Mike - Andrew Rawnsley has been saying for a while that certain ministers and former ministers behaviour has been with half an eye on what they assume will be the inevitable ‘Chilcott’ style public inquiry in the aftermath of this shitstorm
Dominic Raab soiling himself and running away, having been Brexit minister for all of ten minutes, being the prime example
Some people may wish to examine their own exit strategies at this point.
With a bit of luck those called to account will include the BBC - Farage's personal TV station.
However, what would be the fallout from the result of the first referendum never having never been implemented? Democracy seemingly a concept that can be either ignored or implemented. The seriousness of what this would mean and how the population might react could dwarf any of the problems that leaving might entail.
You're not wrong, which is why we'd need to have a serious, grown up conversation about the grievances that led people to vote leave, and how they could be addressed from within the framework of remaining in the EU. I'm fairly sure most of them could, well, the ones that don't boil down to "I don't like people who speak funny" could anyways.
Do I rate our politicians as competent enough to do this? No, I don't, so I reckon we're donald ducked, whatever happens.
With a bit of luck those called to account will include the BBC – Farage’s personal TV station.
^^ This.
Their pathetic need for "balance" has gone way beyond what is actually balance and into the realms of clickbait and the need to be seen as PC.
So you can interview an astronaut but "for balance" there has to be a Flat Earther there too. The latest climate change report is released and as well as an emminent scientist who has been studying the subject for decades, they'll bring on someone who once watched a YouTube video on chemtrails and it's all a hoax.
It long ago went from being about journalism and descended into shouty vox-pop interviews, 30 second clips and a battle for ratings which meant needing to be controversial to get the viewing figures.
The seriousness of what this would mean and how the population might react could dwarf any of the problems that leaving might entail.
Utter balls
Currently watching Sky. Seems pretty balanced reporting on Brexit in a good way to me. Farage got a few seconds to spout a pretty obvious lie, the demo got good coverage. Tom watson got as many seconds as Corbyn. All good.
Their pathetic need for “balance” has gone way beyond what is actually balance and into the realms of clickbait and the need to be seen as PC.
Balance is a significant problem and challenge in modern media, especially with the hyper partisan internet outlets who are way off the mark, however if you read some of the BBC twitter feeds it's full of leavers complaining the BBC won't tell the truth about how great brexit will be.
But don't start mixing up "the need to be seen to be PC" that is where do: don't behave like dick heads, treat people with respect and try and look beyond gender, race and other factors and listen to what people are saying and challenge what they say not who they are.
And filed under what goes on in the whips room goes online fairly soon
Knowing the consequences of what they were about to do, before the meeting they agreed: “What happens in the whips office stays in the whips office.” One whip told colleagues they felt like crying.
May began with a boilerplate speech imploring her team to do all they could to find a majority for her withdrawal agreement, telling them the country wanted to move on and get the deal over the line so she could focus on her domestic agenda. It was too much for Paul Maynard, one of her senior whips, who spoke first in response.
“I’m sorry, prime minister,” he said. His voice cracking, Maynard, who has a reputation as one of the more courteous parliamentarians, told May: “I find this really difficult because I put a high price on loyalty. This is one of the hardest things I’ve ever had to do, but I’m going to have to say what I’ve got to say.”
In what one colleague described as a highly emotional state, Maynard, who voted Leave, informed the PM in no uncertain terms that her Brexit strategy was doomed. She risked not only failing to deliver on the result of the referendum, but also destroying the Conservative party, Maynard said, according to two sources in the room.
However, what would be the fallout from the result of the first referendum never having never been implemented? Democracy seemingly a concept that can be either ignored or implemented. The seriousness of what this would mean and how t
But no-one knew what the outcome from the referendum was going to be 3 years ago - all they were promised was a "red, white and blue" Brexit not this steaming crock of shit that's been cooked-up for them. We now that this there are various versions including Thereasa's, Norway or Canada or the completely imbecilic "no deal" and of course the option to stay and seek reform. The notion that we should continue to pursue an objective because we'd lose our credibility is moronic, besides that went a long time ago and the whole world is laughing at us now.
