Whichever flavour of government we have, its first duty is protection of its citizens
Why should they start now? Neither major party, once in power, has ever truly done that. They are hamstrung by short term myopia brought on by looking towards the next election.
honouring manifesto pledges?
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/20-broken-being-promises-tories-10371384
Honesty?
both remainers
both respected the result
both now committed to ending our membership
both increased their share of the vote on this mandate
which bit do you need to cherry pick?
So kimbers - these people are not to be trusted on their word? Good job we had a referendum then. We heard from the people directly.
And one is a conviction politician who is therefore to be believed. So I’m told. The other is progressing towards delivering the mandate. Tried to pitch a sensible FTA but didn’t get the backing. So we get what we deserve.
That is cherry picking, you picked out Corbyn as a conviction politician as a way to characterise him and his views.
You neglect to specify what May is
Make a vague statement about mandates etc.
It's a punnet of grade A Cherries there.
Then the extrapolation of an election result where people voted for many things like kicking out the other side. Not everyone who voted tory or Labour supported Brexit and opinion polls show that currently with a majority who would not support that a number which is greater than the votes for Tory or Labour.
We heard from the people directly.
And who's word did they trust to guide them, on either side of the vote? Ah yes, those self same politicians who are not to be trusted on their word.
well actually yes, no one trusts them
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/politicians-remain-least-trusted-profession-britain
& if TWOTP has changed, then who are they to argue
both increased their share of the vote on this mandate
I am confused now. Not only was there a special referendum which went into far more detail on the question paper than the paper I got (judging by the confidence people have in talking about what people voted for) but there was also a different general election ballot paper which made it clear that the only thing that counted was the EU position and one that was fixed in time at that.
Its that or you are cherry picking positions and claiming that people voted for every single policy made.
Wonder what it can be?
Bit of an arse for the brexit lot though since the referendum results will need to be binned off based on some of the other tory manifesto claims in the last parliament.
Less of a conviction politician. Does that help? Next thing you know I will be pretending that Brexit is a Tory thing.
Is it bad form to be nice about Corbyn now? Honestly, you guys really flip flop a lot.
So kimbers lots more referendums since our representatives are a waste of time and can’t be trusted. Blimey. Good for post counts at least.
You neglect to specify what May is
Mummmmmmmyyyyyyyyy
Not sure about yours diss but mine was simple
remain a member of the EU (tick)
Leave the Eu (blank)
so confident what the result meant. Leave the EU sadly. And that is what is happening
Is it bad form to be nice about Corbyn now? Honestly, you guys really flip flop a lot.
Is it essential to flip around and attack one thing on each post without providing any useful content?
Winding the clock down seems to be appropriate.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">teamhurtmore
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<div class="bbp-reply-content">So kimbers lots more referendums since our representatives are a waste of time and can’t be trusted. Blimey.
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well I didnt open Pandoras populism box!
I still think a (shitty) deal is most likely outcome, no deal is just silly & would lead to another ref, imho
You tell me mike.
Not sure about yours diss but mine was simple
I thought you abstained?
They both stood in the GE on the mandate of ending the UKs membership of the EU.
Page 24- 27
They "accept the result" of the referendum. Which means nothing. I accept the result, it is what it is. I accept that x million voted that way, x million the other. I also think it was a stupid question with a stupid debate, pretending the result is mandate for anything is ridiculous and that it's not in our best interests to leave.
Back to the manifesto, there's loads in there about how great the EU is, how much benefit it's given us, how many aspects they want to keep, what priorities they would keep to the fore during negotiations.
All the room in the world to say "We have always had these a) - h) as our priorities, as negotiations have progressed, it has become more and more clear that the impacts of leaving on the different arrangements available, all deliver less favourable outcomes than remaining in the EU, and here's why, in order:..."
Would be a lot more coherent than the current approach, which only makes sense if you assume May thinks a favourable Brexit is impossible, and wants to make it look like she's doing everything possible to make it happen for long enough for the facts to make themselves known and for the tide to turn.
