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I’ll leave this here. It’s in the news today, but might be relevant to Brexit. People will interpret it differently but perhaps it applies to both sides.
-JFKThose who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable
UKIP got nearly 13% of the vote share in the 2015 GE but only 1 seat (out of 650).I don't blame their supporters for being angry!
Aren't UKIP supporters just in a constant state of incandescent rage about the perceived injustices of the world anyway?
maybe for once they had just cause. maybe if it had been dealt with we wouldn't be in this mess now.
Cougar - Moderator
On the subject of Labour distancing themselves from the entire debacle and dissent in their ranks, did you all see this?
That's my MP, Alison McGovern.
I really rate her, seems a very principled and honest person.
Aren't UKIP supporters just in a constant state of incandescent rage about the perceived injustices of the world anyway?
Indeed, with their idea of injustice being different nationalities being treated the same.
Solo: that was a bit of hit and run. I suspect the cosy lefties in the echo chamber are more concerned for the welfare of people in your situation, than the tories ever will be. But it's hard to be sure if you just vanish into thin air..
"the left" have a number of reasons for wanting out - all fringe elements. There are the ardent outies liky Hoey - deluded like all outies and really in the wrong party. There are those afraid on their xenophobic constituents / want to respect the will of the electorate like Flint and there is the hard left idea that the EU will be a brake on their socialist plans. the vast majority of labour mps are remainers keeping their heads down
Next Solo is going to tell us that an eastern european family got a council house before him . ......
But it's hard to be sure if you just vanish into thin air..
He's in Germany looking for a job.
There was a documentary about that. Jimmy Nail was in it.
Mark Wallace is going to be a popular columnist in the ipaper
That’s certainly proved to be the case in the aftermath of the EU referendum. For a vocal minority of Remain supporters, who got their way on this and other issues for many years, the reality of defeat has proved simply impossible to accept. Rather than adapt to the result, or scrutinise their errors, they’ve jetted off into a twilight zone of EU-themed fancy dress, conspiracy theories, and increasingly unpleasant dismissal of Leave voters as ignorant racists who could help everyone out by simply dying off.
Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/opinion/remainers-cant-cope-losers-eurosceptics-cant-get-used-fact-won/
Yeah the 2nd half of it I 100% agreed with !
It’s hard to be a winner The Cabinet indulges in bouts of in-fighting about how to go about Brexit, which spills out into the street from time to time, as with Boris Johnson’s recent essay. UKIP has collapsed, with Farage attaching himself to the Trump train while the B-team fights over the corpse of his People’s Army. Out in the country, some Leave voters fear that Theresa May’s Florence speech foreshadows a betrayal of the 17.4 million who voted to take back control
Had lunch with a load of students today, a lot of them (the vocal ones at least) felt robbed by Brexit I think they fall into that conservativehome writers ^^^ description posted by mefty, it's a generation the Tories just don't seem to 'get'
As Kimberd points out above, these young people are the new power base. Lots did not vote in the referendum but voted in the GE, they are the ones that will win the next election for momentum/Jeremy - they don't have a clue about Tony Ben or Tony Blair for that matter
Do they know who Fatcha was?
Ok so not the three Ms yet but at least May is meeting Tusk today. Let's hope some sense will prevail and proper negotiations begin.
THM - optimism over experience?
Mefty - you need to read and reflect on the piece you posted. It’s difficult to campaign against something you don’t accept happened. Actually I’d suggest that acceptance is a prerequisite for organising and campaigning against something. I quite like the piece - it made me laugh - but it’s essentially froth. Unfortunately it is typical of so much of the coverage and too much of the rest of the coverage is venom.
UKIP got nearly 13% of the vote share in the 2015 GE but only 1 seat (out of 650).
I don't blame their supporters for being angry!
Welcome to the world of the liberal or green.
teamhurtmore - Member
Do they know who Fatcha was?
Probably only from that meme of her in the EU jumper!
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They are undergrads that couldn't have voted in ref but could've in GE, also these were qmul students from east London which has intake from all the diverse backgrounds of the area, rather than the stereotypical home counties gap year types
you need to read and reflect on the piece you posted
Perhaps you should read my post, before commenting on someone's need for reflection.
You can see the generational gap in here very easily, wait for a house price thread or one about tuition fee's. I'm not sure most people over 40 owning a home can comprehend what being young now means, you have to look beyond the smart phones and livin for today, the jump to where you are now is so big it's hardly worth considering. Take away the chances and opportunities and you have bigger problems, a recession will condemn and other generation to the scrap heap.
