[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Mmm, the above totally unrelated to what I said. Secret plans? Refugees? Dumping ground? That's your completely fabricated take on things.

You have the same debating style as Eddie Izzard.

You're just talking sh1t now.

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This is good ...

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@mrLebowski.

You lose the argument.

Another quote pic for you chewkw:

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Aren't quotes great 🙂

Those thick remainders on the panel are trying to argue ...

Did you watch the video posted earlier from the professor who has spent his working life studying the European Constitution and Britain's part in it. Is he one of the "thick remainders"?

I firmly believe that Junker doesn't want us in. We are a PITA to him, and us being out makes his job easier. It would go some way to explain that the only comments he has made have been negative "traitors will not be welcomed back" "no renegotiation" etc etc.
Not once have I heard him say anything to the effect of "we want the UK to stay, we value you and we believe that we will all be stronger if you vote remain".
IMVHO, putting his arm around us and letting us feel wanted and valued would have been a pretty powerful point. But he didn't.

EU commission interference with the way Poland is run.
[url= http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-16-2017_en.htm ]Read press release of EU Commission report[/url]

EU commission overrules a democratic decision on water charges in Ireland.
[url= http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/td-accuses-european-commission-of-stunning-hypocrisy-on-water-charges-738184.html ]Irish news paper I guess here.[/url]

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Jezza Paxman has nipped out of retirement for a few K at 9 to pull strange faces for 90mins at his EU themed guests.

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You lose the argument.

"I am 150% in favour of having Britain as a constructive member state of the European Union.

"We need Britain."

the media is biased and only quotes the bad stuff , as he is hated he has largely been silent on the issue. Can you imagine the headlines if he was seen as "telling " us to stay 0 Bully - scaremonger - Nazi headlines everywhere

No person in the EU wants its to split but I bet they are sick to death of us sitting at the edge moaning constantly

😆 another good one ...

Professor Patrick Minford schools Nick Clegg and the BBC on free trade

Fair enough junky, but that was said in what, october of last year? 9 months before the referendum?!?1 People (me included) have short memories. He has huge influence, and (again, IMHO) could have used his profile more constructively to help the remain campaign.

Lies told to Norway before they rejected EU membership

The Norwegians are much braver than the BritLand remainders ... 😆

Of course Juncker's aides quickly clarified chewkw's quote there as a simple mispronunciation by someone who was not speaking in his first language and offered the corrected quote. But where's the fun in that.

http://news.sky.com/story/1569562/did-juncker-say-britain-does-not-need-the-eu

Fair enough junky, but that was said in what, october of last year?

Yep - it was literally the same speech that chewkw's is quoting.

Here comes Jeremy Paxman ... good documentary this. 😆

Paxman in Brussels: Who Really Rules Us? Documentary 2016

Nothing like posting half the story. In relation to chewkw's graph:

We hence count both abstention and negative votes as a failure to publicly support a majority view.

However, one thing to note is the high level of agreement in both periods: the UK voted on the winning side 97.4% of the time in 2004-09 and 86.7% of the time in 2009-15.

These aggregate patterns might be distorted by the fact that there were more votes on some policy issues than on others, with the UK opposed only in areas that happened to have many votes.

However, there are some important caveats to keep in mind:

• The council overwhelmingly decides by consensus, which means the UK is on the winning majority side almost 87% of the time.

• The UK government might be more willing than other governments to publicly register its opposition to EU decisions.

• The data does not tell us what went on behind the scenes on each of these issues, and hence how much the UK disagreed with the majority position when it recorded its opposition – perhaps the UK was on the winning side on all the key issues it really cared about in this period.

For a complete picture, this evidence needs to be put together with other evidence from the policy process, such as whether a government actually gets the policies it wants (the subject of the first post in this series), and whether the UK is marginalised in the other main legislative body: the European parliament (which will be addressed in future posts).

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/world/datablog/2015/nov/02/is-uk-winner-or-loser-european-council ]Guardian[/url]

I wonder why you didn't post the source?

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Lifer - Member

Nothing like posting half the story. In relation to chewkw's graph:

Sorry laddie I got too much information to roll out so you need to research your information to counter them because those are facts.

The Norwegians are much braver than the BritLand remainders ...

