[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Now I'm having trouble with your UK figure of 13% figure, Jamba.
Using exactly the dame method as for Holland, which gave a figure a lot lower than yours, I get a higher number for the UK.

Exports 466B/2861B x 100 = 16%

Been away all weekend, just catching up on the headlines...

Strong and Stable 😆

Far more apt, (if a bit gothy for a Monday)

Nobody knew leaving the EU could be so complicated, 😉

'Twas also just an example of how much more other EU nations need the EU than does the UK.

Analysis shows that the EU doesn't need the UK, but it's good to have as a trading partner if the terms are fair. The UK really needs the EU to avoid shortages.

Analysis shows that the EU doesn't need the UK,

(*net contribution figure before people start screaming about buses)

Wow finally he nearly gets it....
How much did the UK economy benefit from being in a free trade zone and common market? Then how much will leaving cost? That 8bn could be a very good investment really.

You, one way or another. 8)

edit: in answer to Ninfan.

jambalaya - Member
I have been on the winning side of [b]every[/b] major issue since I joined the forum in 2012

[img] [/img]

I think Jamba forgot he had François Fillon down as next French President earlier in this thread. And Marine Le Pen as the biggest party in the primaires.

[s]we have stuck two fingers up at their vanity project[/s] A minority of the UK population has stuck two fingers up at our closest trading allies.

FIFY

A minority of the UK population has stuck two fingers up at our closest trading allies.

The USA?

They EU is very poorly placed to handle the reduction in exports to the UK

Really? Why?

They've got far more people and businesses, and a far larger economy around which to spread the loss.

I think Jamba forgot he had François Fillon down as next French President earlier in this thread. And Marine Le Pen as the biggest party in the primaires.

Or that he [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/donald-trump#post-7057464 ]once said[/url] of Trump: [i]"Novelty value only, he has no chance of being elected."[/i]

But yeah... totally right all the time 😀

The USA?

Not even close

Yorkshire is the UK's biggest trading partner, till we get us freedom. Then we will only deal with those that are proper tight like Holland and Scotland.

@Graham indeed I did, Fillion was the predicted winner until Macron's buddies leaked the Penelope information (non-public tax records). IMO no charged will be filed but it's job done as Macron will win.

I do love the "never mind the quality fell the width" argument about the EU. Yup its 500m people many of whom are really quite poor and overall its a region with virtually no growth in world terms

@molgrips you may have noticed how negative I am on Europe's economic prospects and the looming eurozone catastrophe. That's why.

We trade wirh most of the rest of the workd under WTO, we can do the same with Europe.

Don't know why you don't think a shitload of red tape and extra tariffs won't make a difference...

and the looming eurozone catastrophe.

Surely it would've happened by now, brexies been banging on about it for years....

Meanwhile Brexits already cost UK households 500 quid a year- we haven't even got to May's cliff edge yet !!

I do love the "never mind the quality fell the width" argument about the EU. Yup its 500m people many of whom are really quite poor and overall its a region with virtually no growth in world terms

Mature economies grow less than developing, expecting the EU to keep up with the BRICS is quite insane TBH

Now lets look at the UK, some of the richest and poorest areas in Europe. More than half the population receive more than they pay in.

Productivity is pretty abysmal, as are GDP PPP etc etc.

i prefer listening to folk explain how an economy "risking" 4 % of its exports is in deep trouble where as one risking 44% of its has a fantastic opportunity to ride an arc of prosperity and will be much better off afterwards

Granted it has no facts to support it but that will not be holding you back.

Yup its 500m people many of whom are really quite poor and overall its a region with virtually no growth in world terms

But you're always fond of telling us how rich we all are in Europe...when justifying the victimisation of the poor. Make up your mind.

Another #jambafact

Watching Direct 5 where a panel has noted that Marine Le Pen has adopted a tactic I've already seen used by the Brexit team and Trump - the bare-faced lie. As the journalists are saying, how do you interview someone when she lies, you point out that the the stats/info being presented is false and she continues with the lie?