Again drac you thought wrong
Next thing you know I will be pretending that Brexit is a Tory thing.
Next thing you know you will be making out that CallMe Dave... err... called the referendum!
So this wasn't you?
I take it back. Apologies and well remembered. My bad. 😳
unlike our leading politicians I am clearly not a man - or woman (mike) - of conviction. I voted remain rather than abstaining
😏
unlike our leading politicians I am clearly not a man – or woman (mike) – of conviction.
and one day you will be able to create a post without a cheap did in it.
Toi aussi
I thought you abstained?
Hard to tell how he voted as he's never mentioned it.
Nice try cougs but not up to dracs elevated standard.
Not least because here, as usual, you are not telling the truth. Clear trend maintained but not as extreme as earlier
which is a shame because you could have had a nice point to develop but you blew it in haste.
nice edit BTW
I thought that was sarcasm...
I thought that was sarcasm…
Not even subtle. Too subtle for some though.
Again drac you thought wrong
Mol. You needed to see the post pre edit. Leave DD to the snide stuff
I thought that was sarcasm…
I'm utterly amazed that anyone would think otherwise.
nice edit BTW
I edited mine in response to you editing yours first, as you'd then answered my question in your edit. Nice edit, BTW.
Well I'm impressed that you edited out the untrue bit. Progress.
I’m utterly amazed that anyone would think otherwise.
Theres always somebody.
Well I’m impressed that you edited out the untrue bit. Progress.
I asked a question. "Have you been lying or did you change your mind?" Which you answered in your edit, you'd changed your mind. Far as I can see the only untrue bit is you saying I said something which was untrue. How very meta.
Anyone else as bored with this exchange as I am now?
Anyone else as bored with this exchange as I am now?
I'm just hanging round waiting for the government link.
YGM before your post BTW
yes
Mol. Liddington answered your question ^ as reported in The Guardian. He went with (1) too although I expect this is part of the negotiation (about time too). Ruled out (2) too!
the follow on article about Barniers non availability is very familiar to anyone who has read Varoufakis' accounts
Not a fan of Peston generally but downloaded his book WTF for a holiday read. His thoughts on Brexit in chapter one "dear Dad" are interesting so far and an easy read
Mol. Liddington answered your question ^ as reported in The Guardian. He went with (1) too although I expect this is part of the negotiation (about time too). Ruled out (2) too!
the follow on article about Barniers non availability is very familiar to anyone who has read Varoufakis’ accounts
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45344203
"With exactly seven months until the end of Article 50 process and less than two months ahead of the October European Council, we face the choice between the pragmatic proposals we are discussing now with the European Commission, or the risk of there being no deal.
"The alternative models do not meet the level of ambition or the outcome we all want to see delivered.
"So, we need the EU to engage with us on our positive vision of the future relationship."
His message was softened from a version of the speech released to journalists beforehand, which had simply warned of "no deal".
So back to strong arm threats to walk away tactics, that will end well I feel.
No wonder they don't see much point in having pointless meetings if the UK has set out it's position. Nothing left to negotiate if the deal is not acceptable to the EU.
Dominic Raab, the Brexit secretary, has expressed his frustration to EU officials over Michel Barnier’s alleged failure to make himself available for face-to-face talks.
Despite the EU negotiator’s claims that he was available “24-7” for talks, Barnier was said to have been resistant to requests for lengthy meetings with Raab to discuss the details of the UK’s proposals, hammered out at Chequers.
The British cabinet minister was granted only a two-hour meeting with Barnier last week, and was initially offered only a three-hour slot this Friday, due to the former French minister’s diary constraints, the Guardian has learned.
But?
But Mr Raab told a Lords Committee he had a "good professional and personal rapport" with Mr Barnier.
And he would be holding a "long" meeting with him on Friday.
