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Ps cancelled my Sky when Lucy left

Good work on the Lucy pic Flan..... Certainly perked me up!

Ps cancelled my Sky when Lucy left

I'm in Wales and voted in - the phrase 'cutting off nose to spite face springs' to mind springs to mind in respect of those here who voted to leave.

The hottest weather girl on TV.

(Caution: bit sweary)

Thanks for the pretty girl picture Flanje...that's really making me feel less worried about a likely Loony Right Government cutting services, dismantling the NHS...not to mention ten years of economic chaos, Frankfurt replacing the City of London as the economic gateway to the world's largest market....oh, cutting taxes for the rich, that'll be handy..

Interesting quote - Nigel doesn't think a 52-48 finishes it.

Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.

The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.

Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

Goose and gander?

Come on Nige', you good old man of the people, stand by your convictions and campaign for a second referendum.

[quote=dickyhepburn ]Euro President saying it has to go quickly for stability, got a feeling they'll push that to make it unpleasant to put off Fr-exit, N-exit etc.

In a way he's right - but it's not our stability he's worried about, or even the stability of the economies of the other EU members, simply the stability of his beloved project. I suggest we refer him to Pressdram vs Arkell if he think's he's going to force us into leaving sooner than we want - ironically his attitude to this shows that we do still hold a significant amount of power.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePG6zUYvUZg

Aracer - we always did hold significant power. Bizarrely, long term we've probably given up power, as we become a football for larger economies to kick around.

Thanks for the pretty girl picture Flanje...that's really making me feel less worried about a likely Loony Right Government cutting services, dismantling the NHS...not to mention ten years of economic chaos, Frankfurt replacing the City of London as the economic gateway to the world's largest market....oh, cutting taxes for the rich, that'll be hand

While the negotiations are going to be hard on us. The big realism thing they will have to face is that if the knacker the uk economy as a result it will most likely take out the eu too.
I just hope that the negotiations are sensible rather than being made an example of.
That's the fervent hope of a massively disappointed remain voter

Well I spent all day angry, really surprised myself. I've since had a few drinks and lapsed into "**** it dude let's go bowling". I suspect when I wake up tomorrow I will be livid all over again. this cycle may take some time to subside.

I just hope that the negotiations are sensible rather than being made an example of.

flanagaj - Eso es muy bueno - start a weather-girl party and I'll vote for you

I've since had a few drinks and lapsed into "**** it [list]That's the spirit. Glad I'm not alone. Tomorrow's another day, albeit with a groggy head 🙁

 

Immigration seemed to be Leave’s trump card. Why didn’t Remain tackle it head on and explain to people who had genuine [to them], but perhaps misplaced, concerns, that it wasn’t the cause of their issues.
Just seen a couple of people on the news with stories of how they couldn’t get a house, while immigrants got one. Why didn’t the campaigners/local MP’s address these issues in a big and repetitive way. Get the right message across.
All I heard when anyone raised immigration as an issue on Question Time and the like, was the daft line that the NHS can’t manage without immigrants – I didn’t hear anyone saying stop all doctors and nurses coming from overseas.
People, who might have been ‘less educated’ or old, were just called racist, bigoted, ignorant, etc..
We have reaped what we’ve sown

This is a very valid point. The language used by Remain supporters towards Leave hardly did anything to engage them and give a chance to discuss did it? Call someone racist, a bigot, a knuckledragger, retarded or any number of other insults I saw banded around, and you can't then complain you've polarised them against you.

As I recall (and someone will correct me I'm sure) exports to the UK is 5% of the rest of Europe's economy, while exports to Europe is 15% of ours. I wonder where the power in the exit negotiations is going to be?

Of course if the percentages are wildly different, then the answer will be too.

start a weather-girl party and I'll vote for you

I need to have a think about my manifesto first

Then when you win just say, "that was probably a mistake" or "we never said how many weather girls, you're not three years old". Could always go for, "No need to rush into this weather girl thing. You'll still have a great relationship with your wife, just a bit different. Maybe".

"No need to rush into this weather girl thing. You'll still have a great relationship with your wife, just a bit different. Maybe".

