Of course you lot won’t agree with that, because you want the labour party to stop brexit. The problem with that is that is and never was their policy.
But it should have been.
How many percentage points does Labour have to trail behind the conservatives, after losing voters to the Greens and potentially Tig for you to get that?
Of course you lot won’t agree with that, because you want the labour party to stop brexit. The problem with that is that is and never was their policy.
From June 2016:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36506163
Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn says his passion for remaining in the EU rates at about "seven, or seven and a half" out of 10.
He explained that he wanted to be part of an EU that was about "social cohesion" and "human rights".
Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn says his passion for remaining in the EU rates at about “seven, or seven and a half” out of 10.
He explained that he wanted to be part of an EU that was about “social cohesion” and “human rights”.
That is a bare faced lie on the part of Corbyns. More like 3/10.
OOooo! Looks like Parliament is going for a vote to decide whether or not to hijack brexit. 😀
I hope the current political parties hijack the people's will then see the rise of new political parties.
New era new parties here we come. 😀
The political landscape is changing fast so if they make a wrong move all of them will suffer in the next GE.
That is a bare faced lie on the part of Corbyns. More like 3/10.
Could well be. He is a politician, after all. I just tripped over that video coincidentally about thirty seconds after reading the post I replied to.
so, why don't we have electronic voting in Parliament. This pissing around with division lobbies seems to take 20min/shot. Is it to give a chance for a gentle tap on the shoulder as people walk out?
OOooo! Looks like Parliament is going for a vote to decide whether or not to hijack brexit.
Jeez... are you back?
OOooo! Looks like Parliament is going for a vote to decide whether or not to hijack brexi
I think youll find the brexiteers already voted to do that to brexit already!
why don’t we have electronic voting in Parliament.
I would presume:
1) Probably believed to be too easy to tamper with.
2) Parliament is "we've always done it this way" personified.
If Facebook is to be believed, they're voting on the referendum right now and most of Labour are abstaining.
Random comment: "The people's vote campaign have advised abstaining tonight. Today is not the day to get a second. It's the day parliament seizes control from May. And lays the path to a second."
Slight hijack.
why don’t we have electronic voting in Parliament.
The winner will probably be accused of Russian collusion. 😀
so, why don’t we have electronic voting in Parliament. This pissing around with division lobbies seems to take 20min/shot. Is it to give a chance for a gentle tap on the shoulder as people walk out?
My thoughts exactly. Way too much pi**ing about with archaic tradition. But then you’ve got twerps like Rees-Mogg who campaigned for the parliamentary records to still be kept on velum, when the rest of the World has gone digital.
If Facebook is to be believed, they’re voting on the referendum right now and most of Labour are abstaining.
The indie are reporting that too... seems early..
Lib Dem MP Layla Moran tweets a picture of the empty yes lobby. It looks like its going to be big defeat without Labour.
European Socialists urge Corbyn to Back Remain and Reform?
Good luck with that!
They must have noted what a fine job he did last time out? The passion and enthusiasm for remain?
From the allotment.
And chose to ignore the decades of relentlessly slagging off the EU that preceded it, obviously ?
If anyone is banking on that clown then they’ll be sorely disappointed
Jill Rutter, of the Institute for Government, says that the Wollaston amendment calling for another referendum does not have much hope of passing as Labour have whipped to abstain.
She says it will be more interesting to find out which MPs defy the Labour whip. Many are worried that the idea could be exhausted too early.
Anand Menon, of UK in a Changing Europe, says that it could mean the prime minister might now turn around and say that a new referendum has been defeated in the Commons.
From the BBC, it's a very fine line of an argument both ways and really does come from process rather than anything else - even if it was voted through it could be over ruled by the subsequent votes. Those against really need to get united.
New era new parties here we come.
You want to be careful what you’re wishing for😉
1) Probably believed to be too easy to tamper with
I would think it would be almost impossible to tamper with simply by having a screen with a list of who voted each way that members could look at and check. The numbers are well known and as far as I can see the voting patterns are already recorded
You want to be careful what you’re wish for😉
Let the nature takes its course whatever will be will be. 😀
Right, so the 2nd referendum is off the table, why would the EU grant an extension to A50?
Right, so the 2nd referendum is off the table, why would the EU grant an extension to A50?
It certainly is not, it's also why they didn't want to ask that question today. With Labour abstaining it was not testing the motion.
This is why this is way more complex and nuanced than headlines.
Amendment I is the key one which would allow Parliament to explore it's options freely rather than being directed by May
why would the EU grant an extension to A50?
