[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

We have decided to end our membership of the EU which is first and foremost a business decision

A little more complicated than that, it's a decision regarding peoples lives, I for one have British family settled in the EU outside the UK, and many other EU citizens like myself have family settled in the UK.

Seems like that's the biggest issue, and the EU seem to agree:

[i]"The Government yesterday released a technical paper spelling out the details of a two-year grace period for EU nationals to apply for settled status once the UK leaves the bloc so that they can continue their lives in the UK.

The Parliament's cross-party Brexit steering group however today said there were still "major issues" to be resolved while Brexit coordinator Guy Verhofstadt criticised the "inadequate" proposal.

The rebuttal comes less than 24 hours before the resumption of the next round of Brussels talks between David Davis and Michel Barniers' teams, in negotiations that will be key to Britain moving to trade talks before its new December deadline.

"EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the EU were told that nothing would change because of Brexit. The fact that the UK Government needs 25 paragraphs to explain how they lives will change proves this was a fabrication," the European Parliament’s Brexit coordinator Guy Verhofstadt told The Independent.
"[/i]

😯 Ed

Yes it’s more complicated than that but you have to decide what drives what. The three conditions are only there to delay real negotiations.

Have you missed the fact that we have agreed to honour our financial commitments - deliberately or otherwise?

No, we haven't. We have indicated that we want to ensure that for the current budget period, no other country will lose out financially because we are leaving. We have previously made commitments long past that period, and have yet to say what we intend to do there… some ministers having even foolishly ruled out paying anything towards any of the schemes beyond the end of the budget, including those that we insisted on and pushed other countries into… infrastructure projects linking eastern and central regions for example.

We have decided to end our membership of the EU which is first and foremost a business decision

Not following the thread closely now but - what?

Yes we have. In writing and verbally

As in the EU is working towards ensuring that businesses pay their taxes and the UK seems outraged that multinationals should have to pay taxes too?

Yes it’s more complicated than that but you have to decide what drives what. The three conditions are only there to delay real negotiations.

So, why did 'we' agree to them, and then not do the work or make the commitments required to get them out of the way? A rhetorical question perhaps, sorry. Parliament even tried to get the government to get one of the conditions out of the way BEFORE triggering A50. That might have been wise.

You forgot the smiley there

The data is readily available to prove that this is not the case and to prove that the current government has done th oppositw of what you claim. Dr might even look it up for you. He’s getting into the now....

Yes we have. In writing and verbally.

No, either you missunderstand, or are doing your wilful blindness thing again. We have said that we will only honour commitments for this budget period, but had committed ourselves to projects that run long after that (most of which are in our interests and we'd be wise to maintain funding for and keep them on track, but hey, tell Boris that, as he ruled that out after the PM carefully worded her speech so as not to do so).

Agree?

Have you followed how this process works?

The three conditions are only there to delay real negotiations.

Not ruining peoples family lives and livleyhoods is hardly a 'condition'. It's basic human decency, the the UK government, and you, apparently, take issue with that.

No I do not

I would be very interested to hear how many people will be negatively or positively affected by Brexit, ill start

Brexit may well wipe out my business I sell houses in France to mainly Brits we are already experiencing grave difficulty!

students are no more immune to their own groupthink and social norms than any other group of people! I think this accounts for a little bit of Junkyard’s graph.

Groupthink is a psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome.

Wanting to stay in the EU cannot be called irrational or dysfunctional. I am not even sure wanting to eave is either - though possibly not accepting what it will mean may be ??
Its really is the last act of the desperate to say group think – what it means is I have no facts to counter this so I will just shout out something I cannot prove.

PS its not my graph its just the facts in visual form.

Have you followed how this process works?

I would be very interested to hear how many people will be negatively or positively affected by Brexit, ill start

I work for a agricultural supplier.... and the expectation is a large percentage of the customer base will fold.

[quote=teamhurtmore]The only difference is that I accept that it is going to happen. So rather than wasting time moaning I am preparing for the new world. It’s actually fun if depressing.

Thankfully not everybody is prepared to capitulate their beliefs in the face of ill-informed idiocy from 33% of the population.

Handily having the balls to stand up for what you believe in is a fundamental cornerstone of democracy - it's called opposition - and the responsibility for opposing poor decisions doesn't stop at MP's.

Research institute here, 2 issues are less funding to go round, tho hopefully government will take up some of that.

More of an issue is that EU colleagues quite worried with future still up in the air, some of them already taken their skills elsewhere in EU

Brexit may well wipe out my business I sell houses in France to mainly Brits we are already experiencing grave difficulty!

I think you'll find your French colleagues are finding things hard at present, Wicki. I'm selling a flat and had regular chats with the agents before finding a buyer. People are waiting to see what Macron does that wil affect the market and rental market before committing. I've decided to just keep what I use myself for the moment, and hope the powder doesn't get too damp (inflation) between now and when/if we decide to reinvest.

The price for the average supermarket shopping basket will go up, UK farmers will lose their bail outs so UK food will cost more.
Imported food will cost more.
Customs clearance queues at ports for imported goods will be longer, that will push prices up.

