[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Odd that that came from a politician then?

Inconvenient truths and all that. Doesn't sound that they are keen on any boycotting type ideas....but who would be?

In contrast, we sold fear that was over egged

Go back and look at the start of this thread, many of the remain posts were all about the positives of being in the EU, travel, trade, cooperation etc etc

The people over egging the fear were the idiots ...Cameron - Osborne etc

Well there are intelligent remainers here kimbers obviously

I thought we were getting cake & unicorns?

you will, if only you would get behind it.

Doesn't sound that they are keen on any boycotting type ideas

You'fe misunderstood as you always do when you don't like ideas.

I'mm suggesting British people boycott anything even vaguely connected to Brexit. And more generally draw in spending and save for hard times which asa bonus may result in an economic downturn that will sabotage Brexit.

Your correct I don't like the idea. It's counter productive and irrational.

THM - Jamba became a caricature of himself and adopted progressively more extreme positions, I presume to wind folk up. Look at his position a year or so ago and you’ll see how it’s changed. Folk did get wound up and reacted.
Now in Jamba’s position would I have done any different? I don’t know. But it did become fairly predictable.
Calling the Guardian and Independent our as click bait while extolling the virtues of order/order for example was pretty silly.
At the end of the day though, he’s told me why he favours Brexit and I understand it - though I still think it’s a bit of a silly reason - but he’s entitled to be silly if he wants and it’s not racism.
And he seems a decent guy other than his silly views on Brexit - bit of a know it all but I’m in a glasshouse myself there. 😉

I see jamba has de-camped to the latest religion thread. That should fit his faith-based arguments.

teamhurtmore - Member
Your correct I don't like the idea. It's counter productive and irrational.

Well Tim Martin is recommending it so I can’t help but agree it’s irrational.

[quote=slowoldman ]I see jamba has de-camped to the latest religion thread. That should fit his faith-based arguments.

How is his truth quotient?

Jambas was understandibly pissed off by the constant abuse

Something you keep banging on about, and have failed to produce any evidence of every time you're asked. Citation required. Get on with it.

Jambafact, Jambafact, ad nauseam, he is hardly alone in posting misguided analysis on here but yet he was constantly harangued - if he became belligerent as result it is hardly a surprise. Anyway, good for him, there is a lot more to life than posting on here.

It's not "misguided analysis", it's "making shit up and repeating it even in the face of being corrected". Jambafact isn't abuse, it's a statement of the obvious, he is a fantasist. I've never worked out for sure if he's deliberately trying to mislead, trolling, or mentally ill- I started assuming it was the former, moved on to the middle when he stopped trying to be convincing, but gradually I suspected it's the latter and he can't help himself- so I stopped engaging with him mostly as I don't think it's helpful, for him or for anyone else.

But whatever the motivation he is essentially a vandal, like Chewkw.

THM the problem with a lot of the rhetoric as delivered by Tim Wetherspoon and many more stands no scrutiny- his call for WTO and zero import duty is simply down to his desire to lower his happy meal costs. When it was pointed out by Andrew Neil that it would destroy the supply chain he just mumbled something about we can stand 3 to 6 months.

On Jamba - I have said this before. While he posted some real deluded twaddle he is always polite and I think some of the responses he got went too far. Play the ball not the man

he is always polite

I'm not sure that vile falsehoods uttered in measured tones are much of an improvement on other modes of expression.

Well said mefty

NW - "vandal" claims are a far superior form of "making shit up" bravo

Oldman- it's very true that most of the Brexshit rhetoric does not stand up to scrutiny which makes our failing to counter it all the more galling. But the remoan BS is as bad if not worse - see ^ for loads of example. Extreme exaggeration, false facts and misguided attempts to pin any bad news on [s]the EU[/s] brexshit. And that's before all the "it was only advisory, it's not fair, we lost" waffle. An we thought you couldn't getting lower than the trash of the Indy debate for making stuff up...brexshit limbo, the new sport

Still off to Florence - leather pants, jazzy shoes and a heavy necklace?? Then "bespoke, transition, cash...and can we stop farting about and get on with the proper negotiations now." Keep the news hounds busy at least

Vile? Thats a classic example. Its only words if deluded and blinkered. Nowt vile unlike some other posters on both sides

Still off to Florence - leather pants, jazzy shoes and a heavy necklace?? Then "bespoke, transition, cash...and can we stop farting about and get on with the proper negotiations now." Keep the news hounds busy at least

True

Once merkel is back on the hot seat, the proper meetings can begin - the three Ms that actually matter

Merkel - May meeting already agreed

If we think our side has a tough job, imagine being the merkel or macron? Shit, were screwed if the UK walks away and we are screwed if we pander to their wishes. And that's before we sort out the bloody mess with the €. At least macron has an expanding domestic economy to keep the punters happy

This is the problem, Brexiters (&the press) sold Brexit on fantasy, the Tories too scared to disavow it have carried on

And for the small faction of the Tory who really wanted this extreme situation it is all going perfectly to plan. They convinced just enough people to vote leave. The talks are going terrible, they want us to crash out so that massive amounts of money can be made by a narrow band if we'll positioned people who can make a lot of money from the chaos. Plus after the chaos they will be able to rebuild the UK as a minimum government state that makes the us look socialist.

If we think our side has a tough job, imagine being the merkel or macron?

