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Partly correct. It certainly makes more sense, BUT it still does not satisfy the minimum criteria for a successful currency area - plus the Germans hate fiscal transfers to poorer nations!! "Why don't you all run surpluses..are you fools?!?"
I guess mass youth unemployment and wage deflations could be sun as a hiccup, but its a might big one. Call the Guinness Book of Records....
doesn't need to make the minimum requirements, a european superstate will dominate the uk, and eventually swallow it up.
Well thats another thing we can 100% rule out!! 😀
a european superstate will dominate the uk, and eventually swallow it up.
So that happens regardless of what the UK does? Will the UK leaving actually help the rest get their quicker - leaving the UK as the poor one left out on it's own.
seosamh77 - Member
doesn't need to make the minimum requirements, a european superstate will dominate the uk, and eventually swallow it up.
Hence, it is much more urgent to bludgeon the EU snake in its head before it becomes a giant anaconda. The anaconda is raising it's head in Germany and France at the moment ...
Once BritLand has voted OUT (assuming that is the case) the domino effects start so no more EU anaconda superstate to swallow you whole! Ya, ya, you might say the giant bear (Russia) will pounce so that will be the testing time to find who the real grass state within.
Lifer trade tariffs (in the event of no EU free trade deal*) would be massively in our favour and would encourage us to by British, all good.
SO it would encourage the eu to buy from the EU which would not be good for us
No one here legally today is going to be "kicked out" in the event of Brexit, ditto Brits living in Europe. That status is protected by law.
Made up and total BS. The only thing of any interest is whether you know its a lie or you are so ill informed you think this is true.
* this is a certainty as they only way we can get free trade is to remain in the EU the only choice is whether as a full member of the eu or an ETA member with the same payments but less powers - neither of these options is actually leaving. If we leave we actually have to leave.
What will happen to the EU migrants who live here?
They won't be British citizens since being born here from '83 onwards doesn't give you British Citizenship or has that changed?
Some of them are low skilled or their kids are used to British lifestyles and don't speak other languages other than English.
What will happen to Brits living abroad?
Or we don't know?
What will happen to Brits living abroad?
They will have to pick a side in the inevitable [s]ww3[/s] European war that will engulf the continent.
we dont know - unless you are jamby and you just make things up.
We could kick them all out and the EU could kick all UK nationals out as free movement has gone and we are no longer EU citizens.
Some form of complicated reciprocal agreement negotiated with either the EU or each country is my best guess but we just dont know. No change is highly unlikely seeing as they have been happy to play the race card they will have to deploy it negotiations.
Also going to be hard if Polish mum and dad have British child with no Polish language kids.
what you asking me for? I'm just making up shit like everyone else. Come up with your own fantasies. 😉mikewsmith - Member
a european superstate will dominate the uk, and eventually swallow it up.So that happens regardless of what the UK does? Will the UK leaving actually help the rest get their quicker - leaving the UK as the poor one left out on it's own.
It won't be complicated. We'll sign up to freedom of movement, same as everyone else who has an altermative agreement with the EU.
It won't be complicated. We'll sign up to freedom of movement, same as everyone else who has an altermative agreement with the EU.
Many a true word, spoken in jest
We will probably manufacture goods to EU standards too (after all we want to trade there) and then we can saddle companies with multiple standards to adhere to.
And then services - our "control" regulations and the EU version
This is all become so clear. Why didn't anyone "make this up" before?
Not in jest at all. We're too integrated. Trying to untangle it all isn't possible. It will just be a rebranding exercise.
We'll sign up to freedom of movement, same as everyone else who has an altermative agreement with the EU.
Which means we'll have to pay the EU, like the EEA do?
Been back in the UK for 3 days now, have asked 8 friends/relatives how they are voting, all are Leave.
Currently staying in the Surrey/Hants border area so not sure if that indicative of any particular political learning bar it being a little blue in tint.
Also managed to take advantage of the extension to register to vote as I of course left it to the last minute to do this and of course couldn't do this as the site crashed on the last day.
Have another week here and will be spending more time in that London village next week for both work and social reasons, will be interesting to see where my own poll sits at the end, the vibe I'm getting is that leave is ahead and the main points of unhappiness are immigration (perceived lack of control) and accountability of the EU politicians.
Which means we'll have to pay the EU, like the EEA do?
My guess is we'd sign up to exactly the deal we have today and then negotiate on bits of it over time.
Starting from nothing and negotiating on everything doesn't seem plausible.
BritLand is a cash cow. Fact! 😛
1. Wealth concentrate in a "small" region.
2. Logistically efficient.
3. Technologically good and innovative.
4. Good economy mind - we are good at counting money.
5. Plenty of money spenders.
6. Liberal in thinking. Yes, we are ... Look > Naked people!
7. Easy market ... money! money!
Any company or organisation or multinational that forgo BritLand as a market does not make business sense coz they have poor knowledge of running a business.
Any of them forgo BritLand will suffer financially if they cannot find a similar market instantly.
If BritLand Vote OUT ... there will be temporarily adjustment so try not make it a big deal.
Life is about constant adjustment so try not to kid yourself that staying (voting remain) would give you more comfort.
