teamhurtmore - Member
So is every stage of progress going to be greeted with dismay?
you're right thm we should rejoice in the governments incompetence
We should be happy that a hard Brexit is becoming less likely - otherwise we would be living up to the remoaner tag!
Still some are still pretending that no progress was or even would be made! Not surprising that they have gone quiet....
Still hoping that the hardliners will now vote against the 50bn etc etc and end up destroying the whole process in the same way that the Freedom Caucus effectively sabotaged the GOP/Trump's Health Bill because it didn't go far enough, and ended up with nothing to show for it (so far).
Who's gone quiet?
Lots of headlines and media time being grabbed by Leavers saying we shouldn't do what needs doing (to achieve what they say they want), perhaps they are drowning out the "of course the UK needs to make these positive moves, why didn't we do so months ago" responses from others.
Still hoping the predictions of "red lines" becoming "pink lines" come true, but I doubt it without a new PM. Of course this one, wisely, has never made payments of any kind, at any point, for any reason, a red line.
Now what are the rumours as regards the border? I'm open to some good news this week…
Noise
The reality is progress is being made and we may even get on to proper negotiations soon. That’s what matters
The reality is progress is being made and we may even get on to proper negotiations soon. That’s what matters
Isn't "progress being made" the new "strong and stable"?
So the rumours of progress over the border issue are "noise", but you're complaining about people not responding positively to it?
Timewaster.
I'll come back to this thread again when people have room to discuss things, without your games.
No the crap from leavers is noise
But enjoy the break
Rhubarb.
Single word answers are rarely clear.
So, Leavers are "making noise", and Remoaners are "keeping quiet"…? I thought you've been keen for people who still think we should stay in the EU to keep quiet anyway? No sign that they are… and the people welcoming rumours about getting money issues out of the way have been mostly of that ilk… Ken Clarke's words in the house were noticeable yesterday, for a start.
Anyway… what are the rumours about the border…? All good news welcome.
The reality is progress is being made and we may even get on to proper negotiations soon.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/brexit-divorce-gives-northern-ireland-to-uk-in-week-and-eu-at-weekends-20171130140061 ]That'd be nice, wouldn't it?[/url]
If by progress being made you mean the UK government backing down on all fronts, then Yes you are right, great progress is happening.
I hope for the UK sake that trade talks won't be the same.
Are we now painting the agreement to 'honour our commitments' as 'progress'?
If it moves us to proper talks - yes very much so.
Welcome back kelvin 😉
The divorce bill was meant to be the easy part wasn't it?
I mean, really?? 🙁
I reckon trade talks will go a bit better now as the UK will be even more of a laughing stock if we do the old "they need us more than we need them" routine again.
Even if we do the EU will just point out a few realities to us again, let us have a tantrum, then cave in again.
teamhurtmore - Member
So is every stage of progress going to be greeted with dismay?
Well probably. By one of the three parties involved anyway.
I hope for the UK sake that trade talks won't be the same.
By 'trade talks' I presume you mean the EU telling us how it's going to be, followed by the phrase "take it or ****in' leave it!"?
At least that shouldn't take too long. Every cloud, eh?
Better than viewing it as new costs!!
At least we've got the Special Relationship to fall back on.....
Is it starting to dawn on people yet what an irrelevance the UK is on the world stage in a political sense?
No really
dannyhIs it starting to dawn on people yet what an irrelevance the UK is on the world stage in a political sense?
Regrettably yes.
Even worse is we will be increasingly irrelevant economically.
That was going to happen anyway but Brexit will speed it up.
And we thought leavers lived in la, la land 😉
UK economic relevance?
Well by GDP as I recall similar to India, a bit ahead of Brazil, dwarfed by the US, EU or China.
Don’t know if that helps.
igm - Member
UK economic relevance?Well by GDP as I recall similar to India, a bit ahead of Brazil, dwarfed by the US, EU or China.
Don’t know if that helps.
Sorry Igm, I have no idea if that comment was aimed at me and if so is supporting or denying what I mentioned? 🙂
Or are you simply saying that we are already an economic irrelevance?
Genuine questions above.
Let's face it, our overblown sense of self-importance got us in to this mess in the first place. A correction is long overdue.
Poops - not really aimed at anyone. I don’t think we’re irrelevant as such, but we aren’t one of the big three (or four if you think Japan makes the grade), and not being part of the EU I think we will lose influence in the world, not least because we will no longer have direct influence over the standards & policies of one of the big three.
Or are you simply saying that we are already an economic irrelevance?
irrelevance might be a bit strong, but basically is about right. remember the economic growth the brexiteers keep on about, and how that growth won't be in Europe...
Tallpaul - MemberLet's face it, our overblown sense of self-importance got us in to this mess in the first place. A correction is long overdue.
Posted 21 minutes ago #
This.
I deliberately said 'political' irrelevance above because we are totally irrelevant in that sphere. Trump slaps down May with impunity then Amber Rudd 😀 backtracks halfway in an obsequious attempt to get a bit back towards being chums with Donald. I'm not ashamed of being British, I find it shaming that we are forced to bow and scrape to the likes of Trump to keep up the pretence that we are relevant.
