[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

theotherjonv - Member
May and the Tories are motivated to sign new deals before the next GE in 2023
2022, before we consign these **** to the dustbin of history. If not sooner.

Tick tock.

I really don't think they will last that long.

God,I hope not anyway...

THM - Liam or the will of the people? Read both as it happens.
Liam’s admitting to finding it all a bit difficult.
The people want another referendum (which they won’t get) though the upstanding remainer versus traitorous Brexy split is interesting.

That help?

So a mere 3 years of no trade deals, then those that are signed will be a hasty one. That does assume there isn't an election before then. Certainly looks like a leadership challenge will happen from the SEL's when May concedes another red line. That is before we start begging for a trade deal.

No, it doesn't.

See if you have get it right by the time of the early train 😉

Just because it don’t agree with your view of the world THM doesn’t mean it ain’t true.

Sorry and all. 😉

No need to apologise. It's just I expected an engineer to value precision and accuracy. My mistake 😉

We have put in place the mechanism to transfer all 60 EU “free trade deals” and we’ll be signing others tout de suite.

Jamba, it simply is not possible for any country to cut'n'paste an existing trade deal with the EU into one with the UK solely, even if they wanted to. They all need rewriting. Officials from all countries involved have said that when they are renegotiated, they will seek to rebalance based on accessing a much smaller market. You can be all bubbly and optimistic and expect that to not mean worse terms if you want to. The way that all the key countries are responding to our WTO proposals suggests otherwise though… they'll look to use our self imposed weak position to improve their own (as you'd expect).

Now, new deals, rather than watered down existing deals… which country will sign one with us before the EU? All the examples you have cited are countries that have said that an EU deal comes first… yes, even Trump's administration. So… waiting longer for deals, and getting worse deals… as you'd expect. The EU+EEA market matters far more to all trading partners.

We should seek EEA and CU involvement, to keep existing trade deals, and get new ones as soon as possible, and solve the Irish border issue, and give UK companies certainty as regards trade with all counties (not just EU ones), and keep supply chains moving, and…

…still means relinquishing lots of control though… but all options from here on in do that, as far as I can see.

Theresa May and the Irish government have failed to reach a deal on the crucial Brexit issue of the Northern Ireland border ahead of a crunch meeting on Monday lunchtime with the European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker.

Despite intense efforts over the weekend to agree a proposal on how to avoid a hard border in Ireland, Irish officials revealed at midnight on Sunday that “there is still a way to go” to achieve a meeting of minds on the issue.

So the Irish are not accepting a pixie dust and magic border

...Irish border to be patrolled by unicorns, don't forget the unicorns 😉

Its the end of the world as we know it.

I prefer to believe that Coveney is a man of his word. He was clear yesterday.

Let’s see what the lunch brings

border at the Irish sea and another bung for the DUP?

teamhurtmore - Member
No need to apologise. It's just I expected an engineer to value precision and accuracy. My mistake

Understood. You, like many people, are labouring under a misapprehension. Engineering is about close enough. Good engineers are the ones who know what “close enough” means. I may on occasion value precision and accuracy - but I also know its cost.

And imagine having worked out your inside the protection racket and pointing out how tough they make it for everyone else and then suggesting being on the wrong side of it.

Yep who'd have thunkd it.

DUP have rejected that Oldnpastit [url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/theresa-mays-other-hard-brexit-front/amp/ ]DUP insist NI leaves EU under the same conditions as the rest of the UK[/url]

What are they going to do about it?

If they stop supporting the Tories, and bring down the government, they'll get Jeremy Corbyn instead.

And anyway, is that a principle or a negotiating position?

If the dup don’t like it and they collapse the Tory government ,surely they will still be in the same position but with a strong labour government?
Can someone explain the border at sea bit please?

Still got till Wednesday really b4 the summit.

The brexies on here been very silent on Ireland, free trade fantasys all great, but it's about the affect on the lives of the million+ people immediately affected by a hard border, barely given a thought by the true believers.
Funnily enough as this was all their idea you'd think that they'd take some responsibility.

Standard Tory/ brexie incompetence meant that the NI white paper (the widely mocked pixie dust & unicorns one) was put out BEFORE the UK gov had done it's fact finding trip/impact assessment to NI so, sadly this last minute scramble was very predictable.

DUP & some Tories will bitterly oppose special deal for NI that aligns them more with EU than UK, so Davis & May & Tory whips going to be having more sleepless nights than Trump at this rate. ( Also sturgeon would flap wildly , as would Davidson)

But I remoane too much

Isn't last real chance infact 15th B4 EU summit?

We might see an Xmas miracle yet !

Can someone explain the border at sea bit please?

Clearly the DUP wont accept this as there is no one more British than the children of Protestant settlers we placed in ireland some 3 centuries ago- they wont be any less british than we are or have any barrier between us and NI.

