That's some expensive whistling going on there.
so metal heart good to know that the thickos speak Russian 😉
Mike if progress takes down any of the rabid Brexshiteers, then I count that as even more progress!
Given you swallow Bojos stuff you must be more of a Tory than me !!! 😉
Remainers are just laughing tonight , nothing else .
The thing is I'm not. As a UK tax payer I'll be one of the ones stumping up that cash and worst still for something I think is totally moronic.
Given that 40% of UKIP pay no tax spare a thought for all the rich folk who will have to pay for this on everyone else's behalf
remoaners won't accept any progress - the ultimate goal is to frustrate the democratic outcome by whatever means are necessary. Bit of a set back today though....
I'd very much like to see Brexit work - but unfortunately nothing I've seen convinces me it could. Too much to lose & not enough gain - particularly with the Tories in charge & their odious agenda!
That's not wishful thinking - it's just being pragmatic.
One hopes common sense will prevail but sadly there are "grown-ups" in charge so it's looking highly unlikely.
As being for undemocratic? Yawnnnnnnnnn.......pull the other one, I think it's got strings on..
Ding a ling
So are you more or less optimistic tonight ?
Nothing has changed for me.
I still think it's best off being an intellectual exercise & nothing more.
Cake & eat it?
Not possible. It is basically unworkable.
The sooner that's realisedthe better.
8.5bn a year = total and utter disgrace and a total waste of money
50bn yeah OK then
Let's take 350m a week from the nhs and spend other on brexit
Blimey you did believe Bojo!! 😉
Not in uk tonight so missed news. How frothy was Laura K ?
Ooops too many cervezas, it's not 10:00 uk time yet - 😳
has the daily mail web site exploded yet ?
EDIT
Metro saying 50bn + 40bn commitments
Gonna be some wailing in Daily Mail land...
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A set back to a sensible solution tonight THM for sure.
But then the only sensible solution is no Brexit.
So that’s another £40-50bn to add to the £60bn Brexit is already costing us, plus “commitments” of £40bn (less convinced by that last one).
And it saves us £8bn a year.
Any of you financial whiz kids got a DCF handy?
Why is it that for some it’s only money and economics that matter? 😉
Don’t forget thickos don’t do “sensible”.
On the bright side st least Diane Abbot (remember her) is breaking ranks with Labour Brexshit politicians policy and going for a second referendum #doordi
I don't think anyone is arguing it's only money. Some are arguing that incurring huge financial costs in order to damage ourselves in a multitude of other ways is pretty stupid
Not just money, we also loose respect, allies and get to embrace Trump
As someone who only pops into this thread occasionally to have a moan about the lunacy of Brexit....
Is it fair to say that after all this rubbish about the EU needing us more than we need them... we have wasted months blaming everyone but ourselves to, in the end, just cave in to the obvious and give the EU what they always knew we would have to give them? Financially and otherwise.
Oh, apart from when having a vague idea how to have a borderless border with Ireland.... Basically because it's utterly ridiculous in the first place. Even with fairy dust and magic.
Fairish assessment?
Not just money...
You may loose habitat, species, water quality, air quality, progress on carbon reduction, freedom, partnerships, respect, social justice, freedom, etc.
Yes Brexit [i]could[/i] bring all of the above in spades if we had a progressive administration and media but we don't so it won't.
I am loving it....57 billion quid and we get to keep the Brexiteers
This has to be the worst business deal struck in the history of human commerce.
I keep on having to remind myself that this part of the negotiations was predicted to be far easier than the impending trade talks.
Holy ****.
Only just read THM's reply to me. Tedium. Still pretending Norway, Turkey etc don't have the arrangements they have with the EU. What a timewaster.
As for leaks… if true… about time. "Bill" is what everyone was expecting, yes? Well, what "remoaners" were expecting anyway. Not sure what the plan is for preparing others for the shock of Brexit costing, not saving, money, but hey.
Northwind - Member
perditus - Member
Torygraph smoke screen/distraction .......https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/935563788107042817
The responses there right now are amazing
I've actually finally set up a Twitter account just to post on there.lol
Three are some right bonkzoids on there posting away!
Some of them are intentionally funny, and genius. But this is my favourite:
"It certainly is 1.13 euros to £, pound is back to its pre referendum levels"
Yes, if by pre-referendum you mean 2011. Absolute delusion.
From that little ray of sunshine David Blanchflower
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/29/the-prospects-for-growth-are-not-looking-good-and-may-get-worse?CMP=twt_gu
Only just read THM's reply to me. Tedium. Still pretending Norway, Turkey etc don't have the arrangements they have with the EU. What a timewaster.
On the contrary. This was acknowledged from the outset. As was the fact that neither the Norwegian nor Turkish deals for giving access to the single market are either comprehensive or suitable for the uk. It is delusional to pretend otherwise - one had to completely misunderstand (1) the nature of their deals and (2) the nature of our trading relationship with the EU.
That is an extraordinary waste of time. But st least it’s a small step towards understanding the difference between membership of and access to. Small steps....
