[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

wobbliscott - Member
You forgot that the CEO of JCB and Dyson have endorsed leave - two of the most successful self made exporters around who have succeeded despite the EU and not because of it.

Where do they rank in terms of exporters?

What about all the other CEOs backing remain?

What happens to UK and other 'leading' economies if/when Italy's economy vaporises like Greece? And Spain?

I suppose my main concern is that there isn't enough in the pit to keep bailing out failing countries. That said, quantative easing usually seems to be the answer. So apparently there's no such thing as broke.

Why would anyone take notice of Dyson?

his opinion sucks.

There's a few more on the brexit movie, the boss of JML who sells all over the world, for exmaple.

You forgot that the CEO of JCB and Dyson have endorsed leave -

I personally am more likely to take a steer from those guys on the issue of trade and the economy.

Dyson moved manufacturing out of the UK, so he isn't an "exporter" as far as this country is concerned.

from wiki

Production moves to Malaysia[edit]

Initially, Dyson vacuum cleaners and washing machines were made in Malmesbury, Wiltshire. In 2002, the company transferred vacuum cleaner production to Malaysia. Dyson stated that the company requested planning permission to expand the factory to increase vacuum cleaner production, but that this application failed. However, the local government says that no such permission was ever sought, as the land Dyson planned to use was privately owned and the original owner did not want to sell.[26] The move was also due to the most suppliers being located in the Far East and Dyson wanted to get as close as possible to be cost effective.[27] Also, at the time of the interview, James Dyson mentioned that the market was largest in New Zealand, Australia, Japan and potentially in the Far East market, and therefore the decision to shift production to Far East was driven by the need to get closer to the consumer base. As Dyson was the major manufacturing company in Wiltshire, outside Swindon, this move created some controversy as trade unionists claimed that the move would impact the local economy hard.[28]

In the following year, washing machine production was also moved to Malaysia.[29] The move was driven by production costs in Malaysia which are lower by 30% compared with the UK, however it created a loss of 65 jobs.[30]

In 2004, the Meiban-Dyson Laundry Manufacturing Plant was launched in Johor, Malaysia. The newly opened RM 10 million (approx. $2.63 million) plant is a joint venture between Dyson and the Singapore-based Meiban Group Ltd., which has manufacturing facilities in Singapore, Malaysia and China.[31]

Dyson stated that the cost savings from transferring production to Malaysia enabled investment in research & development at their Malmesbury head office.[32]

In 2007 Dyson formed a partnership with the Malaysian electronics manufacturer VS Industry Bhd (VSI) to take on a major role in Dyson's supply chain, from raw material sourcing and production to distribution. VSI also undertook an extensive production plan to supply finished product to Dyson's destination markets around the globe (America, UK, Japan, etc.).[33]

While it is often mentioned that Dyson has nearly 4,000 employees,[34] Dyson has not publicly stated where those employees are actually located, however, it is known that VS Industry Bhd (VSI) currently has around 4,250 employees at their Malaysian facility which manufactures Dyson products,[35] and in 2007 it was reported that Dyson alone was responsible for 80% of VS Industry Bhd (VSI) revenue.[36]
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[quote=rkk01 ]Why would anyone take notice of Dyson?

You could say the same about 90% of the other people on that list though.

I mean why should I care that the President of ****stan, the NUS or Hulk Hogan are Remainians?

Utterly brilliant Guardian correspondents dispatch from the the Labour heartlands:

My point being that Dyson is not a major UK employer. Yes, very supportive of R&D and has innovative products...

But manufacturing jobs are all offshore in lower wage economies - claimed to be to serve the Pacific markets and allow UK R&D investment(both fair enough).

But what about the UK economy??? Jobs for UK workers?

The biggest problem is that no one really knows anything, for sure. BY remaining in the Eu we have no guarantees about what the future will look like or what future demands will be, or what rebates we will get. The outers don't really know anything for sure either because it's all a bit unknown. The politicians seem incapable of actually disussing the realities or lookinbg at what the real issues might be. Not entirely sure I would trust all these so called business leaders or CEOs as, for the most part, I suspect their primary motivator is what will keep their company most profitable and this keep them in the money - and not whether it is the best thing for the country as a whole. I have found the whole debate pretty dispiriting really and it has done nothing to show politics in this country in a good light.

Personally, I would rather be out. I accept that this may cause us some financial pain as a country for a while. However, my main reason for wanting out is that I do not trust the EU as a political entity and what their longer term, as yet unspoken, aims might be. It's a bit of a nonsense for inners to say that we are best being inside so that we can drive reform because, let's face it, we haven't really done a whole lot of that so far. So what will prompt us to suddenly change and begin to drive for reform? I am not anti European. I think we are pretty privileged to live in this part of the world and we have a continent of neighbours who have fascinating and diverse histories, cultures, languages, customs and landscapes. I would prefer it that we stuck with the original aim of being more relaxed about trading between ourselves. I am not agianst immigration either as I think it is a good thing. We have a long hostory of welcoming people to these shores but we also have to face the fact that we cannot support or sustain the potential for a large influx of Europeans. This referendum feels like the last chance we have, as a country, to say we are not happy with the way things are going and give ourselves the option to get out before it becomes impossible to. Again, there is a sense that the EU is a slow and steady march to tighter integration to absorb and consume all of the European nations into a single conglomeration that isn't, I feel, in the interests of any of us except perhaps the politicians and apparatchiks at the very centre of this project. And when these sorts of people are lined up at the feeding trough it is almost always bad news for us, the little people.