The Guardian seem to think that May, in line with what she’s done all along (bow to the ERG) now favours a No Deal crash out to the alien concept of compromise.
So she’s not even going to put it to MV3, she’s just going to stay in the bunker and run down the clock, ignoring everyone other than the headbangers, to the No Deal cliff edge.
As that is the default position, if she really wants to do this, she can, and there’s not a right lot anyone can now do to stop her
As a country we now appear to have a total lunatic at the controls who’s only interest is holding the Tory Party together, no matter what the consequences are for the rest of us. Party before country, every single time!
How the hell did we get to this?!
2 weeks to economic Armageddon and counting...
Complete and utter insanity!
The Guardian seem to think that May, in line with what she’s done all along (bow to the ERG) now favours a No Deal crash out.
Whereas Times & Buzzfeed have her being deposed in order to get something done, rumours be rumouring hard right now but the numbers in action this weekend will galvanise remain and panic leavers even more that they can't let the momentum build on this one.
But how can she be deposed?
There simply aren’t the mechanisms in place to do it.
Our democracy is well and truly broken
Well if you read the Buzzfeed account from the Whips office she has been told that there will be mass walk outs or they will not whip for her. It's a forced resignation situation, in the face of losing a vote of no confidence it will be a stark choice for her.
Bit of a contrast...
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There simply aren’t the mechanisms in place to do it.
Of of course there are. A no confidence vote will do it. But that will require Tory remainers to put country before party, and labour centrists to actually get behind labour policy.
And as our political system has been functioning so well of late...
Have you watched the Johnathan Pie piece? She’s now like HAL in 2001. She’s gone completely rogue and is determined to see this through - deliver Brexit - at whatever cost. And if that means crashing out with no deal, so be it
One things for sure... we’re going to have to buckle our seatbelts for the next couple of weeks. It’s going to be absolute madness in what has now become a totally dysfunctional banana republic
I wonder if we could get her sectioned?
Really glad we made the effort to go to the march. Took a bit longer than expected due to the sheer number of people, but the atmosphere was great. Lots of normal, nice people from a range of walks of life wanting to be heard. Top marks to the band of drums that helped keep the energy up, now trying not to fall asleep on the train home.
... and Daz... it’d help if the Labour leader actually got behind Labour Party policy.
Remember the whole second referendum thing? The one a million people turned up to support? The one that’s apparently Labour Party policy? He was too busy to even acknowledge it today, obviously...
He found a suitable excuse to be as far away from London as possible instead. Morcombe is nice at this time of year though
Really glad we made the effort to go to the march.
Good man
train home.
*Impressed*
Important things to remember:
1) The referendum was not a legally bound vote.
2) Even if it had been, given what's occurred since, there would be a good legal basis to take a second vote under the auspices of miss-representation
Lets face it, even if we had voted in a proper General Election, but it had taken 3 years to actually get the party that was voted for into power, and when they were in, it turned out the elected party were actually all raving lunatics who were hell bent on the total destruction of the Economy, then i suspect we would also be calling for a second vote! 😉
Lets face it, even if we had voted in a proper General Election, but it had taken 3 years to actually get the party that was voted for into power, and when they were in, it turned out the elected party were actually all raving lunatics who were hell bent on the total destruction of the Economy, then i suspect we would also be calling for a second vote!
Isn't that what actually happened?
One for binners, think I found a Corbyn fanatic on twitter
In the most Monty Python Way
https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/1109564330494836736
It's on
Updated
Will Corbyn get the job?
I was at the march today. I can honestly say it was a gathering of some of the nicest souls I’ve encountered.
I’m no Heseltine fan, but I’m still genuinely stunned by his speech. He hit the right tone between statesman and soundbite (some Thatcher references to appease the Daily Mail crowd). In hindsight, he makes our current crop of politicians look like amateurs.
Michael “The Gover” Gove or Jeremy “The c**t” Hunt as a replacement for PM?
God help us
Watched, shared and asking people to watch, shows that brexit is not left of right it's a bigger problem.