The scale of the re-negotitions are mind boggling

In my area of science we got about 10bn from the EU
Our institute thats 1 in 5 staff's salaries
some institutes like the EBI in cambridge are almost entirely EU funded
When Switzerland pulled out of Schengen the government stepped in to replace most of what they lost, as well as covering the cost of the Erasmus exchange programme, >25million for that (can we see our uber-rightwing new government doing that?)
Life sciences also includes 5,000 companies employing 200,000 people in the UK, generating an annual turnover of £60bn, all fed into from the universities and institutes now hobbled by the EU no-mans land we are in.
Every year, UK universities generate over £73 billion - £3.7bn of which is generated by students from EU countries, supporting 380,000 jobs

What is really really hard to gauge is the effect it will have on collaborative work, it is an absolute lynchpin of science and one of the reasons that we are £ for £ the most prolific scientific research producing country in the world, if we are shut out, as switzerland have been, we will be stuffed.
Today there were a lot of skype meetings going on between department heads with their collaborators accross Europe

What scares me is that whoever does the negotiations on this better know what the **** they are doing
THe Genomics England Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genomics_England is a case in point- Illumina were able to convince Jeremy Hunt & David 2 Brains Willets to use their preferred technology to sequence 100,000 human genomes, by the time that some proper scientists were involved it was too late to explain that using different techniques it could have been the 1000000 genomes project for the same price.
Science will have to lobby furiously to make sure that our voice is heard

Anyway this is just one aspect of our relationship with the EU, we need to figure out where it will go, 2 years doesnt seem very long to make this all work as for, immigration, security, finance, ......

As I recall (and someone will correct me I'm sure) exports to the UK is 5% of the rest of Europe's economy, while exports to Europe is 15% of ours. I wonder where the power in the exit negotiations is going to be?

IGM - Aren't 5% of 27 countries combined exports likely to be worth more than 15% of the UK's?

You sound like some of my EFL students, igm. It's fifty% not fifteeeeen%.

I don't really see what other options people have

I at least will hopefully have the option of correcting my error from two years ago and voting Yes in the next Scottish Indy Referendum: Waiving goodbye to my "I ****in haate foreigners" chums all too prevalent on the other side of Hadrian's wall

+1

The sooner we're away from them the better. I feel sorry for the decent half down south being left to deal with it

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153808771252861&id=585627860&notif_t=like&notif_id=1466804004521731&ref=m_notif

Sootyandjim - yes in absolute terms, but it's 5% of the total of the 27 countries which is probably more what matters really. Each country will sit there thinking this is worth 5% to me and I'm not going to lose the whole of that 5%. We're looking at losing 15% - though equally we won't lose all of it

Edukator - I thought it was 50-60% of UK exports not the UK economy. Could be wrong.

Cchris2lou - broken link?

Evan Davis almost apoplectic win Hannan over freedom of movement on Newsnight.

After the NHS BS earlier.

The lies are more brutally exposed now.

I at least will hopefully have the option of correcting my error from two years ago and voting Yes in the next Scottish Indy Referendum: Waiving goodbye to my "I ****in haate foreigners" chums all too prevalent on the other side of Hadrian's wall.

Quite right. If I were you, I'd tell us to go screw ourselves as well.

interesting discussion there on the scottish view point bewtween ming campbell, tom devine and henry mcleish there on stv, essentially saying chill out a bit. most interesting, henry mcleish saying he's going to give serious consideration to joining the independence movement.

Unsurprisingly the French at Calais are suggesting border controls could be moved to the UK's side of the Chanel.

That'll please a certain faction of the leave vote.

That's good we could take control of them #fakecontrol

igm - Member
Unsurprisingly the French at Calais are suggesting border controls could be moved to the UK's side of the Chanel.

That'll please a certain faction of the leave vote.

someones not thought this through!

The sooner we're away from them the better. I feel sorry for the decent half down south being left to deal with it

I thank-you, it's rare that we are ever described as the decent half.

Last time around I thought the Scot's were crazy for wanting to pull away but after today I realise I was wrong and wish you all the best.

Well, it's been an interesting day. Customers who were firm No voters in Indyref#1 are now hopping mad and definitely up for a Yes vote in Indyref#2. One's a minister, who used some very un-religious language about Cameron, Farage et al. And a phone call from an elderly woman in England about recumbent trikes, which also veered into how she wanted to move to Scotland now.

seosamh77 - yep, it's a real no sit Sherlock moment for that fraternity. But they probably won't realise for some time yet.

seosamh77 - Member
interesting discussion there on the scottish view point bewtween ming campbell, tom devine and henry mcleish there on stv, essentially saying chill out a bit. most interesting, henry mcleish saying he's going to give serious consideration to joining the independence movement.

I wish I had seen that. Having been a passionate believer in both unions, but sadly that is not to be. I said on another thread I can understand the calls for a referendum on Scottish independence, it is now not possible to be in both unions which greatly saddens me. If I have to choose between one or the other, I would like the dust to settle on this to truly see which is the best path forward.