We are partly relevant in an economic sense - but that is largely preserved by being compliant and in thrall to multinationals who can and will walk away if we become in any way uncooperative - you know the type of thing - taxing them fairly, that sort of stuff.
IFS debunks the scare stories on hit to public finances noting that most of the bill was money the UK would be paying in if it had stayed in the EU
I thought the whole point of leaving was so we didn't have to pay the filthy Europeans any more of our beautiful pounds? Don't think the swivel eyed nut jobs will be happy that we're still giving money away?
igm - Member
Poops - not really aimed at anyone. I don’t think we’re irrelevant as such, but we aren’t one of the big three (or four if you think Japan makes the grade), and not being part of the EU I think we will lose influence in the world, not least because we will no longer have direct influence over the standards & policies of one of the big three.
Ah, thanks for explaining bud.
For what it's worth I totally agree.
teamhurtmore - Member
And we thought leavers lived in la, la land
Be gentle here as I only pop into this thread occasionally just to make sure I'm not the only one regarding Brexit and the whole process in astonishment. Lol
Are you for leaving the EU or remaining?
I'm not asking you to validate your opinion,I am honestly not sure as your comments are involved in numerous parallel topics within this thread.
I know you come in for some flak from a bit of shim reading yet I genuinely don't even know on which side of the debate you stand on?
No sarcasm intended at all in the above.
1. Remainer
2. Strongly pro 4 freedoms (and single market)
3. Strongly anti € for obvious reasons
4. Pro democracy (and respect for democratic process)
5. Believer in dealing with what is in front of you not what you wish was in front of you
6. Anti BS of both Brexshiteer and Remoaner kind
7 Mildly encouraged that progress is being made albeit at glacial pace
I’m with THM on the first four - and number 6 actually, though BS can be fun provided everyone knows it’s BS.
On 5, dealing with what’s in front of you includes changing it or holding your fire until it changes. And that doesn’t run counter to 4.
On 7, I think the progress is progress towards a bad deal, and a lack of progress leading to a deal so bad no one will countenance it might actually bring greater progress in the long term.
But then my risk aversion level is lower than many folk’s.
teamhurtmore - Member
1. Remainer
2. Strongly pro 4 freedoms (and single market)
3. Strongly anti € for obvious reasons
4. Pro democracy (and respect for democratic process)
5. Believer in dealing with what is in front of you not what you wish was in front of you
6. Anti BS of both Brexshiteer and Remoaner kind
7 Mildly encouragesd that progress is being made albeit at glacial pace
Cheers mate,
We agree on 3 out of the 7 then.
We could probably get married with that level of accord these days. 😉
Follows my a zwift divorce further down the line no doubt! Lol
IGM agree on the fun bit - we are missing the comedy turn at the moment!
Only 3?!?
What we need is a decent negotiator.
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looks like the DUP wants more from the Magic money tree....
Amusing that they want to be part of the union when most? English haven't a clue about NI.
mrmo - Member
looks like the DUP wants more from the Magic money tree....Amusing that they want to be part of the union when most? English haven't a clue about NI.
wheres that reported?
so Davis' compromise has upset them & only cold hard cash will make it better, who'd have thought that they were only in it for the money 😉
I know it doesn't mention money, but i am sure a few billion could bring them in line.
The Tory DUP Alliance is an utter abomination.
Says more about the Tories than the DUP to me.
There is no such thing as a Brexit Bill
There are no additional amounts now due simply as a result of us leaving the EU
May offered to meet the spending framework commitment (commonly described as the EU Budget although it is not a budget as we would know it but a spending cap) until Dec 2020 on the basis the UK got two things
1) Full single market access until March 2021 (a bit cheeky as its 24 months access for 21 months money)
2) A guaranteed free trade agreement thereafter (challenging to see how this could be clearly defined)
From the EU’s perspective we are being asked to pay what we already owe as a result of our 40 year membership. The most obvious example is the EU pension fund which is currently underfunded by €60bn, a deficit shared by all EU member states
From UK’s perspective it’s No Deal, No Money
So if EU Parliament votes down any deal they get no money
As UK press have picked up the risk for May is that MPs who favour a WTO deal (which means no payments to the EU) are quite willing to vote down her deal if they think it’s not good enough
As I posted before personally i would vote against any deal requiring payments to EU (transition included) as that reverts to WTO deal option in April 2019 which is my preference
Trump will sign a trade deal with the the UK as that’s good business and a few Tweets aren’t going to change that. The EU needs to be very careful as Trump will use the US’s 30% stake in the IMF to screw them over on the next Greek “bailout”
I’ll post this again
May has offered “high” in return for 2 year transition period and a free trade deal from 2021.
No deal, no money
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😆 😆
that is it really .
Trump will sign a trade deal with the the UK as that’s good business and a few Tweets aren’t going to change that
Hah!
Surely the business people want to stay I'm the single market.
Their wishes are bring ignored.
Why should that orange prick appease his business people when he has the chance to be a **** instead?
Trump will happily sign any deal that is one sided in his favour.
If he wants to deal we should run.
