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Not if you read what he said rather than what was cherry picked by the papers.
followed him on twitter, I very much enjoyed what he said
sadly He deleted his twitter account (just as Vote Leave did to try & hide their lies)
fortunately the internetz is cool at keep tings, so ive cherry picked some stuff for you
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but youre right it was probably all spin by those naughty journos
https://jonworth.eu/dominic-cummings-odysseanproject-deletes-twitter-account-piecing-back-together/
[quote=airtragic ]
Agree with this, but don't you think a lot of young graduates voted remain, without fully understanding the implications, because all their friends were? Probably not in the same numbers, of course!
The one major thing a university education gives you is the ability to critically analyse information provided to you, not to just accept it as [i]de facto[/i].
I don't deny he wrote those things. I followed him, it is a great shame he has left Twitter because he was a great source for interesting reading. However, he went on the record pretty early saying he felt the government was mishandling the negotiating, which was picked up by the press saying, and I paraphrase, "Vote Leave head thinks Brexit is a disaster". However, what they failed to report was that he went on to say he was still happy about the vote as the Exit Deal is a sideshow in comparison with the structural change that can be achieved post Brexit which will more than make up for the shortcomings of any deal.
I was going to post this at the time it was reported but I couldn't be bothered on that occasion.
However, what they failed to report was that he went on to say he was still happy about the vote as the Exit Deal is a sideshow in comparison with the structural change that can be achieved post Brexit which will more than make up for the shortcomings of any deal.
Ah I do love the wafty nature of these statements, rule one don't list them in too much detail as the could be attributed as nothing to do with the EU.
Don't mention all the things you are going to sacrifice to get these [insert stuff]
and certainly don't offer any possible measure of what the loss and gain could be.
he went on to say he was still happy about the vote as the Exit Deal is a sideshow in comparison with the structural change that [s]can[/s] could be achieved post Brexit which [s]will[/s] could more than make up for the shortcomings of any deal.
and iirc that he didnt think that those in power had the nous to carry out those changes,
obviously it was only the towering intellect of dominic cummings (or possibly the guy that managed the Apollo program) could pull it off,
hubris much?
meanwhile US banks warning Trump about a chaotic brexit.... how arse-backward is that!
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and iirc that he didnt think that those in power had the nouse to carry out those changes, infact it was only the towering intellect of dominic cummings (or possibly the guy that managed the Apollo program) could pull it off, hubris much?
I know he's great, really enjoy his strident views. Whilst I am certainly not a disciple some of the problems he identifies I have certainly come across. Historically, the Civil Service has been more interested in policy than implementation so the people who get to the top are policy people. One of the interesting arguments made on here is that we could have done much more to alleviate the issues raised by imported EU policy by introducing restrictions that were within the rules. However, we rarely seem to have done this, unlike other members. Some accuse us of gilding the lily Could this be because as the policy has been sorted, the higher echelons are not interested? A suggestion is emerging that Brexit is bringing about cultural change at the Home Office, you've got George Monbiot saying Michael Gove is the Secretary of State he has been waiting for. maybe more of the same will follow and that may serve the country well.
Well said. More inconvenient facts hence the desperate need to bully and intimidate others who disagreeSame old culprits as always.
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Plus, that's a pretty noisy graph, I think the right-hand half of the line is struggling a bit!
If accurate, that graph is actually an amazingly strong trend for any biological observation, never mind sociological.
And more bad news for May and co - obvious to anyone whith half a brain of course. Still no significant progress on any of the 3 major stumbling blocks, cliff edge appproaching fast
The British government has less than a month to make a concession on the Brexit bill in order to guarantee launching trade talks in December, the Guardian understands.Senior officials in Brussels say talks have stalled since Theresa May’s Florence speech and warn the EU will find it difficult to agree to trade talks at a December summit unless the prime minister offers more on the Brexit divorce settlement.
