He was in the TA, you know
So, the government in its lastest bid to reunite us all and reassure us that everything is in hand, just e-mailed 5.8m of us a repetitive and dismissive statement saying they don’t care what we think now.
Using the 2017 General Elecition as an excuse was utterly insulting.
I've just seen a link to this from Dan Hannan, published a few days before the referendum.
https://reaction.life/britain-looks-like-brexit/
I seem to remember so-called experts and remoaners saying it wouldn't all be this easy, but Dan knew best.
During the first 12 months after the vote, Britain confirmed with the various countries that have trade deals with the EU that the same deals would continue. It also used that time to agree much more liberal terms with those states which had run up against EU protectionism, including India, China and Australia
I do wonder how many Brexit cheerleaders genuinely believed this sort of rubbish and how many were latching onto it for the chance to make some money/have a go at being PM.
i love that hannan piece, it exposes him as the weapons grade bell-end that he is
The cognative dissonance of the morons responsible for this idiocy is truly beyond belief
David Davis was just commentating on BBC news - he was talking about this utter shambles like a defender who just shanked a ball straight into his own goal then blithely bemoaning the striker for not scoring to win the match
I don’t think i’ve Seen more of an imbecile given ministerial office. And I include Chris Grayling in that
And the Labour Party is presently 10 points behind them in the polls. Anyone heard anything from magic grandad recently.
We’re utterly ****ed! A plague on both of their houses!
I genuinely didn't know this until just now......Failing Grayling was born on April 1st 😂😂
Failing Grayling was born on April 1st
Wouldn't it be poetic if he was the end of May.
That Hannan piece is epic, beautifully timed with this:
https://twitter.com/shahmiruk/status/1110615926641168384
https://twitter.com/shahmiruk/status/1108043680928227328
Oh, to put it in context Shahmir Sanni's backstory:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/24/brexit-whistleblower-shahmir-sanni-interview-vote-leave-cambridge-analytica
In the space of twenty-four hours the last remaining respected but boisterous Leave proponent who had hitherto escaped public hoisting by their own petard - Daniel Hannan has been neatly debagged.
In many areas, whether because of economies of scale or because rules were largely set at global level, the UK and the EU continued to adopt the same technical standards. But, from 2019, Britain could begin to disapply those regulations where the cost of compliance outweighed any benefits.
We want access to the same market but with different regulatory standards. We know that's controversial, but we've a plan.
The EU’s Clinical Trials Directive, for example, had wiped out a great deal of medical research in Britain. Outside it, we again lead the world. Opting out of the EU’s data protection rules has turned Hoxton into the software capital of the world. Britain is no longer hampered by Brussels restrictions on sales, promotions and e-commerce.
We'll repeal our entire clinical ethics procedure. We'll also not be as stringent with your data as the rest of Europe. Hey, that's just the start. Standards are for snowflakes.
Other EU regulations, often little known, had caused enormous damage. The REACH Directive, limiting the import of chemical products, had imposed huge costs on manufacturers. The bans on vitamin supplements and herbal remedies had closed down many health shops. London’s art market had been brutalised by EU rules on VAT and retrospective taxation. All these sectors have revived.
Brussels doesn't like us selling herbal supplements as alternative medicines that are unproven, not subject to testing process, of no therapeutic value etc. Honestly, if you have to ask why this would be in any way a regulatory problem then you'd need your head felt.
Hands up who knows of a herbal medicine manufacturer or retailer that's been decimated by the EU? Anyone?
Other cities, too, have boomed, not least Liverpool and Glasgow, which had found themselves on the wrong side of the country when the EEC’s Common External Tariff was phased in in the 1970s.
Go on Daniel, explain the context....
In 2016, the viability of our commercial ports was threatened by the EU’s Ports Services Directive, one of many proposed rules that was being held back so as not to boost the Leave vote.
Context! Why? Where?
You'd have to be practically illiterate to assert this:
During the first 12 months after the vote, Britain confirmed with the various countries that have trade deals with the EU that the same deals would continue.
The EU would naturally allow us to export goods and services which are not to previously agreed regulatory standards within the Single Market with no regulatory border?
It also used that time to agree much more liberal terms with those states which had run up against EU protectionism, including India, China and Australia.