It isnt off the table. It would only have been if the ban it option was passed. For example you have the Benn amendment which would include it in the list of options and the Labour one which is vaguer but allows for it.
The problem with that is that is and never was their policy.
Agreed. Shame that they pretended to their members that a public confirmation vs Remain vote was also policy. And are still playing that game at times. Untrustworthy. It's turning off those who want Brexit as well. They don't look like a government in waiting.
Referendum with two options remain and remain.
The LP was unelectable pre Corbyn.
some of this stuff is soooooo close. 311-314. I can't imagine having to navigate your way through this
Referendum with two options remain and remain.
Nah, that won't work - 2 Options
1) Remain and apologies to Brexiters that they had their chance but couldn't do it
2) Remain and deport the ****ers
Whenever they have to run off to the lobbies to vote on an amendment I can't help but imagine Mike Reid stood at the door......
Bollocks, that was a big one to loose 312-314
Next Up
E. Labour amendment
Led by Jeremy Corbyn, this notes the rejection by parliament of May’s Brexit plan, and of no deal, and says the government should “provide parliamentary time for this house to find a majority for a different approach”.
J. Bryant amendment
Notes that the guide to parliamentary procedure, Erskine May, states a motion or an amendment which is the same, in substance, as a question which has been decided in the affirmative or negative during the current session may not be brought forward again during that session. If this amendment was passed it could give the Speaker the power to block another vote on May’s deal as it has been voted down twice by parliament already.
I've just spent a good 10 minutes on the BBC website looking at the voting.
My mind has snapped.
What.
The.
Fruit.
Is.
Happening?
Nothing of consequence really. Lots of voting against voting. Time wasting. No referendum. No voting on alternative options. So we end up voting for an extension purely to implement May's Withdrawl Agreement, as the only way to avoid leaving without a deal this month. She'll be happy. The trap works.
Simple answer as I understand it.....
1) We need an extension to avoid a No Deal situation still regardless of last night
2) Until we secure that it's assumed that a flounce could see No Deal being the only option available ie No Extension and no chance to do any of the options like PV.
3) Enough MP's still want to be seen to deliver some kind of Brexit.
4) Anything outside of the Bill as it stands presents another defeat to the PM and could finish her as it would require Cabinet to resign to support asking for an extension as it's not government policy - that is a nuclear option for them.
5/6/7) The Benn amendment to give Indicative votes to parliament could easily come back and pass after an extension is granted or be a condition of that, same with Peoples Votes - they could also be as a condition of accepting an extension.
condition
Stop hoping that the EU will force our MPs into acting… they won't get involved… they will just say… "the UK needs to decide what it wants."
Yes and no, there is process here and I can see the reasons for doing that.
She will try and bring her deal back having been told there is no other deal for the last time. She needs to find 150 votes for that to happen.
We need a vote to get rid of this table.. its a really crap table.
Im almost done with brexit and the utter shit show that it is.
I think i actually want a hard brexit now just to watch everything burn.
Stop hoping that the EU will force our MPs into acting… they won’t get involved… they will just say… “the UK needs to decide what it wants.”
Well the conditions could be time and making a decision. Ie do it or don't that isn't hope that is normal.
Parliament voted against voting on other options.
Parliament voted against a referendum.
Delay is for WA ratification only now.
The EU can see the same UK parliamentary feed that we can. Voting against options now, in the hope they might be made to happen by some outside actors is foolish and cowardly.
Tick. Tock.
Delay is for WA ratification only now.
It's fair to say opinions are divided 😉
I still expect a full on push for PV (at some point probably after) a rejection of her deal (next week)
Time is up.
so remainers still the minority then?
Time is up.
Are you ignoring all the other analysis? It's extension time she can't pass her deal.
so remainers still the minority then?
In what way? In the country? No, In parliament? Probably not.
It’s extension time she can’t pass her deal.
Parliament have voted against extending to seek other withdrawal deals. Parliament has voted against extending for a referendum. We will be extending to implement the current withdrawal arrangement (with minor external tweaks to get ERG/DUP onside to "save Brexit"). Or it's no deal, with no extension. EU countries have been actively preparing, and funding, smaller companies ready for no deal… they won't extend for no deal… they don't need to.
Oooo! Looks like there will be delay ... 😀
To add the BBC are reporting here that Cabinet Ministers are promising time to explore options if MV3 fails or if they don't put it up for a vote as they know it won't get through.
Getting the extension makes it easier to get rid of her deal.