I predicted the other night that May and Davies' embarrassing lack of preparation and knowledge at he dinner would be spun today as the EU's inflexibility and bullying.

And right from this morning with Frasier Nelson, it's been this all day.

Losing control.

But you're always fond of telling us how rich we all are in Europe...when justifying the victimisation of the poor. Make up your mind.

Indeed.

The [url= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP) ]GDP (PPP) of the EU as a whole is the second highest in the world[/url], behind China but ahead of the US, India and Japan.

The [url= http://www.tradingeconomics.com/european-union/gdp-per-capita-ppp ]GDP per Capita (PPP) of the EU[/url] [i]is[/i] less impressive, granted, thanks to some comparatively poor members, but it is still twice the world average and its not really [i]that[/i] far behind our own (those 2015 figures show UK at $38509.21 and EU at $35630.30).

Nail on head.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/02/britain-complacency-brexit-humiliation--france-germany-eu-uk?CMP=fb_gu

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/02/britain-complacency-brexit-humiliation--france-germany-eu-uk?CMP=fb_gu

whenever you read any article you should look who wrote it, and see if there may be reasons why it was written other than the apparent gist of the article.

That article was written by Simon Tilford, who is deputy director of the centre for european reform ( https://www.cer.org.uk/personnel/simon-tilford) ,their aim is ( https://www.cer.org.uk/about)

"The Centre for European Reform is a think-tank devoted to making the European Union work better and strengthening its role in the world. The CER is pro-European but not uncritical"

So bearing the above in mind of course he would say what he said in that article. I dont think his view can be taken as impartial in this debate.

I dont think his view can be taken as impartial in this debate.

You can make that claim for 80% of stuff written about this Brexit debacle

You can make that claim for 80% of stuff written about this Brexit debacle

true

"The Centre for European Reform is a think-tank devoted to making the European Union work better and strengthening its role in the world. The CER is pro-European but not uncritical"

I think the key words here are 'reform' and 'not uncritical'.

We trade wirh most of the rest of the workd under WTO, we can do the same with Europe.

not without introducing additional complexity and cost, which you appear either to not have any knowledge of, or don't care about. which is it, just out of interest?

Be fair to Jamba he's a money man. As I understand it his background is not in trade or industry merely investment (though he has a little computing too I think), so he wouldn't have knowledge of some of the difficulties for others trying to work internationally.

Just as I can't understand how IT types seem incapable of getting anything right (posted via an iPhone on a web forum).

Nipper99 - Member
Nail on head.

The EU bureaucrats are thickos aren't they, never learned and never will. 😆

So bearing the above in mind of course he would say what he said in that article. I dont think his view can be taken as impartial in this debate.

I don't think that's entirely fair. He didn't become the deputy director by accident, did he? I doubt he was completley neutral about the EU until that job dropped in his lap and they started to brainwash him.

I rather suspect that he already had a pro-EU opinion before he took the job. It is reasonable that someone with a pro-EU stance would write an anti-Brexit article. The piece is very clearly opinion, and it even says that in the top right.

Amuse me Chewkw, when exactly have the EU bullied the U.K.?

Anyway my mate Bob (remember him) from Hartlepool has taken voluntary redundancy and as he says 4 months wages tax free you can't save that sort of money? And he has himself a kitchen Portesham job lined up at a local pub/restaurant on £7.50 an hour - not quite the Brexit he expected but he is happy at the moment as he no longer needs to drive to work.

See simple problems need simple solutions - chuck em a bag of peanuts then handful each day... one day they hope they will get a another bag of peanuts..

Meanwhile rich folks count theiron peanut warehouses. Gotta love the great unwashed...

This thread has become a proxy for whinning about the Tory Government for some. Fact is 5 weeks from now they are going to have a huge Brexit mandate and a majority not seen for 20+ years.

Services are tariff free. There is no complication. The avergae WTO tariff is 3%, the currency move has more than compensated for that wrt exports and anything which discourages imports is a benefit to the uk economy. In the whole WTO will protect our farmers and fishermen. Molgrips I find it hard to imagine how our businesses, the vast majority of which doen't export to the EU will find the bureacracy worse. The businessman who spoke at the vote Leave launch event I went to listed regularion after regulation which were drafted for some niche European country's benefit which had zero relevance in the UK.

