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So far we've had all leave voters are:
I don't think anyone's said [i]all [/i]leavers are, and if they have then they're making a rash generalisation as it's clearly not true.
You've demonstrably got the lion's share of those demographics, though.
Despite how you all voted in the EU referendum last year there is no way on gods earth that the majority of British people would accept this.
Meanwhile, over in the UK this week, that's more or exactly what just happened.
The "Great Repeal Bill" handed power to the government to make up any laws they want, including amending the Bill itself, without further Opposition interference. The really scary thing is this is just what they tried to pull earlier on with the lengthy court battle. Why do they want absolute power, and what are they going to do with it? Literally the only thing stopping the government doing what hell they want now is the EU. Er, oh.
So where is this public uprising? Oh yeah, the bulk of the great unwashed won't have noticed, because the glaring difference between giving more power to the EU and giving more power to the Tories is that only one of them causes fury to erupt in two-inch high letters on the front of the Express.
Democracy in the UK died this week, because of Brexit. Which would be ironic if it wasn't so ****ing tragic.
You've demonstrably got the lion's share of those demographics, though.
on this thread? - that's bs.
Why do they want absolute power, and what are they going to do with it?
practicality and speed - there's a shed load of laws to bring across and many of them also have little relevance now - such as referring to institutions that are not applicable.
To scrutinise all the laws being brought over is clearly unneccessary, and to scrutinise all the changes required would also take too long.
If the tories do make innappropriate changes then they will just be providing ammunition for labour to get in at the next GE - which nobody (sane) wants.
So, we'll give them the power because we think they won't do anything silly with it because that might give the opposition a chance in the election. And nobody sane wants that.
Such naivety. Bless.
So far we've had all leave voters are:
Stupid
Racist
Xenophobic
Selfish
No. Quit with the self-victimisation.
What's been said is along the lines of "racists voted leave and helped it win" (reasonable, given the small margin), or "leave was a stupid vote".
Sometimes smart people make a mistake and do dumb things. Counts for all of us here I think.
That's very different to "all leave voters are stupid" or "all leave voters are racist", which is plainly not true.
I think the rabid nature of a few remainers, plus their overall majority has put off most of the leave voters from posting, and I can't blame them.
One nutcase even said he wanted the UK to fail to teach the leavers a lesson.
That's right, let's punish a whole population for the actions of a minority.
Ghastly, horrid opinions.
Quit with the self-victimisation.
As I've mentioned before, the population of this thread is too entrenched and too us vs them to discuss anything rationally.
And as I've repeatedly mentioned before, I voted to remain. 💡
And this will really blow your away; I changed my mind from leave!
Boom! 😆
Clearly a nutter (or perhaps lives abroad, or is otherwise protected from any damage). Sociopath? Or perhaps they said something slightly different. Pull up the quote so they can explain what they meant.One nutcase even said he wanted the UK to fail to teach the leavers a lesson.
Did you see the survey that said that many Leave voters were happy for the population as a whole to suffer as we leave the EU? Many were even prepared to accept family members losing their livelihoods. And we're only leaving because a minority of the population wish to. And even a smaller minority are in the "Leave at any cost, without a deal" bracket.That's right, let's punish a whole population for the actions of a minority.
Don't be silly.It will evolve, it has to. Leavers are always stating that the big powerful countries are moulding it to what they want. Well, if it diverges from what their people can support, they will change it.
Juncker gave a speech on what exactly the Commissions plans are for the EU, it's federal there is now no semblance of denial. It is why many leave voters voted to leave, despite all the remain economic doom and gloom rhetoric people in the main voted leave instinctively. It is remain voters that come across as delusional and ideological. I don't want the EU to fail, but I'd rather it fail than become a federal state against the will of it's peoples.
I'd rather it fail than become a federal state against the will of it's peoples.
They sure as hell won't make the mistake of giving the people any chance to express their will ever again!
They sure as hell won't make the mistake of giving the people any chance to express their will ever again!
Indeed and we all know where that will lead.
Did you see the survey that said that many Leave voters were happy for the population as a whole so suffer as we leave the EU?
yes, that is because they were voting for the principal that we shouldn't be part of a federal Europe and should have more control over our own destiny, whereas most remainers seem to be shortermist and looking at how it's going to affect them financially.
