APPLE.NEWS I can't think they'd be that stupid to crash out without one.
Hmmm dunno about that one 🙂
The EuroAtom Farce makes me wonder.
Looks like the government have agreed that they are going to pay money to the EU.
how many U turns is that now?
Non FT link for the hot polloi?
And neither HM Gov or HM Oppo are advocating a hard Brexshit
"No deal is better than a bad deal"?
Off topic but*
Cluster *
bit of a mess
I know, I can read the filter. It replaces characters with other characters, letters and asterisks are both characters.
So who put in the change of the word 'summ-at' to 'somthing' then
That I can't see. Some of it is legacy, like blocking some of the more irritating Fred-isms, and not really relevant any more. Why that particular one is in there I couldn't say, but I expect there was a reason for it at the time.
Point of note here, we can view it but don't have privs to make changes to it. Anything that gets included is done by STW towers, all the Moderators can do is request changes.
Cut and pasted from the FT, not quite sure how the paywall works, as i got this without a subscription.
The humiliation came in three stages, spread over three days. The first stage was on Tuesday 11 July 2017, on the floor of the House of Commons. During a debate on exiting the EU, the UK foreign secretary Boris Johnson was asked:
“Since we joined the Common Market on 1 January 1973 until the date we leave, we will have given the EU and its predecessors, in today’s money in real terms, a total of £209 billion. Will the Foreign Secretary make it clear to the EU that if it wants a penny piece more, it can go whistle?”
Johnson’s answer was:
“I am sure that my hon. Friend’s words will have broken like a thunderclap over Brussels and they will pay attention to what he has said. He makes a very valid point; the sums that I have seen that they propose to demand from this country seem to me to be extortionate, and I think that to “go whistle” is an entirely appropriate expression.”
Brussels could go and whistle over any financial payment in the exit agreement. Here the foreign secretary was doing little more than repeating what was said at that infamous dinner at Downing Street, where (according to Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung):
“The subject of money came up in conversation. The EU estimates costs of 60-65 billion Euros for London. May argued that her country didn’t owe the European Union one penny; after all, there’s nothing in the treaty about a final tally due in the event of an exit.”
The second step of the humiliation came the day after, on Wednesday, at a press conference given by the EU chief negotiator on Brexit, Michael Barnier. He was asked about the “whistle” comment. With the air of a headteacher telling the pupils that it is only their own time they are wasting, he responded:
“I am not hearing any whistling, just the clock ticking.”
The third stage was the admission by the UK government on Thursday that it was, in fact, accepting that it was to pay an amount to the EU on departure. This was spotted by the FT’s bureau chief in Brussels Alex Barker as a written answer to a parliamentary question. The relevant portion of the answer was:
“On the financial settlement, as set out in the Prime Minister’s letter to President Tusk, the Government has been clear that we will work with the EU to determine a fair settlement of the UK’s rights and obligations as a departing member state, in accordance with the law and in the spirit of our continuing partnership. The Government recognises that the UK has obligations to the EU, and the EU obligations to the UK, that will survive the UK’s withdrawal — and that these need to be resolved.”
This went subtly beyond what was said in the Article 50 letter of 29 March 2017, which had stated:
“We will need to discuss how we determine a fair settlement of the UK’s rights and obligations as a departing member state, in accordance with the law and in the spirit of the United Kingdom’s continuing partnership with the EU.”
As Alex Barker reported, EU diplomats said the wording “goes further” than Theresa May’s previous reference to Britain being willing to reach a “fair settlement” of unspecified (not necessarily financial) obligations.
In effect, Thursday was the day the whistling ended. This, of course, is no surprise. Unless something unexpected happens, the story of the Brexit negotiations will be one of the UK giving way on each contested point. Britain promised the “row of the summer” over the sequencing of the negotiations before quietly capitulating. The UK appears to be now accepting the principle of some payment to the EU on exit.
There are two main reason for these setbacks. The first, which was set out in a trilogy of posts on this blog (here, here and here), is that the EU has prepared properly and practically for these negotiations. The EU knows what it wants, can justify what it wants and has worked out how to achieve it. Britain is instead saddled with a prime minister whose idea of “getting on with the job” includes calling and then losing unnecessary general elections.
The second reason is that UK ministers are, in fact, negotiating with the wrong people (as set in on this blog in November). Ministers are engaged in attempting to win over, as much as possible, their own backbenchers and the tabloid newspapers. A martian looking down on these ministers would assume that the EU exit negotiations were of secondary importance to winning political and press support. The Brexit agreement has an auxiliary role to the need to say the right things to the right people domestically.
Such is the closeness of Westminster political and media worlds that the foreign secretary and others do not realise there is anything about international agreements beyond joking with backbenchers and political correspondents. For Mr Johnson and those laughing along with him, Mr Barnier and his team are no closer than Alfred T. Mahan’s far distant, storm-beaten ships.
As pro-Brexit ministers attempt to bluster or chuckle their way through any form of scrutiny, the EU negotiating team is there waiting patiently, knowing the clock is ticking away. There will be attempts by ministers and their supporters at avoidance, evasion and diversion. There will be name-calling and strident demands for patriotism. There will be blame-mongering and jockeying for succession. But what there will not be is any relevant minister taking this as seriously as the EU is doing.