I do appreciate that leaving will have consequences and there will be a whole raft of little things that may, in the short term, look like colossal losses, but taking the long term view of steeping out of it I feel is the right thing for this country.

Utterly brilliant Guardian correspondents dispatch from the the Labour heartlands:

Ninfan. [b]Hats off, that is an outstanding find[/b]. 9/10 for Leave in a Labour heartland. That final sentence says it all to about Labour too, they've lost touch with their voters.

That's a must watch for everyone here. Kmbers feel free to take that list of global political oranisations who supprt another refgional political organisation o Stoke on Trent and see how you get on.

@Edukator I'd call 55/45 highly Euroskeptic from a country supposedly at the heart of Europe and the €, in fact it was those numbers I was usng to justify my statement. Marine LePenn is going to eliminate Hollande from the Presidential ballot in 2017 and she's going to do it on a euroskeptic platfom.

Not entirely sure I would trust all these so called business leaders or CEOs as, for the most part, I suspect their primary motivator is what will keep their company most profitable

Yes - but that profitability is what keeps their employees (UK Joe Public) in jobs...

Again, there is a sense that the EU is a slow and steady march to tighter integration to absorb and consume all of the European nations into a single conglomeration

I'm not sure that this is really the case... 5-10 years ago perhaps, and amongst the core Franco-German membership. UK isn't the only non-Eurozone country by a long way... the Scandinavians are going to sit there quietly getting on with their own take on EU membership, just as we have.

In some ways the accession of the eastern countries has also made a single European state much less likely. Tensions with Russia along the Eastern border would be come intolerable (to the Russians) long before there was a USoE.

As I said, perhaps a political dream of the core members, but surely a very unlikely outcome irrespective of UK decision

Jamba, what praises do you have of the EU?

Sorry just seen this, given I am in such a positive mood after watching the video ninfan posted I most definitely owe you a reply

Freetrade agreement - definitely number 1 (this could and should exist totally indepedent of EU membership & freedom of movement of people and should do so without any budgetary contributions OR better yet all cross border trade should be taxed/dutied say 0.5%-1% and that is the budget)

Euro "NHS" card

Photo driving licences

European Arrest Warrant/Extradition treaty

Thats about it, other stuff like clean beaches we could do anyway, car emissions have been a vested interest disaster to conteract any good done elsewhere wrt enviironment

I am in such a positive mood after watching the video ninfan posted

You're in a positive mood after seeing a parade of ignorant people making a self-defeating decision out of desperation? What a nice guy you are!

You're in a positive mood after seeing a parade of ignorant people making a self-defeating decision out of desperation? What a nice guy you are!

Why the need to sneer at those people DrJ?

Why the need to sneer at those people DrJ?

What do you perceive as "sneering" ?

cinnamon_girl - Member
Why the need to sneer at those people DrJ?

mmmhhhmmmm!

(one hand on hip while the other hand with one finger pointing wagging no no )

You go girl!

(speaking with head movement side way)

😆

other stuff like clean beaches we could do anyway

This is the huge one for me - WOULD WE?

The EU seems to come out with far more environmental legislation than our government. It's as if they feel more comfortable imposing restraints on pollution than any domestic party.

What do you perceive as "sneering" ?

DrJ - you referred to them as ignorant.

You go girl!

chewkw - 😆

I think the good Dr was being harsh - as Brexiters go, they appeared among the more thoughtful and informed.

I loved The taxi drivers defiance. But my fave bit was at 8:16

DrJ - you referred to them as ignorant.

Aah, I see. Perhaps you are ignorant as to the meaning of the word "ignorant"?

Have mostly avoided this thread as it's brought out the worst in some Forumites. It's not been a genuine debate and some of the dialogue has been unpleasant. Will leave it there.

as Brexiters go, they appeared among the more thoughtful and informed.

I think that comes under the heading of "damning with faint praise" 🙂

DrJ - Member

DrJ - you referred to them as ignorant.

Aah, I see. Perhaps you are ignorant as to the meaning of the word "ignorant"?

Ooooo! ... DrJ does not like that. 😆

DrJ does not like to be called ignorant. 😆

or a joke? 😉

An out vote will send the Tories further to the right and will split the Labour party.

The Tories current position of being "centre" right will change, they will become just plain right-wing, as their right wing has won the referendum - with little EU red tape to hold them back and another 4 years in office who knows the extent of the "shift to the right" where the Tories could go.

In the short term the labour party are finished. In the longer term a need will arise for a credible centre-left party to counter an increasingly right wing Tory party.

At the last election that was Labour's problem - the Tories had claimed the centre ground leaving Labour floundering.

An out vote will change domestic politics significantly. Labour are already teetering on the brink of a split, the consequences of an out-vote will make this a certainty.