I dunno, most EU counties have regular elections, and hold referendums far more often than we do. And then there are the MEPs… lots of chances for people to express their will as to how Europe develops. Well, unless you happen to be a British citizen, and then you'll get no say in it at all. Or have I missed the point? Are you perhaps frustrated that we won't get to "express our will" about the exit deal and the manner of our leaving?They sure as hell won't make the mistake of giving the people any chance to express their will ever again!
I don't think anyone's said all leavers are, and if they have then they're making a rash generalisation as it's clearly not true.
And you know what you SHOULD do, but don't. The post referred to was obvious in its intent and direction
The "Great Repeal Bill" handed power to the government to make up any laws they want,
No it didn't
Why do they want absolute power, and what are they going to do with it?
They don't. The details are in the bill. Anyone can read why they want the additional powers and what they are and are not going to do with it.
Democracy in the UK died this week, because of Brexit.
Why have remoaners taken the baton from the Brexshiteers to massively exaggerate everything?
Democracy hasn't died at all
people in the main voted leave instinctively
As opposed to rationally?
It is remain voters that come across as delusional and ideological.
Doesn't that run counter to your immediately previous line about Brexies voting on instinct? I'd say that was fairly delusional and ideological.
Why is a single European state bad? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but the only reason you offer is that you're ideologically against it.
principal that we shouldn't be part of a federal Europe
Yep. Ideology. You can't argue with ideology.
THM - has democracy died? Probably not. But if I was trying to restrict democracy and slowly chip away at it then the things we've seen from "enemies of the people" headlines to altering the membership of select committees, to establishing a common enemy (in the press at least) are the things you'd expect to see.
Now that is not the same thing as saying British democracy is being killed off, but British democracy is certainly not flourishing is it.
So who is it that is happy for the population as a whole to be punished?yes, that is because they were voting for the principal that we shouldn't be part of a federal Europe and should have more control over our own destiny, whereas most remainers seem to be shortermist and looking at how it's going to affect them financially.
Plenty of "remainers" in this thread have made it clear they are doing very nicely thank you, but still concerned about Brexit fallout for others (and not just short term, it's the younger generation that many feel will have their life chances reduced the most by all this).
sbob: One nutcase even said he wanted the UK to fail to teach the leavers a lesson.
https://imgur.com/gallery/CcK8W
As opposed to rationally?
Nothing wrong with using instinct.
Doesn't that run counter to your immediately previous line about Brexies voting on instinct? I'd say that was fairly delusional and ideological.Why is a single European state bad? Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but the only reason you offer is that you're ideologically against it.
I'm not ideologically opposed to a European superstate if that's what the people of Europe really want the evidence however points to that not really being the case.
-redacted, not worth it.
Careful, it's not just losers who to remove your children's rights … far from it.
Juncker gave a speech on what exactly the Commissions plans are for the EU, it's federal there is now no semblance of denial.
So how do you feel the member states will react to that?
kelvin not all leave voters are *** but the *** vote helped win it.
TurnerGuy - if it helps since Brexit my income has risen quite nicely. There's probably a loose connection, but loose.
I'm worried not about my finances in the short term, but long term I am worried about the financial future of the UK and the opportunities for our children which will be diminished.
Indeed, you should be more worried about the leaders (or misleaders ;)) who are intent on turning the UK into a low tax, low regulation economy (aka, low worker's rights, low safety and food standards). Chlorinated chicken is just the tip of that iceberg.
They don't. The details are in the bill. Anyone can read why they want the additional powers and what they are and are not going to do with it.
Did you read the bill THM? Well,
Clause 7(4): "Regulations under this section may make any provision that could be made by an Act of Parliament"
And
Clause 8(2): "Regulations under this section may make any provision that could be made by an Act of Parliament"
And this one is the best:
Clause 9(2) "Regulations under this section may make any provision that could be made by an Act of Parliament (including modifying this Act)."
The protections offered in the bill are blown apart in the face of the above clauses, granted that there could be amendments made at the committee stage, But if clause 9(2) is not modified, the amendments could come to nothing later down the road.
You are not naive THM, legislation has been used for the wrong reasons in the past, this repeal bill is a very fast and loose piece of legislation.
Indeed, you should be more worried about the leaders (or misleaders ;)) who are intent on turning the UK into a low tax, low regulation economy (aka, low worker's rights, low safety and food standards). Chlorinated chicken is just the tip of that iceberg.
or others propose that we will try to become like Singapore - which might not be too bad - low crime - very clean, etc.