This week may have seen the day when the whistling stopped. But far more important is what Britain will have to show for itself when the ticking of the clock stops in just over 20 months’ time, and is replaced by the sound of silence. Even Mr Johnson may fail to raise a smile then.
Cut and pasted from the FT, not quite sure how the paywall works, as i got this without a subscription.
Thank you, appreciated.
I'm fairly sure you get a free number of article views with the FT then you hit the subscription wall.
another thought about the whole referendum
I keep hoping for the grown ups to wrestle back control from the lunatics presently at the wheel, and put the brakes on this self-harming stupidity
Yet here we still are....
What process do you have in mind? We have two groups of incompetents (Tory and Lab) who enjoy the support of the majority of the Uk voters who are both arguing largely for the same thing will the same level of preparation (sic). So you might as well wait for Godot. He will arrive earlier
I'm fairly sure you get a free number of article views with the FT then you hit the subscription wall.
Two, IIRC.
teamhurtmore - Member
What process do you have in mind? We have two groups of incompetents (Tory and Lab) who enjoy the support of the majority of the Uk voters who are both arguing largely for the same thing will the same level of preparation (sic). So you might as well wait for Godot. He will arrive earlier
one group has proved themselves to be incompetent beyond all reasonable doubt (jambalaya, chewkw and ninfan expected)
I'd give the other group a go.
Two bads don't make a good - and Corbyn is more of a leaver than May
and Corbyn is more of a leaver than May
Nah he's way smarter than May, so we live in hope
Perhaps now that he does his top button up and wears a tie. Otherwise...
On the basis Corbyn is leading his party, while May is being led by hers, Corbyn has more room for manoeuvre and is therefore more likely to come back with a sensible answer even if he is more of a leaver.
Perhaps now that he does his top button up and wears a tie. Otherwise...
What? You want to see him in leather trousers?
Mail on Sunday has brilliant headline today about how the French are planning to 'wreck' our economy. Evil frenchies - what they don't know is we're doing a perfectly good job all by ourselves 🙂
Chancellor Philip Hammond has told the BBC's Andrew Marr Show that businesses are holding off from investing in the UK because of uncertainty about Brexit."It is absolutely clear businesses where they have discretion over investment, where they can hold off, are doing so - you can understand why.
"They are waiting for more clarity about what the future relationship with Europe will look like," he said.
[url=
BBC.COM Link[/url]
So we have 2 years of companies holding back on investment to see what deal we make then who can say how long after the "deal" is reached for confidence to return...
I can say for sure that since Brexit the company I work for has moved 3 manufacturing sites out of the UK and changed a relocation of one of our groups headquarters from London to Paris. It's depressing to say the least.
Two bads don't make a good - and Corbyn is more of a leaver than May
He's already shown that he is prepared to lead the party on a position with which he does not necessarily agree e.g. Trident.
And also campaign for remain when he clearly believed in leave. However the policy has to change for that to become relevant.
[url=
would apppear the BBC have employed our forum optimist:[/url]
The article starts in a matter of fact manner and drifts off into anecdotes and quoting people with their heads firmly in the sand. Quoting 2016 growth rather than the latest figures was the first thing that smacked of optimistic leaver, but it was at the point that journo says that four major US banks will be backing the city (as if that's going to make a scrap of difference) that I began to think the BBC are intentionally misleading people. Rose tinted BBC spectacles for all.
Get real BBC, 27 countries are going to act in their own best interests, which just became a whole lot easier since one country abandonned its best interests.
[url=
yet in another article it's absh the French[/url] when it's Francfort that's picked up more banks, and Dublin will probably be the overall winner.
BBC just doing their 'patrotic duty'.
Can't have the Tories getting blamed when it all collapses now can we.
It's very unfair to claim that Auntie is biased....she simply has a different remit to be biased against everyone! Hence she is by default unbiased
Probably a fair assessment
Oh come on, that article is just taking the piss:
Her key message has been that "Brexit means Brexit"
those brexies really do think hammond is an 'enemy of the people'
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also love this pic of davis
EU team have obviously got extensive notes
Davis just gonna bumble through it, with some superior british common sense
[img] 
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THEGUARDIAN.COM Looks very much like the knives are out for Hammond because he doesn't believe strongly enough in the one true path. Have to wonder who is driving this, i doubt it is May, she is as much a pawn as the others.
They all hate Hammond as he's the only one who isn't living in some totally bonkers, xenophobic, flag-waving fantasy world, and seems to have got into the habit of pointing out uncomfortable 'cake-and-eat-it' related home truths.
Happily, he doesn't seem to give a toss about upsetting their Winston Churchill/Dunkirk spirit pipe-dream, as he knows that May is powerless to do anything about anything, so he can do and say what the hell he likes!
The bottom line is that despite how vocal the total headcases in the Tory party are, the vast majority of the parties MP's voted remain, and agree with Hammond that this whole thing is absolute insanity
EU team have obviously got extensive notes
Davis just gonna bumble through it, with some superior british common sense
Sure Davis will be fine with his cheery, cheeky grin.