And a majority of 210 to ask for an extension - that is fairly conclusive.
Corbyn announcing that they have been holding talks across the parties and then FFS starts on his own deal before PV.
In what way? In the country? No, In parliament? Probably not.
maybe theyre waiting for some one else then
An extension for what…?
What are "we" telling the EU we want an extension for…?
What are “we” telling the EU we want an extension for…?
Just tell EU as it is i.e. the UK wants delay to decide the best for them and EU just have to take it as it is. How hard can that be?
If they do not wish to give in to UK's demand they can always kick UK out. 😀
To sort our shit out......
At the moment I'd say you seem to be in the minority with your opinion there.
The EU can agree a time scale extension if required.
If her deal dies - very likely then she is done and it needs a full rethink as to how we get a deal through or give up.
The EU sounds amenable to this
After Matt Hancock just gloated that 2nd Ref/PV had been emphatically defeated I think it was completely right to hold it back, it's given the Brexitiers a sound bite they can use
An extension for what…?
What are “we” telling the EU we want an extension for…?
Corbyns up now... Wanting an 2ndRef lol
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1106262851751161856
Better summary (and in the 2 following tweets)
Several cabinet ministers voted a different way to the Prime Minister, - Fox, Williamson and Barclay it's suggested, even tho the voting lists aren't out yet, AND loads of the whips office too!
And.... remember this is also doesn't change the law, it is still, although extremely unlikely, possible that we leave on time, deal or no deal
EU are making positive extension sounds about sorting out EU Election issues
I suspect the EU will agree to an extension, I would hope they try to insist on ref2. It gives May the chance to blame the EU for it (old habits and all that).
It’s in their interest and ours, and as much as Leave doesn’t like it, we’re still EU citizens and they’re looking after our interests as well as the rest of the EU.
Plus, if their intent is for us to stay, then they need to keep remain voters happy.
Euro elections? Loads more UKIP MEPs if so.
Euro elections? Loads more UKIP MEPs if so.
Or options being discussed to simply extend the terms of the current MEP's - examples of when countries join mid term being used there.
Could also be a huge groundswell of remain MEP's elected, public opinion of course is never one sided
Remember the EU is exasperated by May and her crapness is also harming them, so they'd love to see her go down.
Slowly....slowly....one step at a time, but I think the adults are going to spike this Brexit nonsense once and for all (or at least a good ten years). Here’s hoping.
Slowly….slowly….one step at a time,
This does feel like the process, cross them off one at a time. Remove the choices we do not want and you are left with the final decision.
Not a good day for Remain today but there is still plenty to be positive about.
Although Corbyn is the biggest gift in Westminster for the tories and the ERG in particular. When will he start opposing this Gov?
My only conclusion after the last few days fiasco, and so many debates and votes going on and being rejected..
Is this deal that MayBot has outlined (and we still don’t know the details of ) must be pretty good and probably the best outcome.
🤷♂️
But what this fiasco has proven time and again, is this ... MPs are a bunch of self serving ignorant morons who are incapable of standing by any reasonable argument and principle.
Which makes me wonder why we have them, and what do they actually stand for, and what do they do all day?
I think I’m not alone in my thoughts, and on so many occasions they’ve all bee called to task in the public domain. For all to see and critique.
Anyone still Labouring under the hopelessly misguided, painfully naive misapprehension that the labour front bench isn’t enthusiasticly enabling Brexit?
They want Brexit as much as Rees Mogg.
Everyone can see this now. Unless you really are a total *ing idiot!
In this subject we might as well be a one-party state. We essentially are
Our ‘democracy’ is a joke. A total *ing sham. If you’re a labour Corbynite supporter you might as well be a member of the ERG
The whole thing was always a fait accompli
Along with Secret trade agreements. Whodathunk it.
^Sign if you wish.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">If you’re a labour Corbynite supporter you might as well be a member of the ERG</span>
Binners have you ever considered applying to be a Daily Star leader writer?
MPs are a bunch of self serving ignorant morons
Most of them are remainers, yet they voted for A50. That's not self serving. Many probably have business interests that will be harmed by Brexit.
You really are hugely oversimplifying it so that you can have a rant to try and feel better. I'm just as gutted as you but ranting at MPs for not doing what you want is not productive.
When gove is PM
They voted for triggering article 50?
Both party leaders 3 line whipped their MPs for that
One of them wanted to do that the day after the referendum. Guess which one?