But feel free kelvin to waste your own time by ignoring what membership of the EU does and doesn’t mean. 😯
Maybe mol was correct after all!!
So the Mail ignores it, the express says May is playing hard ball, the majority of those that covered it go "bows to pressure"
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-the-papers-42161259
I wonder if it will come out that N10 had anything to do with the Prince's timing?
don't see why they are so keen on getting to the trade talks.
"Hey Barnier, What can we get with no greasy foreigners?"
But feel free kelvin to waste your own time by ignoring what membership of the EU does and doesn’t mean.
We get that there are countries that are not members of the EU, but operate in the SM and/or CU, and so do you. The referendum result was not "the people" asking to be outside either the SM or CU, that is a decision being made by politicans
Infinite loop.
No you simply musunderstand how the Eu is structured and works. By implication you are also arguing that the thickos got it wrong too. Perhaps they didn’t?
We are now negotiating the terms of our access.
We get that there are countries that are not members of the EU, but operate in the SM and/or CU, and so do you. The referendum result was not "the people" asking to be outside either the SM or CU, that is a decision being made by politicans
Deafening silence on the whistling front from the Horrible Foreigners.
Is anyone else thinking the glaringly obvious? That having caved in on the divorce bill, the UK government is clearly in such a weak negotiating position that they'll ultimately have to cave in on the other intractable problems too?
So if the EU plays hardball, which they're clearly doing, then we'll have to remain in the customs union to prevent a hard border in Ireland as the only acceptable solution? Then we'd have to retain a level of harmonisation in all other areas for this to be the case? Single market membership? remaining under the jurisdiction of the European court of justice?
This house of cards could come tumbling down pretty damn quickly really. I think the answer from the EU will be 'non' to any trade talks until the Ireland border issue is resolved to their satisfaction. And I would imagine that 'to their satisfaction' will only accept the above.
Let's hope so eh?
I'm pretty certain that's what the view presently looks like from Brussels. As Boris so astutely noted... they've got us over a barrel
As long as we remain in the single market with open borders I'll be grudgingly reasonably happy - though disappointed we will have thrown away any influence in Europe.
I wonder if it will come out that N10 had anything to do with the Prince's timing?
Probably not in that direction, but were briefed in advance about when it was likely to be announced as would be the normal custom.
Bit of a hopeless approach though, the bad news comes pretty much every day, there's too much to hide behind the skirts of a new princess.
Interesting article in yesterdays Guardian by Polly Toynbee (yes, yes, I know..... but bear with me)
[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/27/irish-question-save-britain-brexit-leo-varadkar ]The Irish Question may save Britain from Brexit[/url]
That raises quite a few interesting possibilities, not least Brexit and the border being the issue that finally changes Sinn Féins attitude to taking its Westminster seats to put a further spanner in the Brexit works
Is anyone keeping a running total of what the combined cost of Brexit will be to the UK, across Government and Industry?
If we just tell Barnier et al to go **** themselves, at what point would the penalties of being a true third country outweigh the upfront/on-going cost of access to the single market?
I'm warming to idea of no deal, just to see what happens!
I'm warming to idea of no deal, just to see what happens!
Serious? Despite everyone who knows anything warning us of how bad that could be for trade and business?
While you're driving home tonight, you could put your foot down, close your eyes, then take your hands off the wheel...... just to see what happens!
Unfortunately, it seems there are enough Tory hardline Brexiteers who do genuinely think this kind of Ayn Rand 'creative chaos' bollocks. But then when you've enough wealth and power to be safely insulated from any of the consequences, I suppose you have the luxury of that?
If we just tell Barnier et al to go **** themselves, at what point would the penalties of being a [b]true third country[/b] outweigh the upfront/on-going cost of access to the single market?
Did you mean a true third world country? Or a country split in three? Or did it just autocorrect from 'turd'?
Pretty quickly. What other country would be willing to do a trade deal with a nation that reneges on its financial commitments with such eagerness? The smell of desperation would be pretty enticing, though.
I'm warming to idea of no deal, just to see what happens!
Hope you've planted your veg for next year, á la Gove.
Serious? Despite everyone who knows anything warning us of how bad that could be for trade and business?
The interview on Ch4 news with the manager of Ford in Europe was quite an eye opener - he said a hard brexit would cost Ford about £1b in tariffs per year.
Did you mean a true third world country? Or a country split in three? Or did it just autocorrect from 'turd'?
'Third Country' is an EU term. It refers to any country truly outside the EU i.e. without membership or any kind of single market access.
Every day's a school day etc. Thanks.
BTW - no deal is still an appalling idea.
BTW - no deal is still an appalling idea.
I thought it was better than a bad deal?
The appalling idea was Brexit per se. If this Government actually takes us out of the EU, I'm of a mind that perhaps the pain of a couple of years under the terms of a hard Brexit is worthwhile so that the 52% actually understand what membership gave us.
Out of interest, if we do leave, what's the process for reapplying in the future? Who would be likely to veto our application?
27 countries who feel we’ve messed them around and can’t be trusted to choose from...
No, I think they’d have us back, but on their terms this time. No rebate, no pound.
Whether we’d accept that...