The Norwegians are members of the [url= https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Free_Trade_Association ]European Free Trade Association[/url], which gains them access to the EU market.

I guess we could rejoin that group (we are former members) but we would need to accept the conditions, like EU regulation and free movement of workers...

I was listening to Prof Minford on the radio the other day. He's quite a good comedy act as well as being very intelligent.

Of course Prof Minford, who is regarded generally as fairly right wing, has been advocating reducing import tariffs whether or not others do the same. He freely admits that we will buy our stuff from manufacturers abroad, but feels that letting UK manufacturing die off is s price worth paying so that we can concentrate on the service industry where we make more profit. For those of you lucky enough that means well paid jobs in financial services - for the less lucky it means serving coffee.

Everything he says is probably about right. It's just not very palatable.

More lies from Gove about rights to live in EU

http://gu.com/p/4y4dt?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

chewkw - Member
Sorry laddie I got too much information to roll out so you need to research your information to counter them because those are facts.

I posted the caveats attached to the graph you posted, from the same article the graph came from.

Big difference is that in Norway they share their wealth . Revenue from gas and oil is shared with the nation . in the the Uk , it is shared between a few multimillionaires .

Here you go the ex-PM that talked about EUSSR sold you out.

EDWARD HEATH Interview in Brussels after singing Treaty with EEC - 24I1972

Chewkw and jambalaya are on the leave side. The two biggest morons on this forum. Even if I knew of no arguments for staying in, this alone would be enough to convince me to vote remain.

Sorry BritLand you have been taken for a ride ... wake up ... 😆

[b]European Union Conspiracy - Britain on the Brink[/b]

He has huge influence, and (again, IMHO) could have used his profile more constructively to help the remain campaign

Possibly but he is also toxic and I dont think it would have helped much to have unelected EB bureaucrats/ foreigners coming over here telling us what to do tbh

What in earth are you folk doing "debating" with chewkw Have you no sense.

More facts ...

Wake up BritLand ... wake up!

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My cousin just described the EU as autocratic after sharing the "out means out" bit by Juncker. Does anyone agree?

Wouldn't say so, essentially they will be protecting themselves by making it hard on us if the vote does go for leave.
For no other reason than to make the other groups wanting to leave back away from the red button

So what you are saying Chekw is that despite still being in the EU we have managed to keep our youth unemployment as one of the lowest in the block?
Is youth unemployment somehow contagious? Will we catch it if we stay in?

Is it like cooties?

More facts ...
Youth Unemployment Still Unrelenting in Europe

Good God, you mean we have lower youth unemployment than most of Europe?
Clearly being in Europe is working well for us then. 😀

Norway's Youth Unemployment is 11.8% if you are interested ([url= http://www.tradingeconomics.com/norway/youth-unemployment-rate ]Source[/url])

How did things look in the 70s then chewk?

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Our country has benefited enormously in the last 40 years or so of EU membership

The influx of Polish binmen certainly helped 🙂

autocratic after sharing the "out means out" bit by Juncker. Does anyone agree?

Help me decide ...

Can I have a few bullet points in v out please .. Serious/piss take whatever 😀

Can't be any worse than deciding by the endless drivel via media

Ta 8)

in
* better for the economy
* free movement in Europe
* Global player as tied to one of the worlds largest economies
* Peace in Europe

Leave
* We have to pay to be in it - its about £110 million per week
* too many Immigrants
* loss of sovereignty
* we will be better off if we leave even though every expert says we wont and we have no plan on achieving this.

Our country has benefited enormously in the last 40 years or so of EU membership

Including a massive increase in GDP. OK, not all of that may be down to being part of the EU, but it certainly hasn't held the Country back.

Nail/heads - reminders.

[b]Vote Leave - Lord Owen Gives Speech On BREXIT [/b]

Wake up BritLand!
Wake up BritLand before it's too late!
Wake up BritLand save what you have left ...

plus one - Member
Help me decide

In
Things stay the same, we're still the 5th largest economy in the world

Out
At best 2 years of negotiations till we know what things might change, in the short term will probably stall investment in our economy, after that we might be able to get better deals

Anyone who reckons anything different is full of shit (imho)

Lord Owen says it all.
[b]
Vote OUT
Vote Leave
Vote for your future.
Vote for happiness. [/b]

* Peace in Europe

* loss of sovereignty

chewkw, why has your campaign started so late? I don't have time to take on board all these gems before tomorrow.