So we are all affected for the worse, those on low wages the most.

Yey sovereignty!

But not even sovereignty, as the government seeks to destroy Parliament influence with the 'great repeal bill'.

Yay dictatorship?

But not even sovereignty, as the government seeks to destroy Parliament influence with the 'great repeal bill'.

So do we take it that you would not like to see EU law remaining on our statute books after we have left? Odd, I would have thought that would be a top priority?

I'm alright Jack. If brexit ****s up the UK science base then there might even be more scraps for us to pick up, and once the old brexit-voting relatives have popped their clogs my wife and I might piss off to Europe (or elsewhere) taking our expensive taxpayer-funded education and skills with us.

I'd rather stay here under the status quo though.

Removing democratic oversight because of "priorities" has happened before.
You'll be up in arms if our next non-Conservative PM tries that.
Select committees asking pertinent questions is doable (assuming the government actual starts the work this year).

So do we take it that you would not like to see EU law remaining on our statute books after we have left? Odd, I would have thought that would be a top priority?

I'm not sure how you drew that conclusion from my post.

No laws needs should be repealed without full cross party scrutiny and right to veto in parliament.

Allowing the current disfunctional government to cross out what ever bits they don't like is even more criminaly insane than brexit.

Although if it's made legal to scrap large sections of law without proper scrutiny it wouldn't be a criminal act any more.. Which is my point.

Please, Mods, confiscate THM's question mark. Pretty please.

Allowing the current disfunctional government to cross out what ever bits they don't like is even more criminaly insane than brexit.

Although if it's made legal to scrap large sections of law without proper scrutiny it wouldn't be a criminal act any more.. Which is my point.

I understand why you were worried, given ^.

Fortunately, neither point is valid so you concerns are unfounded. You can relax.

I would be very interested to hear how many people will be negatively or positively affected by Brexit, ill start

My 6 year old may move to Poland with her mother.

You can relax.

****.

My 6 year old may move to Poland with her mother.

I would advise that you prepare for all possible scenarios as others would have us believe they have done.

Oh sorry, just your child - can you not put forward a business plan for that? Quitlings don’t really get stuff that doesn’t fit easily on a balance sheet.

ROFL as the young 'uns say - bravo DD 😀

French national living in France after 20 years in the UK.
Wife is english and still have property in UK.
Brexit means my wife might not be allowed to stay in France and I might not be allowed in UK ?

THM - I have a fertile imagination. A pint says if you tell me all your scenarios I can think of one more.
As an aside to that yesterday’s R4 program on Trump was making me think that a move to full European unification might be very smart. The practicalities might get in the way of course.
Strike wise - safe in Yorkshire, cycling the 20 miles each way to work today.

wicki - Member

I would be very interested to hear how many people will be negatively or positively affected by Brexit, ill start

Living on the Eire/NI border there's a very real possibility that a journey I make 6+ times a day will go from being a normal journey to a process of checkpoints, searches and interrogation.

At worst, the relatively dull countryside at the back of my house will become a potential smuggling rout for people and goods seeking to get into the UK unseen, which will probably lead to the area becoming militarised, which would lead to friction with locals, which would equal legitimate targets for dissident republicans.

So Brexit could literally mean I have terrorists in my garden.

So Brexit could literally mean I have terrorists in my garden.

But planning for these things is "fun", we are assured.

The three conditions are only there to delay real negotiations.

Only if you are a deluded brexiteer. For anyone with any sense its a perfectly reasonable standpoint

Or if you are a sociopath who is interested in your own little corner of business and don't give a shit about NI, families being split up and the UK reneging on financial commitments

DrJ - Member

So Brexit could literally mean I have terrorists in my garden.

But planning for these things is "fun", we are assured.

I've already had to make choices about which school and nursery my children go to and career choices for my wife and I based on what Brexit may or may not bring.

It's cute to see this thread bumped and constantly read people bitch about nothing.

So do we take it that you would not like to see EU law remaining on our statute books after we have left? Odd, I would have thought that would be a top priority?

Brexit means my wife might not be allowed to stay in France

and I might not be allowed in UK ?

I've already had to make choices about which school and nursery my children go to and career choices for my wife and I based on what Brexit may or may not bring.

That's nice. Might not see my daughter for 11 months of the year.

THM are these the minor inconveniences that people will have to put up with,so that you can have fun making money?

Still no answer to NI issue. Still no answer to the rights of EU citiens. Still no acceptance of responsibility for spending we committed to

Still no chance of any deal even a transition

Still no adults involved with this on the UK side

RichPenny - Member

I've already had to make choices about which school and nursery my children go to and career choices for my wife and I based on what Brexit may or may not bring.

That's nice. Might not see my daughter for 11 months of the year.

Might not

I've already had to

Yep, definitely parity between your job and nursery arrangements an me not seeing my daughter for all of the year. Here's a tip: You're a ****.

FFS he may not see his daughter there is a time to stop being a **** and have some basic humanity even on STW

This place can be both awesome and also the dregs

TBF, that's hardly thm's fault.