I thipught it was just the swivel-eyed brexiteer loons who suffered under the delusion that brexit was a significant issue to anyone much outside the UK

Now after being in Germany for a month I've had precisely two people raise the issue in conversation. One of them was wondering how much damage it would do to the UK's European research collaboration, and one was wondering how on earth we could make it work with all the joint bodies that we are supposedly pulling out of.

I wish I had an optimistic answer to either of them. Neither of them were remotely concerned about how it would affect them, it hadn't crossed their minds. A mixture of sadness and bemusement would be closer to the mark.

No it's sensible people too. Actually you don't even need to be sensible since it's stating the obvious

Vile?

Vile indeed. I refer you to the many Israel/Palestine threads for a wealth of examples,

Tory leaders and judgement.

Theresa “Maybot” May, last heard protesting in the national press that she wasn’t robotic, has chosen a city for her big speech that in large number of people’s minds is part of a band’s name.

“Florence and the May-chine” as tomorrow’s headline anyone?

The speech won’t be heard for the laughter.

Judgement.

“Florence and the May-chine” as tomorrow’s headline anyone?

I’m going to copy that and pretend I made it up 🙂

Hey I said that a few pages back!

There’s a rich seam to be mined guys. It’s friday so we can always keep it lighthearted.

“UK PM spends time at the OOF-izi”

Sounds like May's speech will be "it's not us it's you".

To which the EU's response will be "it's you that's leaving, it's you that triggered A50 with no plan, you sort it out".

Sad day for our country, now an item of ridicule for our neighbours and ex-friends, and in the wider world.

The damage we do - for nothing, there is no upside here - will not be forgotten, our kids will have to live with this for decades.

Such a waste.

One of them was wondering how much damage it would do to the UK's European research collaboration

It wont destroy us overnight, the loss of the EMA is a big blow for pharma & drug development, and translational medicine. We will still be paying in to quite a few schemes (according to white paper) but loose input & voting rights on world's biggest collaborative science grant awarding, our research is good enough that we should still win the majority of funding (assuming politics isn't a factor) . Physics is more dependent on EU money than most, so will suffer more, ironically the EU is a major funder of (non-commercial) UK archaeology, so there is real worry that, based on the govs track record, our heritage is set to lose out.
Biggest damage will probably be through loss of FOM, which has been brilliant for research and studying as well as the general anti-immigrant & anti-EU hostility that is our new normal.

I really am amazed that so many think this is still a good idea

I am more amazed that so many people are STILL in denial

May will move the agenda forward slowly. The soft concessions are all happening on both sides. Progress, albeit it glacial. If we could cut out the BS things might progress more effectively - but that's a long shot especially with our media

The soft concessions are all happening on both sides.

List please, I've yet to see anything I'd call a concession.

I am more amazed that so many people are STILL in denial

Let's call it disbelief.

Some Brexiteer cockwomble was on the radio this morning being asked how this border business was actually going to work in Ireland

It seems like David Davis's original proposal involving fairies and magic is still the only option on the table

Let's call it justified scepticism.

If there was a cunning plan, don't you think someone would have suggested it yet?

teamhurtmore - Member
I am more amazed that so many people are STILL in denial

May will move the agenda forward slowly. The soft concessions are all happening on both sides. Progress, albeit it glacial. If we could cut out the BS things might progress more effectively - but that's a long shot especially with our media

I don’t see denial, THM, I see folk accepting it’s going to happen but it will be worse in the future than the past.
Even with a good negotiation and a good deal that’s probably still true.
How much worse? Well it’s hard to say. Will the world end? No. Does it increase the probability of lost growth or even recession? Yes. Does it harm one of the foundations of the longest period of peace in Western European history? Yes to some extent - but do we need that foundation anymore or are we so tied together economically that the job is done? Hmmm - we’ll see.

It’s happening. It probably shouldn’t be, but lemmings love cliffs. The downside may be minimal (though it may not be). There is no appreciable upside.

By the way is your name Neville? There is a reason for asking.

It seems like David Davis's original proposal involving fairies and magic is still the only option on the table

Beware. If you know your folklore, you’ll know the Scots and Irish fairies are in league.

Dominic (350m) Cummings been having one of his epic Twitter rants, over how Davis is sinking Brexit through cluelessness.

It's [u]definitely[/u] not his own fault that is all going tits up though 😉

I like this one

8/ Good heuristic: whenever u catch yourself thinking 'Govt can't be that crap', invert your perspective & you'll usually be more accurate

Dominic Cummings?

Our own personal low-rent Steve Bannon. You take one look at his unhinged ramblings and you wonder how on earth he ended up being listened to by people in Govenment.

But then you look at the people in government.....

We truly are ****ed!

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Until people lose their jobs and see personally things turn bad brexit will be ignored.

How many people actually care, a third if that, most people are more concerned by paying the bills and x-factor. You have a small number of people who think brexit is good and a small number who think it is bad.

There is a reason why referendums should never happen and it is simply because most people don't care enough to find out the facts. Hence why £350M matters, it sounds alot but is not, regardless of whether it is true or not.

So - comparing Brexit ref and Scottish Indyref:

Would it have been harder or easier for Scotland to leave the UK than the UK to leave the EU? In terms of actually unpicking the various arrangements, rather than economic future?

Well one big difference is there is no cliff-edge. It would have been (theoretically) possible to build up the scottish capabilities over time, separating from the rest of the UK in a gradual process (which arguably has already been underway for many years).

Whereas saying "We'll be fully separate in 2 years and duplicate all of the functions that we currently borrow from the EU" is basically asking the impossible. Especially now it's 18 months and none of this work has even started.