[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

The thing is that it's more than just a trade arrangement

Correct sorry I forgot the folly that is the single currency.. Excuse me.

It's shouldn't be more than a singer market based on the four freedoms

The EU have little to lose. It us that need concessions from them. They need nothing from us

There is zero chance of the EU coming up with a solution that would please the leavers. Its simply not in their interest to do so

Once people and goods are in NI they are in the UK or are you now wanting a hard border in the irish sea? Otherwise there is no way of checking who or what is coming from NI to mainland UK

The news is overwhelming positive, pro Brexit.

Really? financial services that keep theUK afloat fast moving out? Inward investment disappearing, major companies cutting investment, vast looming labour shortages in the NHS. All financial indicators doing far worse than the eurozone? NO trade deals appearing with anyone else

Name one single positive thing happening

Poland is looking to claim just shy of a Trillion euros in second world war reparations from Germany,

That's a private beef between those two.

It's not like good upstanding nations haven't made similar payments before as an apology for atrocities.

The whole point of the EU is never let atrocities like that happen again.

At some point, given the history of conflict between humans, a line has to be drawn and we all move forward together in a fair way.

The EU have little to lose. It us that need concessions from them. They need nothing from us

😯 ^2 plus 😀

Isn't it embarrassing posting that kind of stuff?

All financial indicators doing worse than the euro zone

Ed, have we found your source ?

David Allen Green on why the bill is a botch. I commend my MP for voting against - committed remainer that she is.

He's worth a follow for remainers. Even right-wing-tow-the-party-line-lets-get-on-with-it-quitters might learn a thing or two from him - if their hubris would let them.

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/907265326433304576

[quote=jambalaya ]The news is overwhelming positive, pro Brexit.

😆

er, cite...

[img] [/img]

Have done plenty already @aracer

Employment up
Wages up
Exports at record levels (up 17% since the referendum)
Nissan production confirmed and wish to double uk sourced components from 40 to 80%
Deutsche Bank signs new lease on London HQ
US confirms early trade deal likely as does Australia and NZ. Nothing can be signed until April 2019 anyway. Canada and Japan will join too. UK confirms it will seek to replicate all 60 EU deals as soon as possible.

TJ no one has moved out from the city, the folks I know working on contingency plans may move a few people that's it. 60% of Germans think Brexit is bad for the EU. The UK can broaden its horizons and seize growth opportunities with Brexit the EU is locked into protectionism.

EU negotiating team holes to push UK into remaining in single market/eea/Customs union via Norway type deal as the "only" solution the NI border issue.

Of course Germans think Brexit is bad for the EU, it is, but they've got to "get on with it".

Bespoke sector by sector trade deal as per Canada, no ecj, no budget, no freedom of movement OR WTO

TJ no one has moved out from the city, the folks I know working on contingency plans may move a few people that's it.

Sorry you are both wrong - it's a battle - many more than a few, I know directly. Plus the EU have a lot to lose from the fragmentation of EU wholesale banking markets. Lots to lose

Canada deal is a very poor substitute for financial services too.

Of course German's think Brexit is bad for the EU, it is, but they've got to "get on with it".

I suspect they don't think it's all that good for their own EU contributions bill either...

Exports at record levels (up 17% since the referendum)

In pound terms I assume.

A source is need for the Nissan figures

One bank rents space in London, many in Europe

No trade deals signed or in the pipeline

Spin, spin, spin

suspect they don't think it's all that good for their own EU contributions bill either...

Exports at record levels (up 17% since the referendum)

MPs are looking younger and younger.

TJ no one has moved out from the city,

simply wrong. JObs have already gone and a lot more are going.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/12-city-banks-relocating-to-dublin-after-brexit-2017-6

http://www.cityam.com/267169/banking-brexodus-one-year-banks-have-said-brexit-and-job

Ed Davey young?

Bespoke sector by sector trade deal as per Canada

Cite? NBo work has been done on this yet and we simply do not have the time and expertise to do so

Is THM [i]still[/i] answering my posts and insulting me? Despite me blocking and ignoring him?

no just pointing out where you are making stuff up and yes there is quite a lot, Three posts in a row all with factual inaccuracies.

Banks are planning to move people, and are well advanced with this planning. Since they don't know the details, they have not started the expensive relocation despite what you say about jobs having already gone. Why would they ?

Is this the old completions between you and Jambas to see who can make the most things up?

So Jam, quote a business leader who says business prospects now are better *because* of brexit.

[quote=jambalaya ]Have done plenty already @aracer

Which of those things are better than they would have been without Brexit?

Though let's just pick on this one:

US confirms early trade deal likely as does Australia and NZ. Nothing can be signed until April 2019 anyway. Canada and Japan will join too. UK confirms it will seek to replicate all 60 EU deals as soon as possible.

So how is this "early trade deal" (I think you meant to write "early start to negotiations towards a trade deal") and a gap before replicating all 60 trade deals better than what we have now?

Though I suppose we'll probably be OK as we can always eat the luxury yachts.

No trade deals signed or in the pipeline

EU membership PREVENTS signature so no surprise there, UK obeys rule of law. Pipeline US, Australia, NZ, Japan

Nissan news was well covered in the press, 2 weeks ago ?

You/France need to focus on your own 10% general 20% youth unemployment rates and work out how you will meet the 3% budget deficit requirement on the eurozone.

Exports are measured in pounds of course, lower pound makes our exports more attractive to international buyers. Pounds is what pays the salaries of UK employees and profits to business owners.

TJ jobs move are projected and small in number. Most bizarre we have the lefties here trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill re City of London. As I posted before 100's thoisands of city/finance jobs have gone since 2008 and lefties here where saying "good riddance". Most bizarre turn around to suit Remoaning narrative.

