[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Every cloud and all that..

at least there won't be any more "A Place in the Sun, Home or Away" on the telebox

It'll be "A place in the slightly warmer rain"

what's going to happen when we give Trump a trade deal - shit loads of crap cheap food that will swamp our agricultural businesses and other food suppliers.

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Boris was absolutely correct (Gove too), it's The Great Escape. If the snowflakes can't stand a joke about the war they should take it up with Basil Fawlty.

Yes it does feel like Basil is running the show these days, with a healthy dose of Alan Partridge, Ninfan is about to start on 'spine in a bap' 😉

Ninfan - food in the US generally is a heck of a lot worse than the horsemeat scandal.

cornholio98 - Member
chewkw you do understand that Ireland being part of the EU will only be able to give us the same deal as we get from the rest of the EU. This being one of the prime points of the EU is that everyone is equal within it and no two countries can make a special deal. One of the reasons why people keep saying we have to get out..

Yes, I know. What if we favour the Irish to let them be like normal perhaps all they got to do is wave their passport to get through or we issue them some quick "permanent permit" to let them pass through as they wish. They don't have to return the favour if they do not wish to because they need EU permission. How about that?

Yes, there will be check points somewhere to check papers etc but if they have the "permanent permit" it should be like waving at check point. A bit like toll booth ...

We can do anything we want on our side and let in workers etc to the UK but they do not have the same luxury (or to the same extent as they have as well as us currently do have immigration controls). When we finally leave there will have to be a re-establishment of the border just as there will be at the channel tunnel etc.

Yes, we can let the Irish in so long as they are Irish how about that? I know you lot are going to argue passport is too cumbersome to carry everyday so how about other form of identification? A bit like bus pass perhaps? Again if any EU people want to sneak in at least there is a chance of catching them yes? 😆

Look at some of the people who work in Singapore and Malaysia they have to cross the boarder everyday ... no problem there.

. It would have been trivial for the EU to say the same.

Of course it wouldn't, once the UK is out it's up to each EU country to decide what it does with UK nationals not the EU. The collective agreement no longer applies. Just as each country decides what to do with Americans or Syrians now. Post Brexit Brits could even claim refugee status if they demonstrate they are persecuted in the UK.

Post Brexit Brits could even claim refugee status if they demonstrate they are persecuted in the UK.

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Yes, we can let the Irish in so long as they are Irish how about that? I know you lot are going to argue passport is too cumbersome to carry everyday so how about other form of identification? A bit like bus pass perhaps? Again if any EU people want to sneak in at least there is a chance of catching them yes?

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/18/retired-britons-eu-return-campaigners-pensioners-spain-healthcare ]At least brexit will reduce the number of workshy health tourists coming here.[/url]

At least brexit will reduce the number of workshy health tourists coming here.

most folks Buy a BMW as a social statement and will stand a 10% increase in their monthly lease cost

They'll just tick less option boxes tbh.

seosamh77 - Member

Looking at Brexit from a non partisan angle. When negotating with the EU with regards to things like "any deal must be lesser than EU memebership", that I'm seeing on the news.. Is that actually going to be the case?

If the UK turn round and says right, no deal. See ye. Things then develop into negotiating on a country by country basis. The question then becomes, will the EU stand together? Will the Germans forgo punting cars into the UK, true they can just pay the tariffs, but what's the likely hood of that lasting forever? Soon as the Germans do a deal, basically gives the rest of the countries in the EU the green light to negotiate individually?

Nope - EU members can only negotiate EU wide deals. No individual ones as I remember

Yes, I know. What if we favour the Irish to let them be like normal perhaps all they got to do is wave their passport to get through or we issue them some quick "permanent permit" to let them pass through as they wish.

That may well be what happens, but you'll still need some identity checks and a way to enforce customs/taxes, import/export rules etc.

The bigger issue is introducing a hard border with checkpoints and armed patrols - not exactly a welcome sight in Ireland!

As we are a major importer paying a large fee and accepting freedom of movement which is heavily biased to immigration into the UK makes no sense to me at all.

The alternative view - we are a major trading economy; EU member states represent some of our most important trading partners; for a very small fee (1% GDP) we can have full access to this market; this allows goods and services, capital and people to move freely across these markets which brings us v important benefits (increased volumes, addresses labour shortages etc); we can also participate in shaping how these markets work and have a structure for resolving disputes; this makes perfect sense to me.

The alternative: as a major trading economy, we wish to make trading with some of our most important partners more difficult and more costly; we want to limit the extent to which goods and service, capital and people can move (lower volumes, make addressing labour shortages more difficult); have no say in how these markets work (despite still having to cow-tow to THEIR regulations) and lose the structure for resolving disputes so that we can: save a very small amount of money; reduce the number of people who make a positive impact on our economy and pretend that we have more control over what we do; makes no sense at all.