Mr Raab vowed to increase the pace and frequency of talks with Mr Barnier when he took over in July from David Davis, who quit as Brexit Secretary in protest at Theresa May's white paper on trade with the EU when Britain leaves.
"I'm confident that a deal is within our sights," Mr Raab told the Lords EU Committee. "We're bringing ambition, pragmatism, energy and if, and I expect it will be, and if it is matched, we get a deal."
Seems like we have spent a long time arguing over stuff we were always going to have to agree to and now want to piss about asking for things we are not going to get.
It's not inspiring much confidence there.
It’s not inspiring much confidence there.
Dont worry the grown ups have got it all under control. It will be fine.
Pure coincidence (on multiple occasions now) that talk of hard Brexit brings an immediate response from Barnier - but again experience (ours and Greeks) suggest that any accommodatingbabd conciliatory tone will be a bluff
hopefully we can finally stick to a FTA or hard Brexit for the final hurdle
Pure coincidence (on multiple occasions now) that talk of hard Brexit brings an immediate response from Barnier
Is that because he knows the UK needs to get something and he can help to cross some things off our list to get closer to his list?
hopefully we can finally stick to a FTA or hard Brexit for the final hurdle
It would just be quicker to ask him what will work and then persuade the SEL's that it's that or nothing.
Do we know if ministers like liddlington are trying to convince, the EU, the British public or the rest of the Tory party with their hard brexit bluff, thing is no one seems to believe them !
It's funny that such a binary mandate has left the Government unable to formulate a coherent stratagey
Except and importantly Barnier ?
no need to bluff non-democrats. Their objective is clear.
no need to bluff non-democrats. Their objective is clear.
No need to keep repeating it unless you think May & the rest of the Tories are going to listen to you.
We all knew the blindingly obvious. We are negotiating against a stone wall, it's exactly what we predicted (but was labelled Project Fear) So we can wail about threatening a Hard Brexit but the EU knows how much pain that will cause the UK and is happy to hold firm.
The UK will be offered the deal the EU wants and then the hard thinking comes in for May and the Tories, sell a deal or bail. Assuming there will be only 2 choices is short sighted.
I support democracy. What I don't support is stupid referendums.
As I keep saying, democracy isn't one single thing. It's a concept, and has different implementations.
Yes and by behavjng as we did we made the result worse not that people will take responsibility for that
First off who are you replying too?
What behaviour are you talking about?
What has been made worse?
What should have been done differently ?
Can someone post something at 3am .
THM will have to stay up all night tio disagree with it.
How many times do these idiots need their threat of Hard Brexit thrown back at them? Anyone who’d recommend that threat as a negotiating topic is naïve at best, but more likely a bit silly and not very experienced at negotiating.
Some interesting tweets from German and French commentators this week, as well as from official accounts. For them it seems the integrity of the single market shall not be compromised. I dunno - they said this from the beginning. The idiots have threatened HB every so often, and they get roughly the same response. And then they try it again. A sign of madness? I suppose we’re used to broken promises from our lot - we just assume they’ll break theirs too.
We haven’t even got round to the possibility of an Irish veto yet. 😀
Has Turkey joined yet?
I’m guessing the Eurozone meltdown is scheduled for Monday now is it?
When will the German car industry save us...that’s long overdue.
When does the WTO fun start…?
Any one been following these?
It's OK Kelvin, the EU knows we will risk everything on hard brexit no deal to get the deal we want. No chance they have read up on all these rules. I mean the UK government doesn't seem to have bothered. I mean I'd have been making sure all the Hard Brexit fans had hard copies of the implications sent to them and anybody interviewing them with highlighted talking points in order to remind them of the implications of getting out of line.
But they won't accept the consequences. They'll just wave it away and deny the problem.
Well I bet if you tried you could make a few of them squirm a little more than they have been recently.
The EU is prepared to offer a post-Brexit deal with the U.K. that is unlike anything it has struck with any country outside the bloc, chief negotiator Michel Barnier said Wednesday, leading to a 0.8 percent jump in the value of sterling against the dollar.