Oh yeah, different regulatory standards = protectionism. Basically, we flood the EU with cheap, low par goods which do not meet their own safety standards. Not cool.
These new treaties came into effect shortly after independence. Britain, like the EFTA countries, now combines global free trade with full participation in EU markets.
Now able to flood the EU with cheap goods and services, possibly as a conduit from other marketplaces with few safety standards in place, we sit back, eat cake and pat ourselves on the back for our ingenuity. Of course, we risk that just one minor flaw ion our plans will be a catastrobollix lasting for decades. Better get those trade deals signed Liam!
I've just had a hungarian friend in tears in the street because he is worried about the place that he has called home does not want him to be here.
And the Labour Party is presently 10 points behind them in the polls. Anyone heard anything from magic grandad recently
Ipsosmori -4
Britain elects poll tracker -4.3
But, yeah, carry on.
But, yeah, carry on.
The actual size of the gap isn't the point though, is it? the point is that the opposition are still polling behind the most inept government in the history of Westminster.
I don't agree. 10 points is not 4 points.
If not he could've simply said Labour are behind in the polls.
This is exactly what Fiona Bruce did on question time, and clearly amps up the stats to suit an hysterical agenda.
the point is that the opposition are still polling behind the most inept government in the history of Westminster.
All it really shows is that people being polled are not aware of what is currently going on, not really interested in parliament, don't understand what is happening with Brexit etc,. and are just saying they would vote for who they voted for last time.
Not many people bother keeping up with what is going on, analysing it, forming fact based opinions and so on - you need to spend more time talking to the average voter
Barry Gardiner spinning HARD against a referendum on the Today programme this morning. And against recinding A50, but that's less controversial. "Labour is not a Remain party."
Biased source? Maybe...
Have we done...?
https://twitter.com/richardosman/status/1110810049163726848?s=09
Not us obviously - we are all over it
haha - Moggster writing in Mail today that he will back May's deal. Wow, Imagine if he had done that months ago.
I'm personally glad he didn't because this way the gobshite might lose it all and hopefully people will remember his 'consistent' behaviour. Unfortunately no doubt he'll get a free pass because he talks with a nice accent.
Not many people bother keeping up with what is going on, analysing it, forming fact based opinions and so on – you need to spend more time talking to the average voter
What would change things is if one of the parties had a dynamic leadership who was engaging with people and trying to build a broad church of followers towards a better outcome from this and being able to give people something to rally around.
Regardless of the policies on offer labour doesn't have a salesman or statesman at the helm, it needs one of those at the moment to be something different or worth voting for, too many votes are being lost because they will never vote for some version of what they think Corbyn is.
Sorry to say the experiment is over for them.
Barry Gardiner spinning HARD against a referendum on the Today programme this morning. And against recinding A50, but that’s less controversial. “Labour is not a Remain party.”
Yeah, he was pretty unequivocal. I'm now struggling to see any difference between Mays position and Corbyns. If we'd have had Jezza at the wheel for the past 2 years, we'd be in exactly the same place - heading for No Deal. A situation Jezza would be more than happy with, I'm sure
The total absence of an opposition at this juncture is as shameful as the total chaos in government. An opposition is meant to hold the executive to account. A duty the labour front bench seem to have little or no interest in carrying out. And it's pretty easy to see why when listening to Barry Gardiner this morning. Because they're pretty much in the same place. They're entirely complicit in this shambles.
Corbyn disappearing off to Morcombe on Saturday instead of attending a huge march advocating what is allegedly his own party's policy tells you everything you need to know
You have to say that the ERG's tactic of holding the EU's feet to the fire until the very last second to get those last minute cpncessions that the EU always gives has worked. Not one ERG member has blinked.
Moggster writing in Mail today that he will back May’s deal.
I think someone's had a word with him in the strongest possible terms. Possibly involving a kidnapping.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/70-tory-mps-may-deal-opposed
Current view of who is where, 66 still out there and from opposite sides of the debate - she needs to get them all on side to get even close. Anything less and a strong opposition can defeat MV3 if it's ever put.
Regardless of the policies on offer labour doesn’t have a salesman or statesman at the helm
Is there one of sufficient calibre in the entire commons? As I said, we have a political deficit in the UK for a long time. It's not specifically Corbyn's fault, but a much wider issue. How did Corbyn and May become leaders in the first place? Cos there were no better options.