It's less of a pool and more of a fetid puddle, to be honest.
So how significant is 2 million marching?
https://twitter.com/peterjukes/status/1109585875346882562
i though the cops didn't publish estimate march sizes any more as it is obviously so politicised?
But they are royally pissed off with the Tories too, due gutting of them via funding cuts.
Watched, shared and asking people to watch, shows that brexit is not left of right it’s a bigger problem.
His previous interviews have been equally impressive and I'm no Tory. It's bigger than party politics. Much bigger. That's why the parties aren't coping.
Well I got the train down today - a 2 hour journey to basically stand in a queue for 2 hours 😂 but glad I went. One thing Brits do better than anybody, and I do mean anybody, is stand in a line! Great atmosphere but man, London needs more public toilets!!
Mega day, so glad we went. 🙂 Much standing around but got to Westminster very late in the day, awesome atmosphere and zero trouble. Top marks. 🙂
flipiddy
Member
I’m no Heseltine fan, but I’m still genuinely stunned by his speech. He hit the right tone between statesman and soundbite (some Thatcher references to appease the Daily Mail crowd). In hindsight, he makes our current crop of politicians look like amateurs.
It's kind of a truism that people who've left power think that's the moment to become a statesman, not while they're in power.
Watched, shared and asking people to watch, shows that brexit is not left of right it’s a bigger problem.
I think this deserves to be seen by far greater numbers than YouTube is displaying at present. It will be a crying shame if it isn’t seen by hundreds of thousands in the coming weeks.
Ultimately if you still think Brexit is a good idea after watching and listening, then there is no changing your mind.
It's the kind of speech that would go down in history as a turning point if it were given by someone ready to become PM.
I mentioned a while back gove would be PM
I shit you not.
If maybot was to do anything to save any chance of that snivelling little shite getting in she could at least revoke A50 and hand the shit sandwich on
That Heseltine speech is the nuts.
That is one absolutely outstanding and motivational speech by Heseltine.
Sadly, nobody with the power to change anything cares.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47683059
If the deal passes next week because of that ^ then democracy is dead for me.
Heseltine shows how our current bunch of politicians really do not measure up to those of a generation ago. I really do not know the answer but this is a really talentless bunch on all sides of the house. there is not many of them could empty sand out of their boots with the instructions written on the sole!
London needs more public toilets!!
No shit. Err.. I mean no kidding. But the Gallileo app is good for finding those that exist 🙂
I think Heseltine’s speech has taken back Churchill and to a certain extent thatcher.
Who will be the new gammon poster boy?
Just heard - Heseltine is scheduled to be interviewed by Andrew Castle
LBC radio 9:30am (ish) Sunday 24 March
Link
Heseltine shows how our current bunch of politicians really do not measure up to those of a generation ago. I really do not know the answer but this is a really talentless bunch on all sides of the house. there is not many of them could empty sand out of their boots with the instructions written on the sole!
Initially I did not listen to his speech, only now because everyone is praising it and him. Let’s not forget who he is and what he has been a part of. So he says a few things we want to hear, amidst mainly platitudes, I’m not sure there was much in that speech. It certainly wasn’t great imho. The very notion that Heseltine is on the side of the people is so topsy turvy, in a time when it feels we’ve all ended up in Wonderland, that my head is spinning.
The very notion that Heseltine is on the side of the people is so topsy turvy, in a time when it feels we’ve all ended up in Wonderland, that my head is spinning.
won't be long before we are looking back on thatcher with fondness for more competent times...
Good speech by Heseltine. In times gone by, that wouldn’t have stood out as much as now, but now we have dogmatists contorting themselves and lying to themselves and ultimately sounding stupid, that was a breath of fresh air.
Did anyone else think the bloke in hi-viz was actually a gillet jaune in slight disguise and was about to poison-tipped umbrella him?
As above ,look at his record,a "compassionate Tory wet" who still think he knows what's best for the oiks.That Heseltine speech is absolute pants! 1/10 for historical accuracy.