Does chekw have these phrases as hotlinks, so it seems to make some sense as he mashes the keyboard frothing at the mouth

[b]The writing is on the wall and it comes from the source.

😯

Vote remain = dig own graves. [/b]

chewkw: just as a quick point, posting YouTube videos with "Conspiracy" in the title and repeatedly shouting at people to "Wake Up" is a pretty massive red flag to me. 😆

Chewkw

A bit of advice.......

You are begining to sounding desperate, perhaps you should give it a rest

I still haven't decided, it's all just bullshit being touted by both sides, generally via people whose opinions are worth no more than Jo Bloggs down the pub.

I will vote, but am thinking if undecided then remain is the safer option, we can surely always get out or veto in the future, but there won't be any getting back in.

[b]More Facts!!!! Vote To Leave The EU [/b] ... look at the face of this technocrats! 😆

Honestly couldn't GAF what happens. I just want this type of stuff to stop so we can get on with it and have real(ish) news again

Not a dig to be very clear as plenty of folk seem to think govt has **** all influence on them
I have never understood that view - again not a dig

Its like hes plugged into some sort of Soviet style Brexit meme generator

Can you filibuster the thread all the way through until the results?

I think you spelt more incorrectly.
With your level of ranting it should be spelt MOAR!!!

Haha making comments about the face of people when you have both Farage and gove on your side is taking things a bit far

"Take back control". In my whole life I have never been governed by anyone I've voted for.
I've never had any control.

Crikey there are 5 EU Presidents where UK has no say ... 😯

BritLand will be doomed if remains! 😯

Its interesting that folk care so little about politics as to me this is the biggest vote in my lifetime. Its pretty important stuff IMHO

wrecker - Member
One thing I do know is that british politics (including everyone) is a sorry affair.

Including the doubling of GDP. OK, not all of that may be down to being part of the EU, but it certainly hasn't held the Country back.

The same numbers can be made to support either argument.

Help me decide ...

Can I have a few bullet points in v out please .. Serious/piss take whatever

Can't be any worse than deciding by the endless drivel via media

Ta

ave you seen the film Dredd? That is what Britain will be like in 5 years time if you vote remain.

It's not really that muddy. One side has little or nothing to argue hence the transplant lies. That is crystal clear.

Only one important decisions - VOTE - it really is IMPORTANT
The easy bit/decision is where to put the tick - important and EASY

Lovely to be away for two days to miss the last of BS. Extraordinary to have a debate that made the Scottish referendum look informed......shameful performance from the BSers.

I think chewkw is one of the new generation trollbots 😉

Seriously though, Lord Owen? We've all reckoned he was mad for decades now.

And the gravedigger reference was John Major describing BoJo, Gove and Farage (said Faraj, doesn't rhyme with garage - in case anyone had missed that)

[b]Ex-Norwegian Gov minister, Brits nothing to fear voting Brexit (20Jun16)[/b]

igm - Member
I think chewkw is one of the new generation trollbots

but they are also trying to convince us that they know something the reast of us don't. I'd like to have made an informed decision. I don't feel that it has possible to do so.
One thing I do know is that british politics (including everyone) is a sorry affair.

Leave have pedalled some sort of optimism for Britain , sovereignty and a sneering attempt to blame immigrants for everything and have given absolutely nothing at all of concrete explanation about what will happen afterwards other than to be optimistic to the point that no one [ who does not support them politically] agrees with them

Its been a terrible debate

I do thin, though this may be my bias, that the real problem is what happens when you have tories v tory as they pedal shit all the time

Labour have been near absent

wrecker, you've hit the nail on the head for me, there just aren't many (any?) facts being published, both sides are both as guilty, it's all just crap, there is no way to make a properly informed decision, it's guess work, or from what I gather based on misheld beliefs about immigration.

It's tempting to vote remain purely to try and counteract the leave votes of millions of unintelligent, neanderthal racists.