@dd May was perfectly prepared for the Junker meeting. Law Lords analysis that there is no legal basis for a "Brexit Bill". None. A willingness and desire to agree a deal for UK citizens / EU nationals by June ("too complicated says EU will take much longer"). A desire for a broad free trade agreement.

May was perfectly prepared for the Junker meeting.

#jambafact

EDIT: you're also showing that you don't understand the implications of "going WTO". But you're not alone. Neither do most Brexiteers.

...when they are bullying UK ...

🙄

By "bullying" you mean not allowing the UK to have its cake and eat it (as Boris famously said)?

That's like saying I'm bullying burglars by locking my door!

In the whole WTO will protect our farmers and fishermen.

I can't see how removing the hefty EU tariffs (the ones you yourself decry as "protectionism") that protect our farmers from cheap mass-produced meat from countries with lower welfare standards and intensive farming will make life better for our farmers.

listed regularion after regulation which were drafted for some niche European country's benefit

So the tune starts to change and The Great Copy-Paste Bill becomes The Great Get Rid Of Regulations We Don't Like Without Public Scrutiny Bill.

I believe the main ones highlighted recently were the Working Time Directive, incandescent light bulbs, inefficient motors for hoovers, and the ability to kill endangered newts.

If I was a U.K. farmer, I'd be very worried right now. May will sell them down the river in a heartbeat.

Well post Brexit I think the EU can make some positive changes:

Ban RHD vehicles with immediate effect. Road safety will benefit.
Add Britain to the list of rogue financial states (it should already be on the list) in which holding bank accounts is illegal for EU citizens.
Double, hell triple, taxe foncière and habitation for non EU property owners in Europe.
Make Type approval and EC certificate testing in EU based test facilities obligatory for all non EU goods.

8) 😀
😛

Yup, that's tongue in cheek, but until measures like that are on the agenda I think British politicians (and citizens) would do well to shut up about bullying.

Services are tariff free. There is no complication. The avergae WTO tariff is 3%, the currency move has more than compensated for that wrt exports and anything which discourages imports is a benefit to the uk economy. In the whole WTO will protect our farmers and fishermen.

o rly?

wto is 10% on cars, 12% on wheat estimates range form an extra [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/what-would-brexit-mean-for-british-trade/ ]40-165bn a year cost[/url] to uk non-service exports

services are still restricted, -passporting and other banking regs, other barriers include certifcation etc energy markets not fully opened up

opening it up is an [url= https://ec.europa.eu/commission/priorities/internal-market_en ]ongoing project[/url] we will now be outside of

we will also be outside of the EUs new digital Single Market which is still under development and worth >400bn accross the EU
yes we will be transcribing the new laws but into our statute books but one of the great unresolveds of brexit is will we be changing our laws to match the EUs as they constantly evolve?
The new digital disputes platform will be essential to compete globally but presumably require ECJ oversight,

its the same conundrums over and over, leaving the EU makes us less competitive in an ever more interconnected and integrated world

maybe we can tie ourselves to the the US as its growth slows and the EUs speeds up ?

same deal with pharma as we leave the EMA we look set to loose our status as the worlds 3rd largest destination for Pharma R&D investment, the big drug companies are looking to relocate staff already, how much of their 15bn a year will the uk economy loose?

May will be bloody tough 🙄 but we all know thats just empty bluster for her gullible brexies supporters

so many stumbling blocks and questions
-
Mays 'cards to her chest' stance so obviously means - keep quiet till after the GE when the compromises can begin in earnest

Has the eurozone imploded yet by the way?

[url= http://www.marke****ch.com/story/eurozone-current-account-surplus-hits-record-high-2017-04-21 ]Eurozone surplus hits record high.[/url]

In order to keep his 100% record on everything it has to happen soon

Its always dawniest before the dark Ed.