I think you'll find the post WW2 devastion in Europe and it's impact,the Marshall plan,the formation of NATO,the perceived common threat of the USSR/Cold War and the military hegemony of the USA are the primary reasons why there has been peace in Europe.FFS "Churchill would be....blah blah blah" and a bit of remainer rabble rousing at the end.I think some on here have lost what little objectivity they had.
Actually, Churchill’s vision was a “United States of Europe” as a facilitator of peace and stability. I’d say on that front it has succeeded in his vision.
You’re right, other elements have played their part, but I strongly disagree in your analysis of historical innacuracy.
Strong speech (and I am not easily impressed). The man speaks the truth.
I think you’ll find the post WW2 devastion in Europe and it’s impact,the Marshall plan,the formation of NATO,the perceived common threat of the USSR/Cold War and the military hegemony of the USA are the primary reasons why there has been peace in Europe.
These helped, but Europe as EEC or EU etc was central to it.
Heseltine's speech was particularly good and surprisingly well received in Parliament Sq yesterday.
I thought Caroline Lucas was better and her speech was better received IMO. Nicola Sturgeon couldn't help herself with mentioning her particular political dogma when it wasn't topic of the moment. I thought most of the political speakers kept party politic's to a minimum.
I find it very interesting and revealing that you use the term ‘compassionate’ as an insult.
I think you’ll find the post WW2 devastion in Europe and it’s impact,the Marshall plan,the formation of NATO,the perceived common threat of the USSR/Cold War and the military hegemony of the USA are the primary reasons why there has been peace in Europe.
Which is pretty much what he was saying.
nick1962 - I suspect Farage made a speech more to your taste yesterday - 'No more Mr Nice guy' - very impressive and jammed packed with historical accuracies... 🙂
BBC reporting that the Maybot has summoned some MPs to Chequers for an emergency summit.
All are the usual suspects - members of the ERG. So once again it looks like the headbangers are the only ones being consulted
Have to say that I actually think Gove might be a good option - although not to many here as they can't see past their hatred of the tories 🙂
I think he was humbled by that Boris thing and has reflected more on the whole brexit mess, witness his call for the Norway option, which is the only sensible option at the moment because no-one has a solution yet for the Irish border issue. Who else in the tories is pedalling that ?
Plus he has a record of actually getting things done, unlike a lot of other politicians.
Theresa May is merely a puppet for the ERG, that’s quite clear for a while from the lack of genuine cross-party communication.
The ERG are simply riding on the coat tails of Conservative party in some kind of parasitic manner, slowly yet surely draining the lifeblood.
Imagine if they formed as a party and stood alone? They know that they would become inconsequential.
I don’t hold much faith the general population will twig that the ERG members couldn’t possibly be further removed from their own interests. It would be wonderful if they prove me wrong.
Have to say that I actually think Gove might be a good option – although not to many here as they can’t see past their hatred of the tories
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Gove
I can see far enough to see his approval of creationist schools, the farce that was the bibles in schools, various other cockups and being nothing but a puppet for his wife at times. An odious backstabber without a hint of a spine.
Plus he has a record of actually getting things done, unlike a lot of other politicians.
And that is why teachers hold a special place in hell for him 🙂
Plus he has a record of actually getting things done, unlike a lot of other politicians.
He got plenty done when he was Education Secretary.
God no. Gove is an incredibly slippery character than turns on his allies and friends. A real-life political Judas.
His wife is a spiteful hate-spreader for the Daily Mail. Just look at her tweets if you need convincing. She is a strong hand in his political manoeuvres and decisions. They are both very chummy with Murdoch.
The information is out there for you to make up your own mind, it’s not fiction I’m peddling.
It would be a mix of Daily Mail and Murdoch by proxy. Like throwing petrol to extinguish the fire.
Have to say that I actually think Gove might be a good option – although not to many here as they can’t see past their hatred of the tories 🙂
If only I wasn’t so small minded.
The ERG are simply riding on the coat tails of Conservative party in some kind of parasitic manner, slowly yet surely draining the lifeblood.