If we’d have had Jezza at the wheel for the past 2 years, we’d be in exactly the same place – heading for No Deal.
My opinion of Corbyn has gone down in the last 6 months, but it's still higher than yours. Corbyn isn't a megalomaniac, whatever you say about him, and I think he would have budged. Hell, ANYONE would have budged more than May. The woman's a nutter. I want to say she reminds me of Nero but I don't think that's right. What other historical leader was so intransigent that it led to national ruin?
Hell, ANYONE would have budged more than May
You're talking about a man who hasn't changed his opinion on anything, least of all the EU, since 1971.
Everything about him says that were he in her position he'd have been equally as intransigent, autocratic and tin-eared, as they're his primary character traits too.
He presently won't even support his own party's policy of a second referendum, because he won't do anything to jeopardise the Brexit he's always wanted
Is there one of sufficient calibre in the entire commons? As I said, we have a political deficit in the UK for a long time. It’s not specifically Corbyn’s fault, but a much wider issue. How did Corbyn and May become leaders in the first place? Cos there were no better options.
The push from the centre for both parties is hurting this, it's meaning you have to be "True" left or right to get a shot - the disdain many have for those who were new labour shows how poisoned it's got in there. We get who we deserve but maybe we deserve another one there...
there should be more of this from the press.
https://twitter.com/PaddySisyphus/status/1110635861841006594
Last time I visited New Zealand it looked like a nice place to live.
Anyone been there lately?
What about Canada? That looks quite nice, too.
Talking of needing statesmen instead of the charlatans we're landed with
Donald Tusk being just that. Just makes you even more convinced that this is where we need to be, and even sadder that we're where we are
Just read Ben Bradley's Wikipedia page. Jesus Christ.
"I think police brutality should be encouraged!" (3 days after mark duggans death)
There's other similarly offensive bollox
But to be honest what do we expect?
The conservative party future is in good hands
+binners
Tusk:
12 April is a new cliff edge date: before that date the UK still has a clear choice between a deal, no-deal, long extension, and revoking Article 50.
EU still ok with us going "you know what, this Brexit lark is a bad idea". Probably not happy enough to buy us a round of chips on the way back from the pub, but it could be worse.
Well now that Barry Gardiner has officially staked Labour as being pro Brexit, in all circumstances, it's now just a toss up between lib Dems & green, off to check my candidates websites.
It's a bit of a relief really, no longer have to bother second guessing what labours policy actually is.
I’ve just had a hungarian friend in tears in the street because he is worried about the place that he has called home does not want him to be here.
And I've talked to many people from commonwealth and other countries that wonder why it is so much harder/expensive for them to be in the UK . My partner works in a care home and the best/friendliest staff in her opinion are from non-EU countries, but we effectively discriminate against them.
I've just heard the Barry Gardiner bit from today. To be honest why is everyone surprised - Labour's policy has consistently been "respect the ref" - with the order of preference being (a) GE (b) customs union based deal (c) second ref only to test May's WA or no deal v remain.
He was a bit naive to say straight up that Labour is a Brexit party not least because the PLP and membership aren't.
Until the Labour does or doesn't shift it's official position - which could be influenced by on what happens with the indicative votes this is the reality.
However, the Parliamentary Labour Party is just as much a continuum of Brexit groupings as the Tories, just with the centre of gravity a bit more to the 2nd ref than no deal end.
I think a possible progression may be 2nd round of indicative votes ends up with a customs union/common market 2/Norway plus option with FoM being agreed - adopted by Labour and then rejected by May. That could force a 2nd ref but we shouldn't hold our collective breathe.
That email from No.10 just about sums up the shambles of a government we’ve got. “We will be leaving”, “We will be debating it on 1st April 2019“
Oh the irony
Just what the hell is labour policy, more contradictions..
we effectively discriminate against them
Don't worry, soon we'll be treating all immigrants like dirt, and fining companies just for employing them.
... Matty - I think thisis the Labour party cracks becoming clearer - you can fence sit for too long. The indicative votes forces the issue. If for no other reason it's a good thing...