This is a big deal isn't it. "I vote for you to suffer, it's democratic".and
"I vote to strip you and your children of rights you cherish, against your will, it's democracy".
I struggle with this one.
I've used my FOM rights, and it was fantastic thing to be able to do. I was looking forwards to my kids being able to do the same and maybe doing the same again myself. I'm not wealthy (like some leavers here), I can't buy my way on that one.
Now that's gone because some losers (at the risk of repeating myself, watch the Adrian Chiles doc), who couldn't even find the polling station without asking the pub landlord, say that's how it should be.
If there is a single reason intransigent and not "over it", there it is.
At worst you and your kids may have to apply for a visa stop being so melodramatic.
As for leavers being rich that reminds me of an interesting anecdote I heard about a reporters train journey home to Luton after one of the no to Brexit marches. He said that the train to Luton passes through some very wealthy upper middle class areas on it way to Luton, he said that there were no remain supporters left after the train stopped at the last station which serviced the well off middle class areas.
It is not the poor working classes that have gained the most from the EU it is the opposite. In fact the Bank of England produced a report which outlined immigration (partially caused by EU open borders)suppressed wages in low skilled working class jobs.
We all know that the Leave campaign capitalised on xenophobia and its something we've seen our beloved right wing press pushing for decades.
Of course it influenced the vote and that yougov survey suggested a significant number of brexies would be happy for a family member to lose their job for the sake of Brexit !
Is remoaners may be bitter, but we are but amateurs compared to fthe more swivel-eyed brexies !
whereas most remainers seem to be shortermist and looking at how it's going to affect them financially.
Personally Brexit has already harmed my industry (science research) and me personally as inflation means less money in my pocket.
Certainly I won't profit from Brexit
What most upsets me is that it's my children who are going to loose out on the opportunity to live work & study visa free across a continent.
As well as all the opportunities for trade , research and cooperation.
I see Brexit as without doubt a bad decision long term, the hypocrisy of pretending we are champions of free trade by quitting the worlds largest free trade block is incredible!
No wonder James Dyson thinks we will crash out without a deal (his supply lines won't be upset, what with all his factories in Asia, he also wants the gov to keep paying his farms the CAP subsidies, ironic considering his offshore tax exploits)
On the plus side Brexit has exposed how clueless & incompetent the Maybot & the Tories are.
They didn't kill democracy but the repeal bill was so badly executed that its got amendments out the ass.
It is not the poor working classes that have gained the most from the EU it is the opposite. In fact the Bank of England produced a report which outlined immigration (partially caused by EU open borders)suppressed wages in low skilled working class jobs.
Which isn't going to change after brexit. Continued austerity and immigration from outside the EU countries will see to that.
On the plus side Brexit has exposed how clueless & incompetent the Maybot & the Tories are.
Hence the panic over getting a transitional deal with the EU. But whether its hard or a soft brexit, remain...no I should say return, wins.
(partially caused by EU open borders)suppressed wages in low skilled working class jobs.
By what the author of the report called an almost negligible amount, while their contributions to GDP has been huge, funnily enough it's the politicians in Westminster who have ensured that those working class communities haven't benefited from this, instead they've born the brunt of austerity.
(& So far brexit's inflation has hurt the poorest the most)
Scapegoating the EU & immigrants for our own governments failures is shameful
Indeed, you should be more worried about the leaders (or misleaders ;)) who are intent on turning the UK into a low tax, low regulation economy (aka, low worker's rights, low safety and food standards). Chlorinated chicken is just the tip of that iceberg.
Suppression of political and civil rights by government — especially freedom of expression, peaceful assembly, and association. Ability to arrest people for virtually unlimited periods without charge or judicial review. Allows for the death penalty and has common use of corporal punishment. Legal discrimination against LGBT people, including a ban on gay sex, and censoring of LGBT material. Exclusion of foreign workers from labour protection and exploitation laws.
Yeah, sounds great.
Indeed, you should be more worried about the leaders (or misleaders ;)) who are intent on turning the UK into a low tax, low regulation economy (aka, low worker's rights, low safety and food standards). Chlorinated chicken is just the tip of that iceberg.
Again this is simply not the case, prior to entering the common market the UK had higher standards in most things. As for Chlorinated chicken the practice is nor banned in the EU because washing chicken is unsafe it is because the EU think that it will allow for bad practice further down the production line. I'd have to pull the exact figures but around 70% of all chicken sold is infected with campylobacter and that's with compliance with EU hygiene standards. As a nation we cannot increase the standards due to single market rules.
or others propose that we will try to become like Singapore - which might not be too bad - low crime - very clean, etc.