There are many other multinationals and organisations that are also aiming or eyeing a piece of BritLand but simply cannot come in because their competitors are protected behind the EU rules. So no level playing ground.
Yes, some organisations might go but I can bet you someone will take their place fairly instantly.
It is time to break up EU coz it has run it cause of usefulness after such a long time and I ain't willing to wait for another 200 years for it to amalgamate. I would be dead by then. Carbon!
Rome ... ya right ... look at you now.
Then we are not leaving we are exchanging a seat at the top table with a veto to not at the table and still having to comply and pay. No one wants that as the outcome of "leaving", NO ONE.It won't be complicated. We'll sign up to freedom of movement, same as everyone else who has an altermative agreement with the EU.
Electoral suicide for anyone who negotiates that "exit".
No one wants that as the outcome of "leaving", NO ONE.
So? The least likely outcome is what fantasists want.
Which law would that be?
The one quoted by Gove the other day in responce to a question on the Sky interview/townhall. That's Michael Gove Lord Chancellor Chief of Justice. He quoted the exact piece of legislation, I'll let you watch the piece yourself.
I do hope you weren't troubling yourself too much with timing, I've been enjoying a very pleasant walk and guitar practice all much better than checking stw threads. Had to miss the campagn bbq today which is a pity as they are planning the final push, I'll fit in as required.
I really thought when the referendum was called it would be a longshot for Leave to win against the establishment, but today we have all the momentum and our supporters are definitely going to be taking the trouble to vote.
No one wants that as the outcome of "leaving", NO ONE.
You are as usual much mistaken about the Leave camp, in fact just plain wrong. I am absolutely comfortable with leaving and with no EU trade deal. If a trade deal required any payment into the EU budget, precidence ofnthe ECJ or freedom of movement we don't want it. Full stop. Leavers I speak to feel the same, freedom of movemnet is a deal breaker.
5thElefant - Member
No one wants that as the outcome of "leaving", NO ONE.
So? The least likely outcome is what fantasists want.
You lot are really thinking too much or worrying too much.
@molgrips we run a trade deficit, I see no reason for making a payment to the EU budget. None. Zero.
Using Gove as an appeal to authority would be seen as desperate if it was anyone but you. If nothing else you keep things amusing if a tad stale and predictable.
A leave vote doesn't necessarily mean that we will leave, it is not legaly binding...
[url= http://www.squareonelaw.com/announcements/eu-referendum-know-the-facts/#.V1nEnHdCQ8W.facebook ]EU Referendum: Know the facts: Square One Law guide lays out four possible legal outcomes of Brexit[/url]
@stewart, great news on the families voting intentions 🙂
I think internet registration will have to be changed. Give that a cutoff 1 week before postal and if site crashes at last minute no issue carry on with postal.
Jamba, ever heard the saying 'you have to spend money to make money'?
But I can't say I'm surprised tbh.
So yours are better? 😆squirrelking - Member
Using Gove as an appeal to authority would be seen as desperate if it was anyone but you. If nothing else you keep things amusing if a tad stale and predictable.
Okay, I don't mean to response to you in one short sharp sentence but your response has so many obvious "holes" I don't know where to start.
squirrelking - Member
Jamba, ever heard the saying 'you have to spend money to make money'?But I can't say I'm surprised tbh.
😆 Ya, but the problem is that you borrow more than you can get back! What sort of spending logic is that? Lefties? Ya, you need to invest but judging from the Lefties govt ... you have nil chance to earn back your investment. Absolutely diabolical.
Jamba
* Norway contributes €381 million (£294 million) to EU projects in areas like research; €400 million (£308 million) at the behest of the EU on grants to poorer EU nations; and 262 million Norwegian Krone (£21 million) on the upkeep of the institutions of the European Economic Area. These amounts add up to £623 million.
Times that by 13 to get an indication of what the uk would pay, for being out of europe. (funnily enough it equals £8.5 billion, or £150m per week 😆 you know the actual cost of the EU to the UK)
In or out is irrelevant, you are still part of it and paying your share. Why you want to give up a say for nothing is a mystery.
European integration is a juggernaut that isn't going to be stopped.
jambalaya - MemberThe one quoted by Gove the other day in responce to a question on the Sky interview/townhall. That's Michael Gove Lord Chancellor Chief of Justice. He quoted the exact piece of legislation, I'll let you watch the piece yourself.
Good one, I'm going to use this in future- "Someone else said it in a video some time, go and watch it". Nope. If you want to make claims, it's up to you to back it up.
Leave the EU, ban freedom of movement, how do you deal with those living in the EU and EU citizens living in the UK? do they have to get a permit to stay? how can they leave and return? How would you distinguish between legal residents and non legal residents. Does anyone think immigration can cope now let alone with the possible options.
A brazilian friend basically could not take holidays to the continent because of the paperwork and visa requirements even though they were legally resident in the UK.
Anyway, most of the problems in the UK are westminster, remove brussels and the UK is still shafted.
seosamh77 - Member
[b]Norway[/b] ...
[b]There first mistake for comparison.[/b]
Are you so desperate to have an example you use Norway to illustrate your point?