Tusk said that remainers "are Europeans". Interesting turn of phrase.
And I’ve talked to many people from commonwealth and other countries that wonder why it is so much harder/expensive for them to be in the UK . My partner works in a care home and the best/friendliest staff in her opinion are from non-EU countries, but we effectively discriminate against them.
I hope you explained to them hat is because of UK rules, not the EU, the UK could if it wished allow a simple and cheap emigration from commonwealth countries.
Just what the hell is labour policy, more contradictions..
When it comes to the Corbyn, you have to really listen / read the words, not the tone. "Confirmatory Referendum" - what, his Un-Negotiated deal v May's Negotiated deal? How much sugar do you want on your shit sandwich?
Every single 'man or women on the street' who wants an second referendum, assumes it will have the option to remain. Unless he says it in plain, simple terms, don't assume it.
Really, he wants to play both sides, he's expecting to have the chance of another GE soon and more important that Brexit, he wants to blame the Tories for it.
Yes, the answer would be to relax immigration rules for commonwealth people, not increase them for EU citizens.
Really, he wants to play both sides, he’s expecting to have the chance of another GE soon and more important that Brexit, he wants to blame the Tories for it.
In which Labour will have the arses handed to them on a plate. My mp is good, has been campaigning for a PV all along, but unless he stands as independent my vote will go liberal. No ****ING way will I vote for Corbyn's Labour again, even if it means my MP's seat falling to conservative.
And I’ve talked to many people from commonwealth and other countries that wonder why it is so much harder/expensive for them to be in the UK . My partner works in a care home and the best/friendliest staff in her opinion are from non-EU countries, but we effectively discriminate against them.
blaming the EU for UK government policy, especially ironic when Hostile Envronment May is in power, is exactly the kind of lies & dishonesty that have poisoned the entire debate around brexit
In which Labour will have the arses handed to them on a plate. My mp is good, has been campaigning for a PV all along, but unless he stands as independent my vote will go liberal. No ****ING way will I vote for Corbyn’s Labour again, even if it means my MP’s seat falling to conservative.
Given my previous vows about never again voting for the Lib Dems, and now Corbyn's behaviour over Brexit, at this rate about the only party I'll be able to vote for is the Tories. But I suppose at least they're honest in terms of being up front about how much they're going to **** you sideways with a telegraph pole.
Ms Leadsom said there was a "real possibility" the PM's deal could come back for a vote on Thursday or Friday, adding: "If we could simply get the withdrawal agreement bill under way…once we have done that, once we have left the EU, we can then look at what our future relationship will look like."
I think it would be nice to know what that future relationship might be possible BEFORE leaving. You know, burning bridges/boats and all that.
“If we could simply get the withdrawal agreement bill under way…once we have done that, once we have left the EU, we can then look at what our future relationship will look like.”
I refer my honourable friend to the answer I gave earlier (to mefty) on the issue of separating the WA and the PD.
Given my previous vows about never again voting for the Lib Dems, and now Corbyn’s behaviour over Brexit, at this rate about the only party I’ll be able to vote for is the Tories. But I suppose at least they’re honest in terms of being up front about how much they’re going to **** you sideways with a telegraph pole.
Given the next GE is about 4 years away, I'd bet my balls that Corbyn won't be leading the party by then, the Libs will have a new leader and the leader they had during the disastrous (for them) coalition years is long gone. The Indies may well form a centrist party, with or without the Libs or possibly formed (as they are now) by former members of the Tories and Labour.
Ms Leadsom said there was a “real possibility” the PM’s deal could come back for a vote on Thursday or Friday.
Best of luck with that, unless the indicative votes somehow end in favour of the May Deal that deal is deader than a dead thing. It doesn't matter if the ERG has papped themselves and now suddenly thinks May's deal is good now, they've over-played their hand.
Corbyn and May don't matter so much any more, the Whips are whipless and MPs aren't fearful of their leaders.
If this ends in a long delay (and the end of UKIP in the EU Parliament) or Revoke, ironically it will have been the ERG who caused it, if they'd voted for May's deal, we'd be leaving in 48 hours, but they didn't.
any time anyone uses the word "simply" or "just" or similar, its a red flag
Dominic Cummings - the director of the official Leave Campaign - has been found to be in contempt of Parliament after refusing to appear before the digital culture, media and sport committee who were looking into fake news.