Davis does seem to be winning the competition for grossly overestimating their own abilities. No mean feat when the other two contenders are Boris Johnson and Liam Fox
[url=
is probably a pretty accurate account of the days proceedings[/url]
Mail on Sunday has brilliant headline today about how the French are planning to 'wreck' our economy.
That has some truth to it. There is a Frenchman* who owns several major paper which has done a lot of damage to the UK.
*as far as I know the Private Eye story has never been denied and his status hasnt changed.
sadly I think the trite jingoism of the Brexiters will never go away
our exit bill will be an outrage forced on us by the crazy ferederalist euros
the Repeal Bill will be trumpeted as a new Magna Carta (torygraph and mogg etc already hammering that fantasy home) even though its the biggest ever betrayal of the sovereignty shite talked throughout the referendum;
Copying word for word EU law so that we can still meet the same standards to cooperate & trade with the EU & beyond, obviously we will have to update the EU law as they update theirs.... FAKECONTROL at its best, we will have 0 input in a huge chunk of our laws but the rightwingers will portray it as VE day mark II
No wonder Davis looks happy, he knows that the same gullible brexit voters will believe whatever murdoch, dacre, barclay bros etc tell them
If you are going to post anti-French conspiracy theories, dissonance, then I think you need to pick from the short list of Frenchmen who own several papers:
Michel Hommell (1944-) : presse de loisirs, automobile, sports…
Jean-Luc (1928-2003) et Arnaud Lagardère (1961-) : radio (Europe 1), télévision…
Bernard Arnault (1949-) : Les Échos, Le Parisien, Aujourd'hui en France.
Vincent Bolloré (1952-) : Canal+, CNews...
Pierre Berger (1930-) : Le Monde.
And give some examples of the damage done.
BEASTRABBAN.WORDPRESS.COM f you are going to post anti-French conspiracy theories, dissonance, then I think you need to pick from the short list of Frenchmen who own several papers:
Whoosh, the proprietor of the Daily Mail Group has a French domicile.
Rothermere is a British non-dom so not a Frenchman. The article rings false in that if he were declared resident in France he'd pay ISF which would defeat the non-dom tax avoidance objective.
Cummings doesnt have much faith in Dopey David Davis...
odysseanproject?
@odysseanprojectDD is manufactured exactly to specification as the perfect stooge for Heywood: thick as mince, lazy as a toad, & vain as Narcissus
1:58 PM - 17 Jul 2017
What does DD actually do?
The two sides are planning for four days of negotiations, with Mr Davis returning to Brussels on Thursday to take stock of progress and make preparations for the next round of talks.The UK minister left Brussels at around midday Brussels time, three hours after he arrived at the commission, with technical work to continue this afternoon in his absence.
Mr Davis headed back to London as tensions mount within the government over Brexit, pitting chancellor Philip Hammond against hardline Brexiters.
The upheaval has even sparked concerns in Brussels.
“It’s a mess. Nobody would want to see them like this,” said one European diplomat working on Brexit negotiations.
Ahh we're playing the sympathy card...
maybe it is time to put the old dog down, it really isn't fair to keep an animal suffering when it is clearly incapable.
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and if May isn't capable maybe it is for the best that the EU do it.
odysseanproject?
@odysseanproject
DD is manufactured exactly to specification as the perfect stooge for Heywood: thick as mince, lazy as a toad, & vain as Narcissus
1:58 PM - 17 Jul 2017
one wonders at the motivation of the guy, spewing such vitriol at those he effectively put in the driving seat. a conscience? i'd be surprised.
The vast majority of the now frothing Brexiteers amongst the general public were just getting on with fuming their way silently through their lives until that pillock Cameron went and asked the question. Now a lot of those frothing brexiteers are having second thoughts, but if a grown-up actually took control and said "it was all an infantile mistake" it would galvanise the brexiteers again.
There were many reasons why 'we' voted leave, but the things that underlies a lot of it is the sense that "fings was betta in the good old days". A lot of people genuinely thought Brexit would be the catalyst for a U.K. where street scenes only contained white faces, you were allowed to birch kids in schools and you could get jumping jacks for bonfire night.
The swivel-eyed Brexit loons in the Tory Party are trying to rush this farce through because it is becoming ever more apparent no one has a ****ing clue what they are doing and even that doesn't really matter because we have no decent cards to play in negotiations anyway.
In one of the many delicious ironies that I nowadays console myself with, the euro-haterz have pulled our pants down and handed the EU a cane with which to administer whatever punishment they see fit.
It's no wonder many satirical shows have stopped on TV and radio, when the reality is beyond parody there really isn't any point any more.
one wonders at the motivation of the guy, spewing such vitriol at those he effectively put in the driving seat. a conscience? i'd be surprised.
It's either massive arrogance , he reckons Brexit can only work if he's the 'genius' behind it, reading his blogs he's certain that everyone that ignores him is a obviously an idiot.
Or
He's trying to make sure that brexshit being a disaster is definitely not his fault.
Probably a mixture of the 2.
