[Closed] EV drivers. Battery degradation?

Have you been driving a bit faster lately?

Did it last show 301 miles in summer? Could it just be winter temps that have restricted the potential range?

The Tesla remembers how you drive and takes into account temperature and god knows what else to calculate range. My bet is that’s what’s caused your reduction in range especially at 85% charge.

When did you last check tyre pressures?

The model 3 range calculation on the main display is a “dumb” estimate based on the energy in the battery and the cars consumption rating. It does not take into account any external factors or recent consumption data.

Are you sure? EVs generally calculate range based on recent consumption, current temperatures and the settings your aircon has been set to.

If you’ve driven differently on your last trip it’ll vary.

Thank you for the responses all. Thing is, the main range display doesn’t take any of that into account. An estimated range is available in the “energy” screen but you can’t tell the car to display that on the main display. Which leads me to believe it’s pure battery degradation. I think I’m going to switch to % charge on the main display and use the estimated range in conjunction with the navigation when needed.

Good grief it seeks you’re right, Tesla haven’t installed such software on the Model 3.

This might explain what you’re seeing rather battery degradation

https://insideevs.com/features/401481/tesla-range-estimator-improvment/

Thanks for the link. It’s crazy that they’ve went against the grain with almost every other EV manufacturer. Ultimately it’s a lease car that’s going back in a couple of years but it’s frustrating that I’m seeing this reduction after looking after the battery.

Maybe not “crazy” given this is Tesla we’re talking about.. but certainly not sensible!

Maybe not “crazy” given this is Tesla we’re talking about.. but certainly not sensible!

Yeah they seem to miss out on some simple stuff.

I’m going to switch to % charge on the main display and use the estimated range in conjunction with the navigation when needed

Yes try this, it takes some getting used to. Mine (SR+) has done 18k miles and is July 2019 registered. I switched to % fairly early on cos miles range estimations were just messing with my brain with all the differences and never getting the miles it promises. I use rapid chargers 99% of the time so my battery should be ****ed already if you believe the warnings. Also I've never knowingly re calibrated the battery, if that's a thing.
I'm charging this morning so I'll switch to miles and tell you in a few hours time if my miles estimation has dropped in the last 12 months (I'm pretty sure 12 months ago that 90% was equating to about 205miles).
Ultimately your car is on lease so thankfully not your problem in the long run.

Be glad it isn't a first gen Nissan Leaf. Apparently they are planned to have a 6-10 year working life :

Wait until temp is around 15+ to compare.

My EV drops a good 15% over winter then starts to spring back about now.

3 years old and still reaches nearly its peak capacity in the middle months.

Thanks all. The air temp doesn’t affect the main battery range displayed on the model 3. What worries me is that it lost a few miles over maybe 9-10 months but has now lost ~10 miles over the last couple of months. I’ve had no software updates in that time.

@ b.a.nana that’s useful be interesting to see what yours is displaying in mileage terms.

6-10 year working life is poor! I’ll try and watch the whole video later

Be glad it isn’t a first gen Nissan Leaf. Apparently they are planned to have a 6-10 year working life :

/blockquote>

https://www.cleevelyev.co.uk/battery-upgrades/

Place near me will swap in a recovered battery from a crashed one...for £8k or so (upgraded 40kWh).

I guess if you're not leasing them, it's a cost to offset against not having to service the oily bits every year. Although I thought battery prices had massively reduced now?

 

I’ve been running a Zoe for several years. I haven’t perceived any battery degradation but I do get massive variation in predicted range based on temperature.
I hear what you’re saying about the range indicator on the model 3, but if it’s metering charge going in to predict available charge in the battery, then this will be significantly affected by the temperature of the battery even if it’s not measuring and compensating for air temperature.

First gen leaf’s are another story. There’s a known design issue that causes massive battery degradation (lack of cooling). Whilst the Zoe shares a lot with the leaf, it differs by having a liquid cooled battery. Degradation isn’t a known issue with Zoe’s. I assume the Tesla has a good cooling solution and not a massive design issue, based on their long experience with other models.

I also switched to percentage view pretty early on. "range" in miles is pretty meaningless unless adjusted for route, speed, conditions etc. Model S 33k miles.

There's a sort of recalibration/balancing of the cells you can do. I would look that up. A lot of people have had their car's displayed range drop over time and then return on a cell rebalancing. I can't remember the exact details but essentially while it's good charging habit just always keeping it below say 90%, it does also mean this balancing step doesn't happen. Balancing involves leaving it to charge to 100% and then staying plugged in a bit longer (hour or so maybe?). Do it before a journey obvs.

For my use, it charges to 80% normally, but sometimes I do charge it to 100% to give me a margin of error on a 200 mile journey in the winter. Like you I also pretty much never fast charge. As far as I'm aware I've got minimal degradation so far but if you want to get geeky my teslafi battery report shows a gradual drop of about 3% over the first year and then a sudden jump back up. I suspect this was one of the above recalibrations.

Edit: and if you want to try teslafi give me a shout. There's a referral code system that I think gives you an extended free trial and then gives me a discount off my sub if you subscribe. It's a quite pricey subscription model but enables you to schedule charging and any other commands you send to the car, like warming it up on winter mornings, plus tracks all sorts of data. Clearly you have to give it access which is a security risk but its regarded as reputable and has been around for years.

Thank you that’s really useful. I’m going to look into this balancing/calibration thing. My wife is doing a 70ish mile round trip tomorrow so could be a good opportunity to brim it tonight.

One of the issues with the early Leaf was having 50kW charging on a 23kW battery which is way over the 100kW charging per 100kWh of battery capacity other manufacturers use as a ceiling. That and the lack of cooling.

The Zoé battery is air cooled with air cooled using a heat pump.

My first Zoé showed no signs of range loss after 2.5 years. The current one is 16 months old and no different to last year at the same period. I rarely charge above 90% and only fast charge on long trips. I think the fastest charge I've seen was 44kW, if it's hot or cold it drops to mid 30s and if it's really cold less than 20.

I've just rapid charged mine to 95% and it gave 207 notional miles on the main display, which is pretty much exactly the same as 12 months ago or 13000 miles ago. However I don't really know if it lost anything in the 9 months upto approx Mar/Apr last year. There are a few videos on YT that suggest you do have an accelerated loss of some battery capacity in the first year and then very little after that. there is also a vid of someone doing battery recalibration trying various methods and seeing no change in the miles on the main display, so he suggested recalibration might be a bit of a myth. As I said before mine has been rapid charged on 50kw chargers for 99% of those last 13000 miles, it's not been charged beyond 95% and mostly only to 80% and very rarely do I let it go below 30% before rapid charging back to 80%.

Interesting, I wonder if a supercharger now and then might not be bad idea.. I might drive to the one a few miles up the road and give it a whirl. I’ve got a long journey (hopefully!) to Goodwood from Newcastle in a couple of months so be good to get the lay of the land with billing etc.