The UK is not apparently what I believed it to be, however also one of the largest economies leaving the EU will have a detrimental effect on the EU.

I want to make sure that Scotland does not turn up at the Euros after everyone has gone home.

@chickenman & boardinbob: I was absolutely dead set against a Scottish independence vote as I would have been ashamed to have seen the dismantlement of the U.K. in my life time. However, I am now utterly utterly ashamed of the government's behaviour as well as 52% of the population's gullibility and short sighted xenophobic vote; I wish you well. Just do me a favour and if you get to stay in Europe, please remind them every now and again that not every Brit stuck two fingers up at them yesterday.

One thing I find almost unbelievable is how Cameron learned absolutely nothing about how to conduct a positive campaign. He got away with a negative campaign once, however the negativity surrounding this vote reached a new low.

I want to make sure that Scotland does not turn up at the Euros after everyone has gone home.

I'm more of a rugby man, but as I understand it, they won't be turning up at any point in the proceedings.

So those for iScotland now, are you happy to take the Euro then?

I'm getting over it.

Pass the popcorn, I'm hoping the soap opera gets really juicy.

One thing that I do quite like about Cameron's decision making is to come out and say he's going, which he had to do, but in three months time, which he didn't. Reading between the lines of what he said, he's not going to be the one to invoke Article 50, that'll be a matter for his successor. And if a week is a long time in politics, then three months is at least a bit of breathing space for everyone involved to let the hysteria pass and have a bit of a think of how to sort it all out. Maybe.

athgray, fair play to ye fella.

http://player.stv.tv/episode/3avo/scotland-tonight/scotland-tonight/

fast forward to 17.40.

dragon - Member
So those for iScotland now, are you happy to take the Euro then?

fwiw, same as last time, I think the currency is irrelevant, its how you run the economy. The pound isn't looking a particularly good long term option. people will laugh at ye if you try that yin again.

dragon
What currency I use does not really bother me. A gripe I had first time around was the arrogant assumption that we would have a currency union with the UK because it was our pound.

That ambiguity was an achiles heel for the indy side imo. That has been taken away. It seems like we would use the Euro.
I personally have no problems with that.

The new achiles heel for indy may well be the current oil price. We will have to see.

Seosamh, I may on occasion seem rude, for that I apologise. I am fairly saddened right now. I am not saying I would vote indy, but have to now give it a fair crack of the whip. I would like to make a reasoned decision based on how this result pans out. I do not wish to rush into anything, however if I am considering a switch then it it may be a distinct possibility.

Assuming (most) people didn't vote against their own interests, then the folk who are going to have to 'make it work' in terms of foreign markets, funding etc. will by definition be those who voted to remain.

I don't mean this in any disparaging way, but it seems that the key demographic(s) behind the exit vote are far more likely to rely on jobs created by others.

You get to replace the oil price with a market of 450million people, the argument is shooty in next time, tbh next time it's not about having an argument, it's about presenting a proper case and preparing for government. i agree it was lacking last time. I doubt that will happen again. It's been getting worked on and I think there will be alot of people coming in that will add alot to that.

There is no certainty in the uk, that goes to the EU now, that's the known quantity.

If the uk wants to keep scotland they need to come up with a solution that allows scotland to exist in both the EU and the UK. If that's not possible tatty bye, their case is piss poor, it's 1000 times worse that the scottish out vote in 2014.

So those for iScotland now, are you happy to take the Euro then?

Yes, though I was happy to last time too. I think that was a miscalculation by Yes last time, should have just said that there's option 1,2,3 for the currency instead of trying to insist that option 1 would definitely happen.

I will add that I have absolutely no regrets in how I voted in both referendums. I did not vote in the scot ref to be a member of the EU. I voted to be in both.

Perhaps come a second indy ref swithering No/Remain voters are good to keep it honest.

I will add that I have absolutely no regrets in how I voted in both referendums. I did not vote in the scot ref to be a member of the EU. I voted to be in both.

I completely respect that - and if I had thought that Westminster was democratic enough, I'd probably have agreed with you in the first Indyref.

Athgray, everyone is always welcome to join in, there will be disagreements, but aye, I'd hope it's an internal scottish discussion and we all come to a fair consensus with a big majority. I've always said, after last time, I'd prefer a larger consensus rather than 50%+1.