Yeah the house price thing is a much bigger issue for the good than being in or out of Europe tbf.
The thing is Brexit is all the govs bothered about & focusing on for the next decade?
mefty - Member
you need to read and reflect on the piece you posted
Perhaps you should read my post, before commenting on someone's need for reflection.
I did. I felt... underwhelmed
I also read your link. Frothy and derivative, amusing but ultimately not exactly high quality incisive journalism. Can’t imagine anyone getting worked up either way about it really.
I have seasoned colleagues who yet to see a rate rise in their professional lives 😯
Makes me feel v old!!
Yep, I work with people who seem to think interest rates have always been bugger all!..they're going to get a shock when they start creeping up, I've just locked myself into a fairly cheap 5 year fixed term due to the financial uncertainties over Brexit...lots of my colleagues are on tracker deals/variable rates and to add to the uncertainty most are on interest only mortgages...with cars and other things bought when taking out the mortgage...its easy to blame politicians and bankers for financial ills but individuals are being reckless with debt and it's on them that they don't follow the news and make themselves a little more secure.
With regard to buying a house, when I lived in the South East renting was more expensive than a mortgage, what first time buyers struggled with was getting a deposit together...it can be done, it's not easy and it does require sacrifices in other parts of your life...i got a deposit together by moving into a house share/room rental as opposed to renting a whole flat/house and worked all the overtime I could get, 18 months later I had the deposit I needed....i pretty much gave up on going out with friends and put myself forward to work bank holidays, Christmas, New Year etc...it was crap but I got a house at the end of it.
I'm happy to sympathise with people struggling to get on the property ladder if they're doing all they can...seemingly though at my work the 'kids' moaning about house prices all drive nice cars, have the latest iPhone, go on holiday each year etc...cut back on that and there's your deposit...owning property isn't a right it's a choice/privilege that you have to work for.
I also struggle to sympathise when people won't consider moving away from the South East when their job is transferable to a part of the country where house prices are more sensible...again there seems to be an attitude of entitlement with regards living in an expensive area!...we wanted privacy and some land, we weren't going to get it in the South East on an NHS salary, I could've spent the rest of my days moaning about how unfair things are but instead I looked around the country, saw the kind of house I wanted in our budget and moved 200 miles away to get it...it can be a pain not being close to family and visiting friends now entails a weekend stopover but it's worth it and we've made new friends where we are now.
If you're earning an average UK salary (25k?) and trying to buy in London then forget it, that's life...look to move jobs first and then relocate somewhere cheaper and buy there instead...or accept that you'll be renting in London forever...yes my parents generation had it easier with regard property prices but things change and you adapt to the economy/situation you're in.
A lot of millennials seem to want to look for blame everywhere while waiting for someone else to remedy the situation for them...Barry Sheene famously said: "don't wait for your ship to come in, swim out and bloody get it"... there seems to be a lack of that attitude at the moment.
With regard to buying a house, when I lived in the South East renting was more expensive than a mortgage, what first time buyers struggled with was getting a deposit together...it can be done, it's not easy and it does require sacrifices in other parts of your life...i got a deposit together by moving into a house share/room rental as opposed to renting a whole flat/house and worked all the overtime I could get, 18 months later I had the deposit I needed....i pretty much gave up on going out with friends and put myself forward to work bank holidays, Christmas, New Year etc...it was crap but I got a house at the end of it.
And still house prices are increasing beyond earnings so it just got harder. Given some house prices even a 10% deposit is 15-20k and many people earn not much more than 20k it's sounding like living cheap for 18 months might not be representative now.
These people leaving Uni are also there owing 15-20k of just fee debts.
If you're earning an average UK salary (25k?) and trying to buy in London then forget it, that's life...look to move jobs first and then relocate somewhere cheaper and buy there instead.
People go where the jobs are mostly.
A lot of millennials seem to want to look for blame everywhere while waiting for someone else to remedy the situation for them...Barry Sheene famously said: "don't wait for your ship to come in, swim out and bloody get it"... there seems to be a lack of that attitude at the moment.
Plenty of people doing that and there will be a point where saying that will get you lamped in a couple of years. When people are working hard, seeing their money disappear as fuel, food and housing goes up faster than any pay rises (cuts) they get.
When people have watched a whole generation boast about how much their house has made, the cheap credit that got them there and the growing economy seeing all that taken away is a shock but it doesn't mean they are not working hard.