Cannot happen and a Tory govt remain

Also a lot of hardline Tories won't accept a CU border round the whole of Eire, funnily enough they're also some hardcore Brexies.

So expect any and all blame to be heaped on the EU & Irish gov, rather than those who campaigned & voted for Brexit....

What do the eu want the border to be like?
Not so long ago certain people were howling for europe to be turned into a fortress.
What if the eu don't want a weak link in their border?

oldnpastit - Member

border at the Irish sea and[s] another bung for[/s] shaft the DUP

Junkyard - lazarus

NI in the EU via customs union or some such [ so no border in ireland]but GB not so the real border between us and the EU is in the Irish sea

Clearly the DUP wont accept this as there is no one more British than the children of Protestant settlers we placed in ireland some [b]3 centuries ago[/b]- they wont be any less british than we are or have any barrier between us and NI.

Four centuries ago, but yes, there's much truth to what you say. Putting up a hard border between NI and ROI (and the trouble that's sure to follow) would actually legitimize the DUP. Their entire culture and mindset is based on their Britishness and the suppression of Catholic/Irish/Nationalism.

Forcing taigs to go through British army checkpoints at gunpoint, having to state their name, address, where they are going, what they are doing or risk being strip searched and their car torn apart would suit them down to the ground. What could be more British.

Never mind all the billions in EU aid they're losing or 33% of their exports to ROI including 25% of their manufacturing 🙄

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/04/ireland-no-go-ahead-for-brexit-talks-to-move-on

Ireland playing hard ball. This is really going to piss off some Tories who see the republic as a dependency who should know their place.

Ireland playing hard ball.

Ah but is it Shinty or Hurling? 😉

..and yet, there are differences between NI and the rUK that are acceptable to the DUP. Like abortion.

What happens if EU refuse to move on and we crash out with no deal - won't that be the worst case situation for the border?

What if the eu want a hard border and ROI don’t?
Did anyone think of this before the vote?

Why would any brexiter care about what the EU and ROI wanted!

What if the eu want a hard border and ROI don’t?
Did anyone think of this before the vote?

I don't think anyone WANTS a hard border, WTO rules amongst others demand it.

It's a mess. A colossal SNAFU.

At the very least, we should have had a Public Inquiry last year after the referendum. Instead, what happened was a de-facto coup, with the Hard Right owning all the narratives. The goalposts shifted radically, the Brexit we're looking at now is wholly unrecognisable from that stated on the ballot paper in 2016.

What happens if EU refuse to move on and we crash out with no deal - won't that be the worst case situation for the border?

Don't think it makes any difference. WTO demands a border is in place, so UK leaves and HAS to establish a border with or without a deal. Plenty on both side in NI would seize the chance to go back 40 years without a thought.

UK either remains in CU to avoid border or erects border. or places the border outside the island of Ireland, which is pretty damn close to defacto reunification....

Wow:

[i]BREAKING: UK will concede that there will be no "regulatory divergence" on the island of Ireland on the single market and customs union, acc to a draft text seen by @rtenews[/i]

Wow:

BREAKING: UK will concede that there will be no "regulatory divergence" on the island of Ireland on the single market and customs union, acc to a draft text seen by @rtenews

So we are taking back control of.... nothing?

somewhere in prodestant heaven......

[img] [/img]

Crossing all my fingers that this really is as reported. The repercussions are likely to mean a "close" deal really can be achieved. Government will need (and probably get) support from Labour to get this through parliament though, plenty of "all of UK out of everything" Tories will be rabid.

and as seen on Twitter, when does Scotland ask for same treatment as NI as well? Whats good for one devolved region is obviously good for another...

I still can't figure why the daffy dups don't want a hard border.

mrmo - Member
and as seen on Twitter, when does Scotland ask for same treatment as NI as well?

when they are propping up a minority government ( which might be quite soon 😉 )

and as seen on Twitter, when does Scotland ask for same treatment as NI as well?

when they are propping up a minority government

Seems like more cloud-cuckoo-land thinking from the Brexies. You can't have one rule for Northern Ireland, and one for the rest of the UK, surely? Isn't the whole point of the single market and customs union that one rule applies to all? So it's all or nothing? You're either in or you're out?

I'm sure the Daily Heil, IDS, Farage and the rest of the fruitloops are getting themselves worked up into a foaming-at-the-mouth frenzy at this 'Betrayal!'

and a little off topic/back to yesterday
[img] ?w=1920&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=f6ce664fd4c56f4c728eaf7c26d91076[/img]

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/dec/04/theresa-may-heads-to-brussels-hoping-to-conclude-phase-one-of-brexit-talks-politics-live ]Looks like that's another one of Theresa's famous red lines that's bitten the du[/url]st then?

How long before Barnier has a full house of them?

End of the week?

Will this mean cheap bits from CRC?

Will this mean cheap bits from CRC?

Will wiggle still close the NI/CRC warehouse or relocate to it? going to play havoc with customs.