TMH Canada didn't focus on services as they are not so important, banks like BMO have virtually shut down in London post 2008 anyway.

Well I was responding to this

Bespoke sector by sector trade deal as per Canada

Canada is one of a small handful of deals re financial services and it is a very poor example for us.

(I have just spent the last three days studying all these deals 😉 )

Anyway, it appears jamba's answer to:

[quote=kelvin ]

EU negotiating team holes to push UK into remaining in single market/eea/Customs union via Norway type deal as the "only" solution the NI border issue

And your solution is…?

was:

[quote=jambalaya ]Bespoke sector by sector trade deal as per Canada, no ecj, no budget, no freedom of movement OR WTO

which is an answer to a completely different question. jamba is DD and I claim my €5

- what is your solution to the NI border issue jamba?

He already answered that. Basically no borders with random spot checks. Unless you have a private Yatch and you can cross the sea without à passport.

Wages up

Jamba - with inflation caused by Brexit running 50-100% ahead of wage rises, wages are down due to Brexit.

I can't be bothered going through the rest of your assertions, but when you get the simple ones so blatantly wrong I don't hold out much hope.

Come on - your better than this.

IGM - have you missed the game ?

(Tbf to Janbas the last data point did show a real increase in wages in June. But that was the first month in some time. Public sector wages didn't rise in real terms obviously

Yep but fallen over all.

Have I missed the game? Probably.

Are we playing "Cheat"? Excellent card game that.

And also being fair to Jamba, my wages have risen quite noticeably. But then people like me are required to haul us out of this sorry Brexit mess. Don't worry I have a bit of experience of disaster recovery.

TMH is still rubbishing everything you say, TJ, even when he agrees with you, but we can all check for ourselves to see that the grammatical syntax of your original quote on banking is true [url= http://uk.businessinsider.com/12-city-banks-relocating-to-dublin-after-brexit-2017-6 ]Ireland[/url] space

[url= https://www.lesechos.fr/18/01/2017/lesechos.fr/0211704002690_brexit---hsbc-va-deplacer-1-000-emplois-de-londres-a-paris.htm ]Paris[/url] I'll leave Frankfurt for people to Google

TMH is still rubbishing everything you say, TJ, even when he agres with you,

No he is noting and correcting the series of factual mistakes made by TJ and others. If you post nonsense, it will get picked up.

but we can all check for ourselves

That would be a good start

to see that the grammatical syntax of your original quote on banking is true to the IrelandParis I'll leave Frankfurt for people to Google

No it's another example of remoan exaggeration. Banks are planning to relocate staff to a variety of EU centres. The final decisions will be made when the details of the FTA with respect to financial services.

But since you are playing the same game, I do not expect the factual details to worry you either. Carry on..

I see that famous rigjt winger Dennis Skinner voted for the Withdrawl Bill and against Corbyn's whip

326 vs 290. Comfortable enough and we move forward to the next stage

Edukator - Reformed Troll

TMH is still rubbishing everything you say, TJ,

🙄

Are we playing "Cheat"? Excellent card game that.

Yes, although some of us (incl you and me) are playing a parallel game

@Edukator HSBC cut 8,000 UK jobs in 2015 where was your concern then ? Worldwide workforce has shrunk 75,000 (ish maybe more) simce 2010. It makes sense for banks who care about Europe (eg not Barclays) to relicate some staff / business. Those "losses" (profits will still be relocated back to low tax uk) will be offset by economic gains elsewhere. Our unemployment is at record low yet we have lost 300,000 (?) banking jobs - swings and roundabouts

@aracer have a look at the 60 existing EU trade deals, the vast majoroty are with tiny countries and are for political not economic reasons.

We are definitely working out the details with those countries just in a low key way given EU sensitivities. All signed within 3-12 months of March 2019 is my view

@igm real wages only rise with improvements in productivity and post financial crises you (certainly I) would have expected far larger falls in living standards. Having to wean yourself off living on credit is painful.

(profits will still be relocated back to low tax uk

Centering European profits in the UK will no longer be possible post Brexit. Profits will have to be booked and taxes paid somewhere in the EU. Probably Ireland, Luxembourg or some other tax haven unless agreement can be reached to put a end to fiscal dumping within the EU. One of those things that need working on.

Labour abstentions - roughly 10% of Labour MPs defied Corbyn. A taste of his own medicine

LABOUR REBELS IN FULL

Just seven Labour MPs voted with the government:

Ronnie Campbell
Frank Field
Kate Hoey
Kelvin Hopkins
John Mann
Dennis Skinner
Graham Stringer

Abstentions (for various reasons):

Ian Austin
Kevin Barron
David Crausby
Caroline Flint
Yvonne Fovargue
David Hanson
Helen Jones
Kevan Jones
Gerard Killen
Madeleine Moon
John Spellar
Anna Turley (ill)
Derek Twigg
Rosie Winterton

Are they the traitors Len Mccluskey was referring to on R4 this morning.

Xenophobes and tories in the wrong party plus scared of racists in their constituencies by and large. Shows how out of touch many labour MPs are. Unfit for purpose

scared of racists in their constituencies

Democrats, in other words?

Tricky thing this representative democracy isn't it?

ropean profits in the UK will no longer be possible post Brexit. Profits will have to be booked and taxes paid somewhere in the EU.

Not true. It depends on the activity and the response of individual banks (eg, branches v subsidiaries )

Democrats, in other words?

Tricky thing this representative democracy

😉

Oops - UK inflation at 2.9%, with specific ONS reference to £ effect. You may need to adjust the wage conclusion Jambas I'm afraid 😉