The scariest person in all of this (to me at least) is Junker. He strikes me as a petty, vindictive prick who cares little for the UK. I do worry that he'd shaft us given half a chance. There again, I worry about another financial crisis should we leave.
It's just got to the point where I have decided that I'll accept the decision made by the people of Britain and get on with it.

there just aren't many (any?) facts being published

More Facts!!!! Vote To Leave The EU

chewkw there you go posting Norwegians again. They are in a position that we cannot be in.

They are outside the EU but have access to the EU market by accepting EU regulation and free movement of people.

Pretty much the entire Leave campaign is based around trying to avoid that.

[b]Even more facts!
More accurate facts!
Much more facts than those from remain camp.[/b]

Steve Hilton responds to Cameron weird statement with positive Brexit message

I don't normally comment on this. But from a purely selfish perspective i am voting in.

A lot of what people say is rumour, speculation mixed with prejudice. However if we vote leave I reckon it is nailed on we will have a recession this year. The markets will be really uncertain, sterling will plummet and major companies will put off investment decisions until the future becomes clearer. I work for a large construction company and basically our turnover is a direct consequence of the levels of investment in the economy. I am 42 and I ****ing don't want 10 years of economic crap.

the UK leaving is unchartered territory so a large amount of uncertainty is surely inevitable. I reckon we will have to chose between a Switz/Norway option where in order to have free access to Europe we still have to pay in and accept free movement of labour (ie this won't solve immigration) or have no real trade deal with the EU and rely on WTO tariff levels. This would solve immigration but it would spell the death knell for virtually all of the UK's engineering sector (cars, planes etc) as these jobs are predicated on cheap and easy access to the European market. The City would be a bit ****ed but some of the "one horse" towns in the provinces would be hollowed out.

Boris Jonson is after a promotion and he is gambling with other people's jobs to get it.

Adjusting for inflation, in the 18 years before we joined the European Community, GDP increased by ~82% or ~3.38% per year. In the 40 years from joining the European Community up to 2013, GDP increased ~145% or ~2.26% per year. I know which number sounds better to me.

Britain joined what was then the European Economic Community in 1973 as the sick man of Europe. By the late 1960s, France, West Germany and Italy — the three founder members closest in size to the UK — produced more per person than it did and the gap grew larger every year. Between 1958, when the EEC was set up, and Britain’s entry in 1973, gross domestic product per head rose 95 per cent in these three countries compared with only 50 per cent in Britain.

After becoming an EEC member, Britain slowly began to catch up. Gross domestic product per person has grown faster than Italy, Germany and France in the 42 years since. By 2013, Britain became more prosperous than the average of the three other large European economies for the first time since 1965.

Source: https://next.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

Ah well. Another interesting thread derailed and spammed to death by chewkw.
Why couldn't you have done this earlier and saved us all 5700-odd posts? 😐

G'night all.

Listen to the facts BritLand ...

The information comes from people in the know.

[b]Lord Digby Jones totally eviscerates Remain Labour MP [/b]

I do worry that he'd shaft us given half a chance.

There again, I worry about another financial crisis should we leave.

Without access to the EU, and I agree they are unlikely to do it unless we pay - so in what sense have we left?- then we are pretty much in the shit.

Trusting the British public is the stupidest thing you have ever said on here 😉

Now even the Australian Senator join in to urge BritLand to Vote OUT of EU.

[quote=GrahamS ]Ah well. Another interesting thread derailed and spammed to death by chewkw.
Why couldn't you have done this earlier and saved us all 5700-odd posts?
G'night all.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/singletrack-world-forum-e/cpgdlmbifgbhcoigdoeoooakijdionop?hl=en-GB

allows you to block users of your choice

I choose only chewkw for mine

Could've sworn I just saw binbins on yon tellybox 😀
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GrahamS - Member

Aren't quotes great

Personally I like this one :

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[b]Michael Caine for "Brexit" and against "White Guilt" in Hollywood. [/b]

One side has little or nothing to argue hence the transplant lies.

I suspect it will go very quiet.

From the source.

[b]Brexit guy destroys lefty arguments [/b]

Chewlw

You may be under the impression you are providing informed and accurate infromation to persuade people to support your point of view.

It won't help people decide to vote leave.

Honestly It really doesn't.

It just looks like desperate last minute scaremongering.