Whats this all about then ?
Well first question is where did the quote come from?
The people talking down the UK's ability to get a good deal makes me want to defecate in disgust.
The negotiations are being purposely sabotaged by remainiacs who would rather see the UK starving than admit that brexit is actually in the national interest. Headline after headline, day after day of armageddon scenarios of no deal from project fear paid for by sweatshop owners and gangsters. And many on here have just been lapping it up and regurgitating it adding to the cycle of doom. You might think that your own pathetic words of doom have no impact on politicians hundreds of miles away but you would be wrong. We are all digitally connected and you are spreading fear and sabotaging your country. Its no surprise that Raab is bricking it, Barnier must be laughing his cock off.
No doubt a no deal situation would be tough, it would take time to resolve but the UK will still thrive without it and it won't be the end of the world, and some day soon the whole of the UK will be a lot better for it.
I still think a good deal is possible, there's too much at stake for the EU. If there is no deal Barnier will have failed which will have many consequences, not least making it less likely that he will get Drunckers job which he was after. No £40 billion pay off. The EU will lose tens of billions of trade (don't for one second think that people will still buy German cars at 10% more expensive, at anything like the numbers we used to). The EU countries are already facing an increased membership fee to make up the cost of the Uk contribution when it would clearly make more sense to reduce costs (our rebate was on borrowed time). A UK no deal would be another nail in the coffin for the doomed EU project. And resentment for the EU by the UK would be high meaning there is much more chance of the UK taking on a more aggressive tax regime which would undercut EU countries and the UK would be more likely to boycott EU products.
The Norway deal is exactly what we don't want. That is a shit deal if ever I saw one, they have most of the regulations but without a say. Norway is a small country with a small gdp not like ours. As an aside they voted twice to stay out and have ended up with a shit deal as a result of their politicians not respecting the referendum. Thats what you miserable lot are taking us towards.
The Canada style deal with services and no Irish border is the best possible option, the chequers deal should have been buried a long time ago. Fingers crossed that miserable witch May gets canned sooner rather than later and we can get someone that actually believes in Britain's future in charge.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
dickens earlier
That's beautiful. Haha!
TNUMTWNT
The German car industry...
BoardinBob +1 😂
DOD - don’t go posting anything positive now
see you at three zippy
‘‘Twas from dependant.
The people talking down the UK’s ability to get a good deal makes me want to defecate in disgust.
If we looked like we had anyone who knew what they were doing, I might have a bit more faith in the UK's ability.
The only way you can have a positive view of what's been going on (publicly) is to base your reaction on emotion. You don't like the EU so you automatically support those who are 'on your side' even if they look crap.
As for believing in Britain's future - I did, til you lot wrecked it!
Though Mr Barnier has repeatedly said the bloc is ready to offer its “most ambitious” free trade agreement ever to Britain, markets appeared to interpret his latest comments as suggesting he was close to a deal – causing sterling to jump up by 1 per cent.
“We are prepared to offer a partnership with Britain such as has never been with any other third country,” the negotiator told reporters following a meeting with the German foreign minister in Berlin.
But Theresa May’s unofficial Brexit minister David Lidington, who coordinates Cabinet activity around leaving the EU, said the UK would only accept the Chequers deal or a no-deal.
Ah it's OK to see the deal on the table and then tell them to f off we want our deal!!
DOD – don’t go posting anything positive now
It is positive, shame the UK side said we don't want that. Barnier just made it clear the EU has rules and lines and they will not cross them. They are in charge.
Has Turkey joined yet?
I’m guessing the Eurozone meltdown is scheduled for Monday now is it?
When will the German car industry save us…that’s long overdue.
You forgot conscripting our children into the EU army. I think that starts next Wednesday.
If we looked like we had anyone who knew what they were doing, I might have a bit more faith in the UK’s ability.