But apparently there are a bunch of deluded 6th form, placard-waving quarter-wits who are still deluding themselves he’s not pro-Brexit
If you’re going to defend Corbyn, allow me to introduce you to my Nigerian uncle who has some fantastic investment opportunities you’ll be happy to avail yourselves of. He make you very rich man
Which makes me wonder why we have them, and what do they actually stand for, and what do they do all day
I've thought for a long time that now we have regional gov in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland that Westminster should be downgraded to English regional government and Europe can take over the larger important stuff 😁
In this subject we might as well be a one-party state. We essentially are
Ov course - 2 cheeks of the same arse. If voting changed anything they wouldn't let us do it!
Supporting Corbyn equals supporting Brexit. It doesn't matter hard or soft.
No FOM, border checks etc..
I’ve thought for a long time that now we have regional gov in Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland that Westminster should be downgraded to English regional government and Europe can take over the larger important stuff
3 years ago I would have argued vehemently argued against that. Now it looks very wise.
Ov course – 2 cheeks of the same arse
What an utterly stupid thing to say. There's more to politics than Brexit. This place is becoming binners' Sixth form.
so, why don’t we have electronic voting in Parliament. This pissing around with division lobbies seems to take 20min/shot.
I rather like the theatre of it. DIVISION.......
Anyway I came home after a couple of sherbets so may have misunderstood, but I'm pretty sure Labour abstained on the "no 2nd ref" vote then blow me, Corbyn stands up and announces we need a peoples vote. Was I mistaken?
Was I mistaken?
Back 2nd Ref tonight and it gets tied in with the extension and risk getting no extension. Tonight's aim was solely extension as without it none of the other things are possible.
It's like a 2 legged European football match. Just make sure you don't lose in the first leg, so you can then win it in the second. Get stuffed in the first leg and the second is unsalvageable.
We definitely want a second referendum, but not just now because... Well ... you know.... sfuff
But I’ll definitely call for one next couple of weeks. Honest.
He must think we’ve all just fallen out of a ****ing tree
The People's Vote lot (Alastair Campbell etc) advised to keep the votes seperate ie do not vote on 2nd ref today. Also if there had been a proper vote on a 2nd ref today and it had lost - which was likely - then it would have been more difficult to bring another vote later - Speaker might not select on the grounds that Parly had made a decision.
TIG knew all this and were posturing.
Before I set Binners off ranting at the wall again - whether Corbyn is sincere on 2nd ref of not doesn't mean the above is not true.
Although I'm not convinced it will happen - my view is the most likely scenario to get a second ref is the one I that I shared from the Guardian a couple of weeks ago - Labour agree May's deal on the basis it is put to a 2nd ref against a remain option.
OK ta. I'll pour another glass.
Although I’m not convinced it will happen – my view is the most likely scenario to get a second ref is the one I that I shared from the Guardian a couple of weeks ago – Labour agree May’s deal on the basis it is put to a 2nd ref against a remain option.
I'd have to say that is the sweet spot for me too, but it needs to be done properly - IE have the time to do it and count the result before we implement it - you can't do any of that without an extension.
Shouting at the telly and screaming at the internet won't help this or make it happen better. This takes both an appreciation of the process and the conflicts going on. Corbyn is not helping this process at all, but he is also working through a party who hate him and a very conflicted electorate who are divided with the prospect of fighting an election very soon.
It's coming out that May has been rejecting any prospect of talking or discussing with anyone else for the entire process - yes she plans to run the clock out to win a prize but the rules of law and parliament is doing it's job slowly but to the letter.
Then maybe we can a truthful campaign about what is now the likely outcome if we leave
as opposed to BJ et al making stuff up on the spur of the moment
Having watched him being interviewed just after the results came out I am convinced even he did not forsee a brexit win. He was probably sound bited up with' well the people have spoken and we must accept that', instead he stood around looking dumstruck
Still wouldnt like to bet on the outcome of re-ref though. Never underestimate the group power of stupid.
Back 2nd Ref tonight and it gets tied in with the extension and risk getting no extension.
So, now May gets to ask for the extension she needs, to do with as she pleases, without parliament instructing her how to use it. Trying to tie it to a second ref was a wise move… if you actually want one.
Also if there had been a proper vote on a 2nd ref today and it had lost
There was. It did.
making stuff up
Jobs first Brexit.
Still wouldnt like to bet on the outcome of re-ref though.
Narrow win for the Withdrawl Agreement as it stands has to be the most likely result. Still… WA vs Remain kills no deal, and after that we get what we vote for… and only voting Remain stops the mess from consuming whoever is in government for the next decade… and slowly more people are starting to realise that, so you never know…