The Commons privileges committee said his decision not to appear constituted "significant interference" to the work of the committee.
It's just the gift that keeps giving...
Corbyn and May don’t matter so much any more, the Whips are whipless and MPs aren’t fearful of their leaders.
Theres a labour party MP on Five Live now backing this up entirely. She has no idea if the party is going to whip its MPs on any vote, and then pointed out that it doesn't matter anyway because everyone will just ignore them anyway. I suppose we could call that 'Corbynite'? 😀
Surely someone has done a Downfall parody of May/ the Cabinet discussing this shambles???
Best of luck with that, unless the indicative votes somehow end in favour of the May Deal that deal is deader than a dead thing
Not really - May will ignore the indicative votes, bring her deal back on April 11, and then it's her deal or no deal, as before. The IV are just running down the clock a bit more.
Not really – May will ignore the indicative votes, bring her deal back on April 11, and then it’s her deal or no deal, as before. The IV are just running down the clock a bit more.
I don't think she's got the backing for that. There's already a bill in place to prevent 'no deal' and she won't have the backing for her deal now the cat is out of the bag.
The fear of UKIP screwed Cameron and the ERG screwed May.
DrJ - Jeremy Hunt let the cat out of the bag yesterday that thats exactly what she plans to do. Brinkmanship of the most reckless degree. Literally holding a gun to everyones head and saying its this or economic armageddon
It goes without saying that she will ignore whatever happens today, just as she's ignored every opinion other than her own and the ERG's from day one
How do you get a civil service job?
It would appear that JRM has somewhat annoyed Leave.eu...
https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1110865263380041728
So JRM's an enemy of the People now, too?
It's hard to keep up
Is Nige still patriotic enough
Nige is now suggesting a long delay to "reset" the process.
He's probably talking more sense than Boris and JRM now… but as for who is "patriotic"… that depends whether you're in with the Beleize & Russia afilliated mob, as far as that twitter account is concerned.
So JRM’s an enemy of the People now, too?
It’s hard to keep up
Is Nige still patriotic enough
Strange - it is almost like the Leave Ultras are a bit unhinged. Who'd have thunk it?
Schadenfreude overload looking at the replies to that tweet
Gardiner does not speak for Labour . This however once again shows how Corbyn is paralysed by his split party.
Jeremy Corbyn is expected to whip Labour MPs to support a Brexit referendum in the indicative votes – but could face a wave of resignations from frontbenchers determined not to back it.
The Guardian understands a delegation of shadow ministers, including known second referendum sceptics Ian Lavery, Jon Trickett and Richard Burgon, held a meeting lasting more than two hours on Tuesday evening with John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor.
I know nothing of Tom Watson but he hasn't annoyed me when he's been on telly.
Any reason I shouldn't want him to lead labour?
His behaviour when Corbyn was first elected as leader was pretty poor - but he has made up for it since in trying to hold the badly fractured party together which I commend him for. I'd rather have Starmer.
I know nothing of Tom Watson but he hasn’t annoyed me when he’s been on telly.
Any reason I shouldn't want him to lead labour?
I guess we don't know much about him as he was still a Junior Minister under Brown He was a Party whip as well). I think made a shrewd move when all the major players were fighting for Leader to go for Dept. Leader.
He's not perfect, but who is? He's no Corbynite, but he wasn't a Blairite either, they had a brief but infamous falling out towards the end of the Blair years, he signed a letter asking Blair to give a date for his departure, Blair's never-ending 'I'm going soon' dying swan act was possibly his second-worst act after the Wars. Labour demanded he withdraw the letter or resign from his Junior Minister post, he resigned and doubled-down on his letter.
He's called for the end on drugs in the past, generally pro-trade, pro-business and pro-Europe.
He's been slated for maxing out his expenses allowance on food in the past (he was a big old unit back in the day) which seems a bit of a fatish slur to me.
Talking of needing statesmen instead of the charlatans we’re landed with
Donald Tusk being just that. Just makes you even more convinced that this is where we need to be, and even sadder that we’re where we are
EU president Donald Tusk warns against ‘betraying’ Remain voters who are ‘not represented by UK parliament’
Could not agree more. EU showing their empathy and class, whereas UK Government is displaying the diametric opposite.