That's going to take something akin to a miracle.
At worst you and your kids may have to apply for a visa stop being so melodramatic.
Patronising, and very probably incorrect. I'm not talking about 90 day tourism.
As for leavers being rich
Not what I said.
That's the best you can do? Hence the **** we're in.
Again this is simply not the case, prior to entering the common market the UK had higher standards in most things.
As a nation we cannot increase the standards due to single market rules.
What, you think we are going to increase standards after we leave? 😆
who are intent on turning the UK into a low tax, low regulation economy
This is where we are going.
or others propose that we will try to become like Singapore - which might not be too bad - low crime - very clean, etc.
You have bothered to check their human rights record haven't you?
Patronising, and very probably incorrect. I'm not talking about 90 day tourism.
Exactly if it's not tourism get a work visa if you have the required skills and no one of that country can do the job fine.
You talk in ignorance, and don't comprehend the word "freedom".
I'm not wealthy (like some leavers here)
Not what I said.That's the best you can do? Hence the **** we're in.
Accept my apologies for misinterpreting what I thought you implied.
Chlorinated chicken is just the tip of that iceberg.
Yeah, EU food production standards are just [i]so[/i] reassuring
^^ subhead "Brussels spokeswoman says situation is evolving as two men remain arrested following raids in Belgium and the Netherlands"
so it's the opposite to what you suggest, it's potential criminality of disregarding the regs.
At worst you and your kids may have to apply for a visa stop being so melodramatic.
No way. Not even remotely true.
Exactly if it's not tourism get a work visa if you have the required skills and no one of that country can do the job fine.
I take it you've never been through this rigmarole?
I looked into working in the US. You need a job offer before you can get a work based visa. It costs loads of money for companies to apply for visas, so most of them say no applicants who don't already have some other visa. Catch 22. They will find someone who can do the job in the US - even if you are better. So the company ends up with a worse employee. Sure there are plenty of immigrants in the US, but they are the lucky ones who either had a transfer in a job they already had, or a company was prepared to offer them a job for a highly specific reason. Or they won a green card in the lottery. So you don't have the right to go there, you have to be lucky. I had an American girlfriend for quite a while, and I was unable to go and live with her, she was unable to come here. It was not possible unless we got married.
I did about four weeks' work in Switzerland, for the same company I work for here as a permanent employee. It cost my company about £1,100. And I could only stay for a short time - if I overstayed I had to pay Swiss tax and then claim it back through my company.
When I worked in Finland for 18 months all I did was have a phone interview then get on a plane. Visa based travel is far, far harder than EU FoM. So there will be far fewer immigrants - and [i]that will be our loss and theirs[/i]
I take it you've never been through this rigmarole?I looked into working in the US. You need a job offer before you can get a work based visa. It costs loads of money for companies to apply for visas, so most of them say no applicants who don't already have some other visa. Catch 22. They will find someone who can do the job in the US - even if you are better. So the company ends up with a worse employee. Sure there are plenty of immigrants in the US, but they are the lucky ones who either had a transfer in a job they already had, or a company was prepared to offer them a job for a highly specific reason. Or they won a green card in the lottery. So you don't have the right to go there, you have to be lucky.
I did about four weeks' work in Switzerland, for the same company I work for here as a permanent employee. It cost my company about £1,100. And I could only stay for a short time - if I overstayed I had to pay Swiss tax and then claim it back through my company.
When I worked in Finland for 18 months all I did was have a phone interview then get on a plane. Visa based travel is not as nice as EU FoM. So there will be far fewer immigrants - and that will be our loss and theirs
No I have not I have a secure professional Job here in the UK. I have to say tough really which is what remainers imply to someone who had been adversely affected by free movement, be that compressed wages, higher rents etc. You can't complain that some people soundly rejected the EU if that was one their reasons.
I have to say tough really which is what remainers imply to someone who had been adversely affected by free movement, be that compressed wages, higher rents
It's already been shown that immigration hasn't compressed wages. It does however grow the economy, which actually gives people jobs and money (including you and I).
Rents are high because the government hasn't organised enough housing for everyone. Kicking out productive economic workers because you haven't built houses is like throwing gold bricks out of your bank because there's not enough room in the vault.