An out vote could mean 4 years of a very right wing Tory party, and unless Labour gets its act together no one to occupy the centre (left) ground.

A "remain" vote means that the "centre" will be taken by the Tories. Labour will consigned to a plaything of Corbyn. A sort of student politics from a party that well knows they will never get in to power.

ninfan - Member
Utterly brilliant Guardian correspondents dispatch from the the Labour heartlands:

I say we put stoke up for a collective Mensa membership! Who could argue with the logic that we should vote out because British politicians do heehaw for their community! Jeenyis! Bloody immigrants! 😆

teamhurtmore - Member

or a joke?

That DrJ does not want to be ignorant ... 😆

mawdesleytractor - Member

An out vote will send the Tories further to the right and will split the Labour party.

The Tories current position of being "centre" right will change, they will become just plain right-wing, as their right wing has won the referendum - with little EU red tape to hold them back and another 4 years in office who knows the extent of the "shift to the right" where the Tories could go.

In the short term the labour party are finished. In the longer term a need will arise for a credible centre-left party to counter an increasingly right wing Tory party.

You worry to much. They are politicians they are ALL the same!

Nothing has been won yet ...

Labour still have Kinnock junior ... think this bloke is slowly inching towards the front bench. The Kinnock dynasty is so rich they make a mockery of Welsh people ... what you say? Welsh lamb taste good?

I say we put stoke up for a collective Mensa membership!

Who for? The Labour Party strategists who are now so far removed from their core electorate that they might as well be warning them of Champagne shortages if we vote out 😆

You're in a positive mood after seeing a parade of ignorant people making a self-defeating decision out of desperation? What a nice guy you are!

DrJ cinnamon_girl hit the nail on the head with her response. We live in a democracy, we all get the same vote - 1. People may cast that vote as they see fit based on whatever information they choose to assimilate. You don't get 3 votes for a PhD and me 2 for an MSc. As as for self-defeating IMO they are voting quite correctly for what is in their and the countries best interests and that's a vote to Leave.

The Labour Party made up one of their campaign mugs before the 2015 GE with the world [b]Immigration[/b], elements of the party lead by Diane Abbot crushed it - "its not who we are". The Labour party's problem is that it is not listening to its voters, which frankly doesn't surprise me as the left wing is all about central control in the name of "the people".

STW's most consistently left wing poster is voting Leave, this is not an issue divided on party political grounds

this is not an issue divided on party political grounds

True for traditional party voters. However you could group UKIP and disillusioned traditional party voters on one side, and continuity traditional voters on the other side.

We live in a democracy, we all get the same vote - 1. People may cast that vote as they see fit based on whatever information they choose to assimilate.

Quite so, but all choices are not equal. A person can spend all their dole money on extra strength cider if they wish, but that is not a good choice either. As for self-defeating - we will see. You can afford to be wrong - you are well enough off to absorb the loss if you are wrong. These people cannot, and they are being sold a lie. You are playing fast and loose with other people's lives.

You don't get 3 votes for a PhD and me 2 for an MSc.

What about if I write page after page of 'City Speak' with a various statistics and facts thrown in, thus proving how clever I am....Surely that's worth at least two votes? 😯

My question is.
If the vote does go to leave, then nothing fundamentally changes in terms of wages etc what will the brexiters blame it on next?

What makes you thnk they'll give a sht? Boris will be PM and that's all that counts. The rest will be just collateral damage.

The democratic thing isn't quite right in this election. British citizens who have made the most of EU freedom of movement and haven't been resident in the UK for more than 15 years can't vote. The very people who stand to lose the most if the UK pulls out can't vote to stay in. I'm dual nationality so will be less impacted than most but still feel a little frustrated that I can't vote. I can't find any statistics on how many EU expats can't vote because of the 15 year rule but there are enough to swing a close vote:

[img] ?w=736[/img]

I can vote in French elections wherever I live for however long.

Boris will be PM

You'll never catch me voting for the lying feker..

Surely that's worth at least two votes?

Is that like an Arsenal goal being worth double because they pass it around so much first ?

Edukator, I like that part of the French system. IMO Brits living abroad should be able to vote for "ex-pat" MPs too.

DrJ you see I think vote Leave is good for the less well off as I am not of the view that the Tories are out to screw them at every turn. I think free movement hurts the less well off very badly indeed. The reason I posted that I think Remain is the best for me financially in the short term as I think it will lead to further house price rises and falls in basic labour costs.

You'll never catch me voting for the lying feker..

A very shy Tory indeed then 😉

As you can see from the Guardian video a number of Brexiters don't want to say so as they are afraid of being labelled (a racist etc)

Jamba. In what way will falling labour costs help those at the bottom then? Or do you just not care about them?

People may cast that vote as they see fit based on whatever information they choose to assimilate.

The Labour party's problem is that it is not listening to its voters,

STW's most consistently left wing poster is voting Leave,

The very people who stand to lose the most if the UK pulls out can't vote to stay in.

A very shy Tory indeed then

FYI I've voted for all 3 main parties over the years - back when the Lib Dems were a party that is!

Well the vote might deny him the right to work in most of Europe like anyone else with a British passport.