The only way you can have a positive view of what’s been going on (publicly) is to base your reaction on emotion. You don’t like the EU so you automatically support those who are ‘on your side’ even if they look crap.
molgrips - I admit they are crap, but imagine going in to a negotiation knowing that you HAVE to get a deal. And even worse those who you are negotiating with know you have to get a deal. Do you not see how that makes it nearly impossible to get a deal?
Raab and May are not on my side I can assure you of that. But they are the only ones in the negotiation, if we don't support them by giving them the option of a no deal scenario they are screwed. I think thats exactly what people on here want but the reality is theres no going back now. Theres no chance we will be going back in, no chance. Don't ask for a source there isn't one but it won't happen. So if we're not careful we'll end up with a Norway deal which is bad for everyone.
Oh and the UK's negotiating successes so far should give us an illustration as to how trade negotiations could go.
You forgot conscripting our children into the EU army. I think that starts next Wednesday.
onewheelgood - you are quite the comedian. Everyone knows that right now project fear 2 has the monopoly on ludicrous claims.
molgrips – I admit they are crap, but imagine going in to a negotiation knowing that you HAVE to get a deal. Do you not see how that makes it nearly impossible to get a deal?
So you missed all the pages were we pointed out that this would happen. Where this was entirely predictable and one of the reasons why leaving was such a stupid idea.
And many on here have just been lapping it up and regurgitating it adding to the cycle of doom. You might think that your own pathetic words of doom have no impact on politicians hundreds of miles away but you would be wrong. We are all digitally connected and you are spreading fear and sabotaging your country. Its no surprise that Raab is bricking it, Barnier must be laughing his cock off.
Wow. Thread on Singletrack forum directly responsible for U.K. government’s negotiation failure shocker.
Dawn arrests due in Todmorden tomorrow. 😲
I’m loving the panic in Dicken’s posts. The reality is setting in for the Brexiteers. There’s more fear and doom in his last couple of posts than any of the supposed remainder project fear propaganda
Well clearly dickens, since the EU know it's in THEIR interest that we get a deal, we will get one won't we? Won't we?
Thread on Singletrack forum directly responsible for U.K. government’s negotiation failure shocker.
I was was convinced he was an alias but now I reckon he’s just some random Russian type troll who scans the internet looking for outlets to troll
The negotiations are being purposely sabotaged by remainiacs who would rather see the UK starving than admit that brexit is actually in the national interest.
I may be a comedian but I'm not just batshit crazy.
We are all still waiting for a leaver to explain how brexit is good for Britain. So far, in 1237 pages of this thread, and in all the other coverage, no one has managed to do that. But apparently this is our fault for not believing hard enough. Dream on, Tinkerbell.
The people talking down the UK’s ability to get a good deal makes me want to defecate in disgust.
Crack on, then roll around in it coz “yer fu’ o’ shit” (to paraphrase a well versed local saying)
All in jest really as we all realise you are a piss-poor troll, or the equivalent of “that” guy at the end of the bar who gets shown the door
Well clearly dickens, since the EU know it’s in THEIR interest that we get a deal, we will get one won’t we? Won’t we?
slowoldman you are living up to your username here. Of course it is in there interest, but if they can get away with bleeding us dry why wouldn't they? They hung those poor buggers in Greece out to dry and I don't for a moment think they won't try it with us. A deal is not impossible but project fear 2 is sabotaging it. Do you deny that?
We are all still waiting for a leaver to explain how brexit is good for Britain
Yup, it can’t be that hard since apparently 17m voted for it, I’d have hoped for one or two things may have been raised.
Although this could be a bubble we are in,
As an aside a mate mentioned oranges apparently will be cheaper.
A deal is impossible but project fear 2 is sabotaging it. Do you deny that?
So is project fear 2 sabotaging us not getting a deal?
Most of us have said the deal any of the brexiters wanted was impossible. That isn't news to us
That Dickens post is genius!😂😂😂😂😂😂