There remains “a lot to do on financial obligations”, Italy’s Europe minister Sandro Gozi said on Tuesday, after meeting the Brexit secretary, David Davis, in Rome.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/07/brexit-eu-warns-uk-it-has-less-than-a-month-to-make-concessions
Which is nicely encapsulated in this thread by the fact that anyone disagreeing with the pervasive view is called a troll.
Not at all. tiresomebore is labelled a troll because he steadfastly refuses to engage in any discussion or provide any information or argment, and contributes only gnomic utterances and sneering.
Worth noting that despite his unpleasant views, ninfan has been known to put his hand in his pocket to help struggling stw''ers, and not just to send his pals a P.
Fortunately those blessed with more than half a brain - including the Chancellor of Germany - know that this is not the case and that finally we may start discussing the real issues in December. That is unless the EU decide to play silly games again but I doubt it - far too much to lose and not enough time to get organised. Their games have to end eventually.
Dr - nice excuse for real laziness. It takes < 2 mins to know the full details of our negotiating team and a little bit longer to learn more about the quality of the team behind them it's not difficult unless you want to deliberately misrepresent the truth.
However, much more fun to watch these people - including former ambassadors - be abused by Internet bullies instead as then everyone can see how crass their (the bullies) arguments are. Daily posts of stuff that can be falsified in less than the time it takes to say " you really are making this up."
The tag team are doing a great job at keeping the comedy levels up which is much better than the real news which is rather dull ie, we will be finally start proper trade discussions in next two months after far too much unnecessary willy waving on both sides
Dr - nice excuse for real laziness. It takes < 2 mins to know the full details of our negotiating team and a little bit longer to learn more about the quality of the team behind them it's not difficult unless you want to deliberately misrepresent the truth.
All very interesting but that was not my question. Still, on with the sneering.
[quote=tjagain ]
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/07/brexit-eu-warns-uk-it-has-less-than-a-month-to-make-concessions
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To be fair, it is November 8th and you wouldn't imagine talks taking place around Christmas, so that's not really news
“yourguitarhero - Member
airtragic »
Agree with this, but don't you think a lot of young graduates voted remain, without fully understanding the implications, because all their friends were? Probably not in the same numbers, of course!
The one major thing a university education gives you is the ability to critically analyse information provided to you, not to just accept it as de facto.”
I know a lot of young graduates. I am one (ish). I think you’re over-egging this particular pudding; students are no more immune to their own groupthink and social norms than any other group of people! I think this accounts for a little bit of Junkyard’s graph.
To be fair, it is November 8th and you wouldn't imagine talks taking place around Christmas, so that's not really news
Didn't DD & May say we'd have them in December?
Anyway the view of smug remain voters that they are more intelligent than leave voters provides a convenient fig leave to hid the fact they couldn't mount a sufficiently persuasive argument to convince their fellow citizens.
I agree about the failure to put up and win a persuasive argument, although it still rankles that the counter was basically lies, but that's a bus shaped argument we've done to death.
But having accepted that, doesn't change the fact that it's still a ****ing stupid thing to leave the EU and is becoming more apparent day by day.
So all this 'it's your own fault for not putting a better argument forward' and 'will of the people' comments are basically posh ways of saying 'leave won, you lost, get over it' which when the prize is a trip off the cliff in a bus with a lie painted on the side on it is about as daft as it gets.
Didn't DD & May say we'd have them in December?
and the troops home by Christmas.
re "Groupthink" at university… the variety of people, from different countries, different political views, different wealth backgrounds, different life experiences, was far far greater at the university I went to than it was back in the rural area I grew up in, and would probably have stayed in if I hadn't gone on to do a degree. Don't want you views, opinions and prejudices challenged? Don't go to university.