The population of 58 million in BritLand and you compare yourself to Norway?
C'mon! Industrial Revolution started in Norway?
You logic is absolutely diabolical (new word)!
Did someone just fart? 😆
we run a trade deficit, I see no reason for making a payment to the EU budget. None. Zero.
50% ish percent of our trade 5% ish of theirs
the reason you see none is because you are blinkered rather than there are none - you used trade deficit to distort the reality as per usual.
I've been enjoying a very pleasant walk and guitar practice all much better than checking stw threads.
you have been off line for two hours [then returned straight to this thread] I bet your legs hurt and your fingers are stinging now - did you walk and play to make the most of your time?
TWo hours off line and you mock others
seosamh77 - Member
Did someone just fart?
You did laddie.
You did. 😆
😉 😆
squirrelking - MemberJamba, ever heard the saying 'you have to spend money to make money'?
Are you aware that's exactly what the majority of members of the EU [i]don't[/i] have to do?
That is to say they are net beneficiaries, not net contributors.
Which shows that (1) you either haven't read what they wrote or (2) you have, but didn't understand it.You are arguing against a point that hasn't been made by HMT
No, I'm arguing a point made by George Osborne. Which shows that (1) you either haven't read what I wrote or (2) you have, but didn't understand it.
sorry makes no sense at all.
b r suggested a better analogy of £350 million/week to EU vs £114 billion/year lost from household income was to somehow turn those figures into drop in household income. My point was that the £350 million (£150 million) isn't paid directly from the household budget, nor could any calculated difference between [b]increases[/b] in GDP be directly equated with a [b]loss[/b] from the household budget, and so the "better analogy" doesn't really stand.
[url= http://voxeu.org/article/britain-s-eu-membership-new-insight-economic-history ]What was happening economically before 1973[/url]
Be careful what you wish for.
I am happy to concede if you find where here made the link to household income that you suggest. You may well be right, so happy to see it. If he did say that then he is wrong.
I am aware of poor (misleading) use of English but can't see the income bit.
Lost me again on the supplementary 😉
Anyway the analysis does not link to household income - thats enough for me.
My point was that the £350 million (£150 million) isn't paid directly from the household budget
The REAL point is that £350m isnt paid by ANYONE. Pity the BSers don't stop their BS instead of glorifying in it with the latest website incarnation.
Wood...trees....
It won't be complicated. We'll sign up to freedom of movement, same as everyone else who has an altermative agreement with the EU.
But what about our controooooooool ? 🙁
The one quoted by Gove the other day in responce to a question on the Sky interview/townhall. That's Michael Gove Lord Chancellor Chief of Justice. He quoted the exact piece of legislation, I'll let you watch the piece yourself.
Nope - he didn't. The question was from some old bat who asked about her holiday home in France. Gove said that nobody could take it from her according to some (unspecified) law. He didn't address the issue of the right to live in France, or the right to be free of higher property taxes levied by France, e.g. the current 49% tax on sale of property for non EU/EEA citizens.
The REAL point is that £350m isnt paid by ANYONE. Pity the BSers don't stop their BS instead of glorifying in it with the latest website incarnation.Wood...trees....
Totally agree, it does no-one any favours.
As for direct quotes, again I feel I'm going to get short shrift due to semantics, but a quick Google came up with this website in terms of explaining what I'm getting at:
[url= https://fullfact.org/europe/4300-question-would-leaving-eu-really-make-every-household-worse/ ]https://fullfact.org/europe/4300-question-would-leaving-eu-really-make-every-household-worse/[/url]
The image in this gov.uk webpage is what made me look in to it in the first place:
[url= https://www.gov.uk/government/news/eu-referendum-treasury-analysis-key-facts ]https://www.gov.uk/government/news/eu-referendum-treasury-analysis-key-facts[/url]
Osborne makes the claim in his introductory waffle on page 6 of the Treasury report that "families would be £4300 worse off", which is very different to what the Treasury actually say: GDP would increase by smaller a amount, equivalent to £4300 for every household. I don't like this metric, as it seems to have no use other than to imply a tangible amount to a family. It has as much meaning as expressing GDP as £xxxx for every Ford Focus or Chicken Farm or Public Toilet.
FWIW - and a genuine question, you may choose not to answer given how rude I was before - why does the report mention the increasing %age of GDP that is made up by total trade, but not that a decreasing portion of this %age that is made up of EU trade?
But what about our controooooooool ?
No doubt they'll spin it that we won't let any new members in.
Try and remember politicians promise what they think people want to hear and then do what is practical. Banning boom and bust isn't going to happen either.
I also agree that Osbourne's language is poor (possibly/probably 😉 deliberately so) in the intro. The text is clearer - it's GDP/per household ie a variation on GDP per capita. Osboune/Tories have form (we have halved the deficit) so lets agree on "probably".
Not sure on the second question, would need to re-read. If correct makes a bit of a mockery of the argument that EU membership inhibits our trade with RoW. But that was always Bllx anyway.
(tbf, my response on the last page was unnecessary robust too. Sorry: 15:15 😉 )