I voted Yes in indyref and remain on Thursday. I am actually more gutted by the EU result that the indyref result. I think rushing into an indyref2 would be a mistake, we need to wait for things to settle down to we see what's what. I think we will only have one more chance to do this so best to make sure we do it right and convince a lot more people to get on board.

seosamh
Just watched the STV video. Thanks for the link, it was very informative.
I felt that Menzies Campbell was a bit out of synch with the public view with a bit of political point scoring. Interesting comments from Henry McLeish and Tom Devine. Caution has to be the watchword. I certainly want to know what I will be voting for. If Nicola Sturgeon shows a degree of patience she may well have my vote in an indy ref. Henry McLeish closely echoes the way I feel. I had a great deal of respect for him during the indy ref.

km79 +1

aye campbell was, its was particularly the 2 you mention that i ment had the better discussion, glad you picked that. by the sounds of sturgeon today i think she will play it smart.

I also voted Yes in the last indyref,and remain on Thursday. Now is time for cool heads. There is no nothing to be gained by rushing to another indyref within months,but there's a theory that it might be best to hold one within the period required for the UK to negotiate its exit from the EU, to capitalise on the uncertainty surrounding the future of the UK. I am not sure whether to do that or aim for later. I am now sure that there will be another indyref

Well listening to all the
Get over it and get on posts here we go...

Based on the scant info so far (mostly the winning side looking slightly scared and back tracking) one of the key themes mentioned was the need to unpick all of that nasty EU Law that is killing the UK. So First off the block Make sure that your MP isn't going to just rubber stamp getting rid of stuff they don't like.
A process where all laws being removed as EU should be replaced with an identical UK one unless it's fully debated.

Lobby that the exit negotiating team are cross party.

Push for a bill that means the next elected official making unsubstantiated claims be strung up in the tower for a month.

Appoint an independent body to scrutinise the process of exiting and to report to the UK public honestly and quickly.

mikewsmith
'locking the gate after the horse has already bolted' springs to mind.

Not sure how much traction stringing lying polititions in the tower will have.

[quote=thegreatape ]One thing that I do quite like about Cameron's decision making is to come out and say he's going, which he had to do, but in three months time, which he didn't. Reading between the lines of what he said, he's not going to be the one to invoke Article 50, that'll be a matter for his successor. And if a week is a long time in politics, then three months is at least a bit of breathing space for everyone involved to let the hysteria pass and have a bit of a think of how to sort it all out. Maybe.

It's certainly an interesting play when you consider the implications. It would have been very difficult for him to stay on and say we're not going to invoke article 50 for 3 months - and failing to comment at all on the timetable would have been horrendous in terms of uncertainty. So the only possible way for him to create a significant delay was to fall on his sword - it looks like him being chicken, but whilst Juncker and his mates might get upset at the delay before anything happening there's little they can do about it. Maybe it is a last throw of the dice - because a lot can change in 3 months, not least that a lot of the Leave voters will have been on their holibobs and found everything more expensive.

The crucial thing here is that assuming BoJo is the heir apparent, then whilst he led the Leave campaign, the indications are that his preference would be to stay in and renegotiate. So it's just a question of whether Juncker and pals can be circumnavigated and those controlling their purse strings can be persuaded of the merits of keeping us in.

Whatever everybody is saying right now, this referendum still isn't binding and nobody has yet initiated the process of leaving the EU.

mikewsmith
'locking the gate after the horse has already bolted' springs to mind.

Not sure how much traction stringing lying polititions in the tower will have.

It was mostly a response to the leave get over it and get on bunch who have just moved from TAKE BACK CONTROL to GET OVER IT whenever they get asked a (was going to say tough) question.

GrahamS - Member
By doing what? What have you done today to embrace the challenges?

I've hugged my foreign friends and told them that it will be alright. 🙁

kimbers - Member

The scale of the re-negotiations are mind boggling

In my area of science we got about 10bn from the EU

Over what timescale?
Just that £10,000,000,000 is more than we get back each year and I'd like to keep it factual.

I'd like to keep it factual.

mikewsmith - Member

I must remember to wear my knee & elbow pads along with a helmet when reading these threads, just fell off my chair laughing again

Sorry Mike, I'm off to bed. Didn't realise you had time to be a colossal bell end.
Or have you time to finally answer the questions I put to you earlier on in the week?

Didn't think so.

😀

Cheers I was just catching up with the fall out. Not much changed has it.

Get over it and start to embrace the challenges that lay ahead.

How about [u]you[/u] embrace the challenges [u]you[/u] created for the rest of us.