Those who talk about university groupthink are just upset by reality's well-known left wing bias.
re "Groupthink" at university… the variety of people, from different countries, different political views, different wealth backgrounds, different life experiences, was far far greater at the university I went to than it was back in the rural area I grew up in,
have to agree with that
Id describe uni as a melting pot and inside my biochemistry lectures politics was never mentioned once!
nor was it outside, tbh things like 50p a shot, traffic light disco & when was that essay supposed to be in were far hotter topics
Fortunately those blessed with more than half a brain
Don't do yourself down. Amongst the sneer and the evidence-free claims I'd like to think you're in the top 1-2% of Brexit supporters.
we will be finally start proper trade discussions in next two months after far too much unnecessary willy waving on both sides
If you keep predicting it you might get lucky someday but you've been predicting the "grown ups" will be getting down negociating trade for months now and I can't see Britain is any nearer to fulfilling the necessary three conditions.
Will that be before or after the Euro Zone collapse?
Don't do yourself down. Amongst the sneer and the evidence-free claims I'd like to think you're in the top 1-2% of Brexit supporters
You can think what you like. It is of zero relevance to me. I am not a supporter of Brexshit despite what you say. But I don’t expect you to say things that are correct anyway. I have been a remainer and will remain so. I will also continue to support FOM. But I am in a minority in both issues so tant pis
The only difference is that I accept that it is going to happen. So rather than wasting time moaning I am preparing for the new world. It’s actually fun if depressing. Despite what you guys claim there are some extraordinary brains being applied to how we adjust to the new world.
Edukator. I am not predicting I am involved. So you guys kept making stuff and moan on and on. The rest of the world will not be waiting
You have been warned.....your choice if you decide to prepare and adjust but the iceberg Is melting
For the vast majority there's no preparation or adjustments available, we don't have funds to move off shore, assets or shares to put in trusts or opportunities to change our country of employment. All there's to look forward to is being on the wrong end of a brexit shafting- whooppe****ingdoo!
So rather than wasting time moaning I am preparing for the new world
> sigh <
Yet again. What a timewaster.
People are preparing their firms and families for Brexit AND pointing out that it is being poorly handled, and that the best outcome is either to stop, delay, or limit our leaving of all the agreements and bodies we currently share with our EU and EEA neighbours.
Despite what you guys claim there are some extraordinary brains being applied to how we adjust to the new world.
Well, I pointed out that the insane talents of our civil servants are being utterly wasted by their political masters, who are proving to be ****ing useless, is that what you refer to? Or are you talking about people in industry being asked to prepare for the changes ahead with a government doing its best to blindfold them and tie their hands behind their backs? Lots of great people preparing for whatever is coming up, most with very little positive to say about how the current Conservative ministers are assisting them in their endeavours.
Well then you are screwed either way
My life will also be harder, considerably so. But shit happens. Deal with it (as best you can)
So rather than wasting time moaning I am preparing for the new world
Funny thing is you are actually the one wasting your time preparing for all sorts of eventualities when you have absolutely no idea what the outcome will be and you don't seem to realise that by far the most likely is no change with A50 being withdrawn and all your preparation being worthless.
My preparation has been a few mins googling e-residency in Estonia but I'm not going to waste time and money actually doing anything about it unless and until it actually becomes necessary, which I'm betting it won't.
Um… you really should be preparing… the "no change" scenerio may be right at the top of a list of desired outcomes, but it's right down at the bottom of the list of likely outcomes.
It is being poorly handled on both sides. It’s myopic to simply focus on what we are doing wrong while ignoring the fact that the Eu refuse to negotiate. If you want to swallow their tactics hook line and sinker, again that’s your choice.
The best outcome - or least worse one - can only happen when we get down to proper negotiation and reduce the uncertainty that business has to deal with. We are adaptable, but we need to know what we have to adapt to.
On the contrary captain I know all the scenarios and have planned for each.
You bet is far riskier than mine. But your choice
THM - you do not know “all the scenarios”. No one does.
I will accept you have looked at some likely ones.
Also the “best outcome” is not to leave. I accept it may not be the most likely - though it is undeniably more likely than 6 months ago.