UK Government, right now, has frankly become distasteful and increasingly rotten.
So, motions on the table:
Bill Cash motion. **** all to do with anything. Tries to create a new standing order basically giving the government control of the timetable forever. Shows no understanding of the notion of parliamentary sovereignty.
John Baron. No-deal motion. Enforces no-deal on April 12.
Baron again. Demands unilateral exit from backstop. Unable to specify how that would still be a backstop or how it would work.
Boles Common Market 2.0. Stay in single market through Efta but secure exemption to stay in customs union (difficult, to put it mildly). Domestic rules to enforce EU restrictions on free movement (ie 3-month job requirement) and prevent future govt from overturning the plan.
Will Quince. Meaningless gibberish on respecting the referendum result. No positive contribution whatsoever.
Gareth Snell. Demands 'participation' in customs union.
Angus Brendan MacNeil. Orders got to revoke Article 50 if we get within four days of no-deal Brexit.
George Eustice. Common Market 1.0 (?). Basically also wants to stay in single market via Efta, but without negotiating customs union membership. Much simpler and more deliverable, but would be more painful, esp in Ireland.
Ian Blackford. Devolved parliaments must consent to Brexit. Bit of a waste of time.
Ken Clarke. Join the customs union. Pass domestic legislation to that effect.
Jeremy Corbyn. Labour plan. Something to do with single market, won't say exactly what. As clear as a pub toilet.
Joanna Cherry. Very good on no-deal. If we get to just before exit day, the House gets a vote on whether it ants no no-deal. if it does not, we revoke.
Margaret Beckett. The Kyle amendment. Whatever the deal, there must be a public vote to give consent to it. This is the key People's Vote amendment.
Nicky Morgan. Malthouse Compromise. Blah blah, unicorns. Can't we all just get along in a brotherhood of fairy stories.
Marcus Fysh. Article 24-flavoured unicorns.
Fysh again. More of the same really, but with a welcome addition of carving out protections for citizens' rights.
That's the lot. Some decent stuff in there. Some childish nonsense too. Imagine Speaker will do a pretty good job of weeding one from the other.
UK Government, right now, has frankly become distasteful and increasingly rotten.
It's been like this for a while, but it wasn't really tested until now.
Alyn Smith MEP to the European Parliament: “If we are removed against our will, independence will be our only route back.
I’m asking you to leave a light on, so we can find our way home.”
Donald Tusk and colleagues applauded the speech.
So once again its very clear that iScotland would be looked upon favourably by the EU
I know nothing of Tom Watson but he hasn’t annoyed me when he’s been on telly.
Any reason I shouldn’t want him to lead labour?
He's uncharismatic compared to some, but not without some personality: genuine and solid. Has been seen wading through mud at Glastonbury Festival, which means he has more in common with the average Joe than Rees-Mogg ever will.
Downsides: His stance on the Iraq War may bring him into question, other than that his voting record is fair.
Tweet from the Grauniad - "Downing St spox says the government will whip *against* the business motion for this afternoon’s indicative votes"
I don't understand - are they having another vote on whether they're going to have indicative votes? This makes no sense.
Lammy for Labour leader/PM
Gardiner does not speak for Labour .
Dont bring minor details like the fact on the same show another Labour MP said the opposite and all the signs are that Labour would support it (after all last set of resignations were from the brexiteer side of the party going against the whip). Just let the cultish froth.
Although I have to admire the sheer madness of someone saying they would not vote Labour even if it lets the tories win bearing in mind chances that the tories will be taken over by the ERG fan club.
Has been seen wading through mud at Glastonbury Festival,
I hate to break it to you but Glastonbury aint exact common joe terrority nowadays.
Tweet from the Grauniad – “Downing St spox says the government will whip *against* the business motion for this afternoon’s indicative votes”
I don’t understand – are they having another vote on whether they’re going to have indicative votes? This makes no sense.
I think it's a confirmation thing, when you're dealing with hundreds of years of precedent in a county obsessed with tradition, you get these sorts of things. It's like ticking the box to say you've read the 9000 word terms and conditions signing up for the latest online service you'll use once and instantly forget about.