Good to see that even though you voted to leave, it's still everyone else's fault. FFS

OR maybe just give it time and a decent leadership will prevail

Now that is the blindest optimism in the entire thread.

The crucial thing here is that assuming BoJo is the heir apparent, then whilst he led the Leave campaign, the indications are that his preference would be to stay in and renegotiate. So it's just a question of whether Juncker and pals can be circumnavigated and those controlling their purse strings can be persuaded of the merits of keeping us in.

It's no secret that his background is one of criticising the EU, and he is clearly a very ambitious man, but one thing he is not is stupid. My gut feeling is that he saw this as a chance to go head to head with Cameron, to garner support from half (as it turns out slightly more than half) of the UK, and perhaps what he really wanted was to be the courageous and gutsy freedom fighter but not quite win - a sort of 21st century English William Wallace. When you look at the voting demographics, you've got a majority of people in traditional labour heartlands (excluding of course my far wiser adopted countrymen up here 🙂 ) backing the ultimate toff, and that is no mean feat. So it wouldn't surprise me at all if Boris's real goal was to use the EU referendum to become the Tory big hitter that everyone across the UK loved, with an eye on taking the top job in 2018/19/29 when Cameron stood down, but that he didn't really expect, or want, to win this referendum. He's now faced with the prospect of presiding over 2-3 years of disaster for the UK (I'm not saying it will be a disaster, but it's a possibility) and, if Labour get their house in order, leading the Tories into another decade on the opposition benches in 2020. That will not sit well with his lifetime ambitions, and as I said, whatever else he is, he is not stupid. Obviously he can't simply turn round and say 'Er, I've changed my mind, this is not such a great idea', but what he is quite capable of over time, with the cooperation of the EU (not withstanding Juncker's public attitude, but he's got a political game to play too), many in his party and most of Labour, is fudging the whole thing and keeping us in the EU if he wants to. I don't know, but if it works out like that it wouldn't surprise me.

To lighten the mood...

( Gives tentative wave to Atgray) I voted leave and stay in the Indy and euro refs. I think it is time for us to look after our own countries interests,(and I am sure somebody can point out that Scotland is still part of Britain.) Nonetheless I think we just need to see if we have the energy to go through it all again,it was hideously divisive and it is still emotive.(waves again) I also think we at least need to know what is going to happen with what's left of the oil industry,and as said by ss77 above,it would be really,really stupid for the next remain campaign to try to hit us with the project fear again. I personally would like to see the dust settle, however I also think we need to put ourselves first ( sorry England) Just for clarification,that's England...Welsh made their own ****ing bed.

If the EU does look at itself and then implement some reforms, as some comments seem to indicate that it now might, then it would be a bit silly on its part to let the UK go if it reforms to address some of the issues that caused us to go.

So if it really were thinking of reforms then it would be sensible to want a delay in our article 50 submission.

But I don't think it will.

Everyone keeps talking as though the EU is perfect - the reasons for the leave vote may have been wrong but there were still reasons to want to leave that neoliberal organisation - and particularly if you have left wing views as their goals are so capitalist/globalist.

It still seems to me, maybe more so, that most remainers are only thinking of themselves and not of principles, as why would those neoliberal viewpoints appeal so much on here when it seems this forum is predominantly left-wing in views.

I would have thought that they would be rejoicing in the future possibility of a labour government and more concentration on workers rights, etc.

Or is all that youth unemployment in the poorer EU countries a good thing ?

Everyone keeps talking as though the EU is perfect - the reasons for the leave vote may have been wrong but there were still reasons to want to leave that neoliberal organisation - and particularly if you have left wing views as their goals are so capitalist/globalist.

Or is it, something different all together???

Re Scotland

1, negative campaigning was perceived to have worked, hence they repeated the trick but lost this time.
2. Of course the currency mattered, that was the DO's "immigration" albeit it with a factual underpinning
3. The economic case, or lack of it, has been exposed so a much better argument would be required
4. Despite dear Nicola's comments last night - which I have some sympathy with - its not her decision - odd I know
5. The Europeans are pissed off enough about the UK, the idea of negotiating with a smaller bit of it (sorry but true) is probably not going to be high on their wish list.

Other than that, carry on.....we need another topic for a marathon thread....

most of what people were annoyed about could have been fixed while still being a member.

it looked pretty clear that this was not the case at all, the only thing that would force change was the kind of revolution that we have now.

come on some examples TurnerGuy....

'locking the gate after the horse has already bolted' springs to mind.'