I know all the scenarios
Don't underestimate yourself.
The only difference is that I accept that it is going to happen. So rather than wasting time moaning I am preparing for the new world.
I think a lot of us accept it's going to happen and are preparing for it as best we can. As has been said - for most people there's not much they can do beyond set up Skype accounts so they can continue to talk to their kids. As for "moaning" - it takes no more time than sneering and you spend plenty of time doing that.
Despite what you guys claim there are some extraordinary brains being applied to how we adjust to the new world.
Maybe so, but as 2 of them don't belong to Davies or May there's a limit to what they can achieve.
The best outcome - or least worse one - can only happen when we get down to proper negotiation and reduce the uncertainty that business has to deal with.
Because business is the only important thing. Right.
Some months ago I emailed Guy Verhofstadt directly regarding preservation of rights for those who do not wish to have them removed from us against our consent (that's many of us here I suspect).
I had a personalised reply - extract ->
From the moment this process started, I have been convinced that some sort of special solution needs to be found for individual citizens, like you and [redacted for privacy], who want to maintain their ties with the European Union.However, I have to say that this will be difficult, but what I will promise is that I will do everything I can for people like you who feel European. You are not alone and your voice is being heard.
It's heartening they are hearing our voices at least.
If you feel the same, drop him a line.
Good afternoon IGM what a relief to see your comments
But you are not correct. I do know all the outcomes for what I and my clients do. We are also prepared for all of them too. Just waiting to execute and get on with it. That’s what businesses do - well successful ones
Of course the best scenario is no Brexshit. But th probability of that is <5%. If my preparation is wasted I would be delighted as all the remoaners here. However, I always prepare for the worst and hope for the best. More importantly that is also what I am paid to do too.
No risk on my side, there's really nothing to do for a while yet. Govt has promised continuity of EU funding (which I don't actually have at the moment, though I do have funding from an EU-based organisation and some plans for future consortium bids). That's even for applications that go in before the day of brexit. E-residency takes a few weeks so I can shift the official address to EU if I need to in the future.
Dr just read your own posts when it comes to sneering. I don’t even done close to your example.
But I am glad that you have at least made some effort to answer your own question. Wasn’t that hard was it. So next time the internet bully spouts rubbish and abuses those involved you too will know how to respond.
IGM are you caught by strike?. Had full day of meetings - including proper Brexshit discussions - so bunking off early to avoid the crowds!!
But I am glad that you have at least made some effort to answer your own question.
You seem to be too dim to have understood what my question was, so you are ill-placed to comment on whether I have answered it myself or not. But do keep on pretending to know everything - it is marginally less boring than your sneering.
Because business is the only important thing. Right
Wrong - as before - stop your sneering and step back. We have decided to end our membership of the EU which is first and foremost a business decision as it affects our ability to access our most important markets. So our negotiations are or at least should be on the future terms of how both parties are going through deal with each other. The rest follows from that not vice verse - unless you swallow the EU bullshit.
Its very simple
You seem to be too dim
Thank you for proving my point better that I could have done myself
How we intend to treat each other's people, and honour financial commitments already made, appear to comes first. And our leaders agreed to that (if only in principle). Either they should have sought a different starting agenda, or done the work required to get those things out of the way in a speedy way. New trading arrangements need to be at least hinted at within the next few months… not all industries can change how they operate in the final hour… and state bodies have shown time and time again that they sure as hell can't.
Have you missed the fact that we have agreed to honour our financial commitments - deliberately or otherwise?
But glad you see the fact that no one can respond at the 11th hour. We need to reduce uncertainty and get on with negotiating the terms of our future relationship. Only one party wants to do that. The one you seem to oddly favour?!?!!
Edukator. I am not predicting I am involved.
And yet you claim to be on a train into London when the negotiations are taking place in Brussels. And you aren't on the EU team so can't possibly know that the UK's tiny gestures towards the three conditions will be sufficient to allow the start of trade talks.