparing the UK to Scandinavia, not only is there a huge difference in population but also it simply wouldn't be possible to enforce a 4.00pm finish every day. Not sure either that the State should be expected to subsidise childcare.
Yes, as has been stated, high property prices have a lot to answer for and the Tories seem happy for this to continue. Equally one has to cut one's cloth but easy credit is available and some make full use of it.
My children (less than 2 years between them) regularly socialised and were lucky that there were such excellent public parks and open spaces within a short distance. Had a bit of an open house anyway although realise that those who're house-proud would shudder at the thought! Entertainment tended to be simpler not least cos you'd never see me taking them to Thorpe Park or similar.
I don't expect to have any grandkids but can say with certainty that I would not be involved in any childcare and that's regardless of my crap health.