Yeah, but we get rid of all the foreigners that have swamped the NHS, taken the good jobs, send child benefit to Poland, get all rid of the meddling EU bureaucracy and regain our freedomz through globalisations innit..

But making the final decision via mod rule? Barking.

I thought we agreed that you lot do quite a good job!!

Bollocks, well spotted. (-:

It'll all balance out when we send all the Spanish pensioners who are taking advantage of the quality of life they can find in Bournmouth and Llandudo.

Indeed. Not to mention all the French and Italians who came here for the food and high culture.

it people dont take the time to understand then that is their look out.
...
The difficult and technical bit is the next stage. I am happy to delegate that to the experts.

So wait what, aren't these two statements at odds?

The people want to live on Jupiter, whether that's feasible or not is their lookout. But the people have spoken, so I'll leave it to the experts to make it happen.

we have a mod on this thread who warned us not to go off on tangents and immediately goes onto the relative merits of holding a referendum which we moved on from weeks ago.

Shitehawk. (-:

Point was, "missed something" and "hey, maramalade" are perhaps not comparable.

Cougar my wife's first and second choice countries of residence are neither France nor UK. We both have no doubt we could live freely in either France or UK if we wished on our current passports.

Apologies, I hastily assumed that where you were living was by choice (and by extension, I assumed that you were living in the UK?).

So your wife is living in what, her third choice of country at best? Where does she want to be?

We both have no doubt we could live freely in either France or UK if we wished on our current passports.

What about post-Brexit, when freedom of movement goes out of the window? Reckon you could live in France then? Or, y'know, even get there simply?

What is your OH's view on Brexit, btw? For or against?

captainsasquatch - Member
We could even let a few of them stay if they don't want to travel every day. If that's a success we could perhaps open it up to other countries too. It'd be cool to allow people to move across borders without hassle.

As a Brit living in another EU country I am not in anyway frightened of getting kicked out and feel in no way supported by the UK government. The May speach seems to have totally lost the plot as why would one want to threaten or piss off anyone that you were trying to negotiate with? It is not a war. It is the U.K. deciding it did not want to be part of the club but still wants access to the cheap bar.

Crazy that people wonder why Europeans want to come to the U.K. to work. Because there are jobs that they can do and get paid for, because our economy has jobs that need filling and more jobs generally mean more tax and a growing economy.

The only group that the UK is at war with is its self. From the outside it all looks very bizarre.

Not just the outside

It is not a war.

Give it time. Boris Johnson's already on the case.

If BJ is organising a war we're probably safe. If he's organising peace - worry.

GEDA - Member
The May speach seems to have totally lost the plot as why would one want to threaten or piss off anyone that you were trying to negotiate with? It is not a war. It is the U.K. deciding it did not want to be part of the club but still wants access to the cheap bar.

Ex-PM Cameron did not even get anyway for being nice when he "begged" the EU to accommodate the British views or concerns. Instead he was bullied and brushed aside by the EU bureaucrats.

PM May speech was polite, reasonable and honest. UK do not want to get bad deal so do others and there is no need to hide that fact say it as it is.

Crazy that people wonder why Europeans want to come to the U.K. to work. Because there are jobs that they can do and get paid for, because our economy has jobs that need filling and more jobs generally mean more tax and a growing economy.

Nobody is denying that but there must be some form of controls yet when ex-PM Cameron suggested that might not be a good idea EU bullied him like a clown.

The only group that the UK is at war with is its self. From the outside it all looks very bizarre.

The other group that is at war with UK is the one that want to bully their own British PM. Yes, I agree totally bizarre ...

It's good chewkw has it all sorted out. Someone we can rely on. To be fair he sounds no worse than Boris.

The only group that the UK is at war with is its self.

If only that was true.
It is not contained within the UK, you only have to remember Farage at Trump rallies to be reminded of that.

The bullying the PM (or trying to) is a grand British tradition going way back. If you don't have that, you don't have democracy.
Just like Farage bullied Cameron for example. Now Farage is an evil nutter but he is allowed to bully the PM. 'Tis how it works

Chewk, the thing is there was never a right to come to the UK and stay, Westminster as per normal was incompetent in applying the rules.

I ask you who wins from leaving the EU. Will it be the poor or the 1%?

slowoldman - Member
It's good chewkw has it all sorted out. Someone we can rely on. To be fair he sounds no worse than Boris.

Did the British people vote for a lamb to be slaughtered by EU bureaucrats?