The ERG are the Conservative party. They’re the part of the party who either don’t realise they should keep their inner thoughts to themselves, or really don’t care what the populace think - as however awful they are a short time later someone will come along and say they’ve been humbled! There have been many many examples over the years of all flavour of tories being caught off guard expressing their true feelings. Not that this should be necessary as their policies speak for them loud enough!
I’ll stick to hating them with a passion you cannot begin to imagine.
I think he was humbled by that Boris thing and has reflected more on the whole brexit mess, witness his call for the Norway option
the norway optiom is the worst of all worlds really, all the "issues" that "caused" this fiasco with no say in the process. Better to remain and use the options for FOM/employment rights that are available and have a say and a voice in the EU.
Hmm… even Tory voting teachers hate him, in my experience. He has been standing up for farmers and the environment though, against the rediculously damaging rhetoric of the, er, Leave, er… sorry, there's a contradiction there I can't get past.
The ERG are the Conservative party.
And at any other time would have been chucked out for repeated ignoring of the whip in really important votes - she just can't give up the numbers even if they won't support her
The ERG are the Conservative party. They’re the part of the party who either don’t realise they should keep their inner thoughts to themselves, or really don’t care what the populace think
It certainly seems like that way at this moment in time. I believe that there are still some decent Tory MPs in this parliament, but decent Tories with a backbone are much harder to find.
The ERG are simply riding on the coat tails of Conservative party in some kind of parasitic manner, slowly yet surely draining the lifeblood.
Sort of. They are a disaster capitalist sleeper cell. They could only exist inside the Tories, though, so it is indicative of a lot of the underlying petty nationalist/racist prejudice that many Tories have, they just don’t talk about it unless they know ‘they are among friends’.
Imagine if they formed as a party and stood alone? They know that they would become inconsequential.
That is why it has to be an internally generated coup, a malignant tumour is an apt analogy here.
I don’t hold much faith the general population will twig that the ERG members couldn’t possibly be further removed from their own interests. It would be wonderful if they prove me wrong.
No chance. Like all extremists with a populist front they tap very effectively into a rich seam of not wanting to deal with the complexity of the world and ongoing change. Future too uncertain? We can give you the past, it was better then. Life not panning out for you like you wanted? It is ‘progress’ that is the problem, definitely not you yourself, it was much better in the past before ‘they’ started to come here.
Tempting oversimplification for people who refuse to confront their own failings and want to blame someone else.
although not to many here as they can’t see past their hatred of the tories
So what we really mean is that some tories struggle so see path their love of all things tory to get how other people might feel about him??
No chance. Like all extremists with a populist front they tap very effectively into a rich seam of not wanting to deal with the complexity of the world and ongoing change. Future too uncertain? We can give you the past, it was better then. Life not planning out for you like you wanted? It is ‘progress’ that is the problem, definitely not you yourself, it was much better in the past before ‘they’ started to come here.
Absolutely. So, how to promote positive change? For most MPs this is the harder route. Easier to take the shortcut blame game.
When others are offering a single big "quick fix" (that won't be either quick or a fix) it is very hard to get a purchase on the political mood by suggesting multiple real possible small improvements that can be made.
Realistically it has to come from a ground up grass roots movement, we helped this city, we want to bring these policies to others or better still when people start to demand what others are doing.
Absolutely. So, how to promote positive change? For most MPs this is the harder route. Easier to take the shortcut blame game.
The one word answer is easy.
Education.
But it takes time.
Gove?
F no!
A backstabbing Judas if ever there was one..
Gove is a foul mixture of incompetence, dimness and hubris. An utter vile man.
The point about Heseltine was not that we like the mans politics - I don't but that in a world of political nonentities he stands out because he is not dim nor a liar.
The ERG are no more the Tory party than Militant or Momentum are the Labour party. They are all extremist elements of otherwise main stream parties. Neither group is in touch with the bulk of the electorate or care what they think. They are all selfish and idealogical driven, the ERG for personal wealth, Momentum for personal power.
As for Gove for PM, oh dear....