Also remember part of this cost increase is due to the turmoil Brexit has caused.
If you don't think people have a reason to be angry then watch out.
18 months later I had the deposit I needed
Just out of interest, what proportion of your take-home were you actually saving and what were you paying in rent? It's been tough for a while but it's getting much tougher!
Given some house prices even a 10% deposit is 15-20k
[url= https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-house-price-index-summary-july-2017/uk-house-price-index-summary-july-2017 ]Average house price in England is currently at £243,220[/url] (July HPI figures).
If you're earning an average UK salary (25k?) and trying to buy in London then forget it, that's life...
Agreed. In London the average is £488,729 😯
Barry Sheene's dad imported racing motorbikes, he didn't have to swim too far for his.
Had lunch with a load of students today, a lot of them (the vocal ones at least) felt robbed by Brexit I think they fall into that conservativehome writers ^^^ description posted by mefty, it's a generation the Tories just don't seem to 'get'
maybe you should accept that Brexit is not a Tory issue - there was a significant labour vote for Brexit and also a significant number of labour voters feel betrayed by Corbyn as he 'appears' to be backing a soft Brexit.
And there were some brexit voters amongst the young as well...
The
s Kimberd points out above, these young people are the new power base. Lots did not vote in the referendum but voted in the GE, they are the ones that will win the next election for momentum/Jeremy - they don't have a clue about Tony Ben or Tony Blair for that matter
and they are going to feel doubly hacked off if JC gets his way and has a hard brexit.
maybe you should accept that Brexit is not a Tory issue
The appalling execution of Brexit is a Tory issue. Glib, false, phrases like "citizen of nowhere" and "never felt truly at home in the EU" are ****ing Tory issues!
The referendum itself was a tory issue.
It's abso-*ing-lutely a Tory issue. Pure and simple.
Dave promised a referendum for one reason, and one reason only... to out-UKIP UKIP. It was a short-sighted piece of political expediency done purely to placate his own rabid backbenchers.
If those Tory backbenchers weren't so absolutely unhinged, or Dave hadn't been so monumentally arrogant, then this whole mess would never have happened.
And since the referendum, the factional in-fighting within the Tory party has taken absolute precedence over everything.
Next week is going to be the most horrific example of fiddling while Rome burns. The clock is ticking away, and all these shower of *s care about is getting one over on each other
Its absolutely tragic. In decades to come, people will look back at this period in our countries history in disbelief. Its a textbook example of how the narrow, short-term interests of an uncaring, self-absorbed cabal can usher in devastating consequences for everyone else
^^ /thread
Don't worry, at current trends the execution of Brexshit will be a labour issue. Sir KS aside, we will be in REAL trouble then
Yes that's great THM, what would we do without you to remind us how much worse Labour would be.
Well its one off two parties who are going to deliver Brexshit. You decide..
As I have said before, my preference would be for Starmer and Hammknd and their ilk to work TOGETHER but it won't happen
The musketeers may be bad, but FFS have you seen the alternative?
I suspect a Labour managed Brexit, if it came to that, would be less antagonistic and smoother. They're capable of dialogue and internationalism, the ToryKIP aren't.
Suppressing dialogue you mean
International - protectionism, dislike of foreign ownerhips etc
For a moment, I thought you might have been serious 😉
Give labour a bit more time and it will come round to staying in the EU (at least materially, if not technically). They are almost there already.
Then THM might have to decide whether his distaste for Labour exceeds his profound aversion to brexit.
Good job you or Matt didn't say democratic then 😀
Democratic what? If Labour win an election on a single market/anti-brexit/similar platform then of course that overturns the ref, just as the last election overturned the previous tory commitment to staying in the single market (well it would have done, only they didn't actually win).
The Troy commitment was to honour the result as inconvenient as that proved to be for most of us
We shall see won't we - labour are a split on Brexshit as the Tories but with a different type of nutter. Lest see what they campaign on - last time it was in a "keep you head down and don't mention Brexshit card." Will they be brave enough to have the courage of their conviction - Corbyn hates Europe after all
wow did THM just accuse people of suppressing dialogue :)[img] 
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Just need to add the remoaner subtitle 😉
It's abso-****ing-lutely a Tory issue. Pure and simple.
but so many of the labour faithful didn't have to vote for it...
So you're saying that Dave should have ignored his mandate to have a referendum, so ignoring democracy?
so ignoring democracy?
It's only democracy if non-racists alone get to vote