Nope. They voted for a local MP to represent their interests.

Cameron actually did quite well with the EU. We already had a special deal and he got a little bit more. Not bad.

Not enough for the Brexy bullies, but not bad.

mrmo - Member
Chewk, the thing is there was never a right to come to the UK and stay, Westminster as per normal was incompetent in applying the rules.

Yes, but if you have voted for a lamb then prepare to be slaughtered.

I ask you who wins from leaving the EU. Will it be the poor or the 1%?

igm - Member
Nope. They voted for a local MP to represent their interests.

Then when the real opportunity was presented to the people they grabbed it instantly ...

chewkw - Member
It will be prosperous for all.

Well my pay's gone up significantly since the vote. 😉

Chewkw - you wish to butcher MPs? Probably a bad idea to say that, particularly for a Brexy like yourself - Brexies do have form on that sort of thing. That said if it's more of a figurative butchering feel free. Julian Sturdy if you are looking for a name.

It will be prosperous for all

I've still lost my rights though, haven't I?

molgrips - Member

It will be prosperous for all

I've still lost my rights though, haven't I?

What else do you want if you have retained your rights?

Strange that local MPs who are elected democratically don't represent the will of the people Chewkw- thing is they represent the people who could be arsed to actually vote in a "proper" election.
I have said it many times before the section of society at the bottom end voted for Brexit but going forward they have NO political power and sure as shit don't have control over the fiscal policy of an incumbent Tory government. Local MPS on the whole do not need to bend over for the local Brexit vote at the next GE as most of them won't get out of bed to go and vote and if they do it will be for UKIP which will only strengthen the Tory heartland vote and domination of parliament.
Mrs May and her peers don't give a **** about piss poor people- they are happy to sacrifice there quality of life to prove a point. As much as I dislike what Maggie did at least she was a conviction politician not like the current shape shifting charlatans whos only concern is the next GE and not the well being of the majority. Chewk I hope you have a good job and some significant assets.

oldmanmtb - Member
Mrs May and her peers don't give a **** about piss poor people- they are happy to sacrifice there quality of life to prove a point. As much as I dislike what Maggie did at least she was a conviction politician not like the current shape shifting charlatans whos only concern is the next GE and not the well being of the majority.

Do you live in an obscure nation where the PM does not care about their own people?

Do you even for one second think that the British PM does not care about the British people.

ALL the British PMs past and present care about the British people otherwise they have no political career at all.

Have you been sleeping all these years?

Chewk I hope you have a good job and some significant assets.

Ex-PM Cameron got bullied by EU bureaucrats yet took all the beating silently..

I seem to remember reading a piece summarising the decisions made in the EU parliament which showed the UK were on the winning side in the vast majority of votes.

I would look it up, but you seem to be pointedly ignoring replies that contain too many facts, so I can't be bothered

DrJ should have added the caveat that the offer was on the basis it was reciprocated, she and other Ministers have made the offer many times including shortly after the Referendum. Also see point 6 in PM May's letter below. Edukator makes a good point that it maybe (is) up to the individual countries to approve in which case I am even more confident it will be sorted.

Bullying ? In May's speech ? That's just ridiculous. Listen to all the rhetoric from the EU. May just stated the obvious, we are leaving the EU and the single market, we want tomsee the EU being successful, we want to keep trading with you. However no deal is better than nomdeal andnwhy should we not adopt the same tax policies as Ireland and Luxembourg, Junker well knows how successful those have been.

PM's letter to MPs

[url= https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Xghu6ilh2TeWJyc1ZtbFNSUzA ]Document Link[/url]

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Yes, you still have your rights.

Yep, for about another 2 and a bit years.

ALL the British PMs past and present care about the British people

😆 you've outdone yourself. That's my new favourite chewkwism!

Chewkw I was born in 1963 in Newcastle upon Tyne i have lived through multiple governments and resided in the same part of the world for 53 years (including the Miners strike) no incumbent Tory and few labour governments have given a **** about poor people.
If you are cheering for the elite crack on.
If you are cheering for the poor have a think.

GrahamS - Member

Ex-PM Cameron got bullied by EU bureaucrats yet took all the beating silently..

I seem to remember reading a piece summarising the decisions made in the EU parliament which showed the UK were on the winning side in the vast majority of votes.

Yes, ex-PM Cameron was totally manipulated by the media and the EU bureaucrats, by the time he realised the situation he was on his way out. Yes, he got fed false information.

I would look it up, but you seem to be pointedly ignoring replies that contain too many facts, so I can't be bothered

Oh and Chewkw you may find that doing enough to survive just ain't good enough....