Zokes - there is another view that says the very people who most heavily voted for Brexit are the same that will bear the brunt on the economic fall out.

Oh I agree, but an awful lot of them didn't really vote against the EU, they saw it as about the only way they could bite back at the establishment that has screwed them for decades. They also got to do ham face over for extra bonus points.

So, we can sneer at them and wag our fingers saying "serves you right", we can simply pretend their need for welfare doesn't exist and draw a fictitious barrier between considering the impact of 30+ years for free market neoliberalism on them and the perhaps flawed reasoning this gave for many of them voting leave, or... we could actually try to reconcile with them. Put policies in place that help rather than hinder them. And, perhaps, things might just get better for everyone.

Most people who I know who voted Brexit now wish they hadn't. Their reasoning for their change of heart: recognition that they were lied to by Farage and Boris et al., and also some belated developed understanding that the EU is not the root of all the problems they face.

I accept I'm in a fairly small bubble, but being from Bolton, I reckon I know a pretty good representation of the Labour/UKIP Brexit voters. I can't speak for many Tories, but I think as THM shows, they're quite capable of looking after themselves, often to the detriment of everyone else.

Keep writing your BS about my political allegiances and whether I care about others. If it makes you feel happy then that is a small sacrifice. No wonder you talks so much about looking in the mirror. You never stop clearly.

Quite some leaps of illogic there. Protecting UK nationals overseas not automatically require screwing over EU nationals or their UK family members here.

Keep writing your BS about my political allegiances and whether I care about others.

It's not BS, it's there for all to see in almost every post you make.

How many employee visas have you sorted out in the past month?

Keep it going though because you just look foolish. And it's funny to read your sad abuse.

Zokes - live in York, work in Castleford (also London, Newcastle, Glasgow, Salt Lake and Omaha amongst others). Fairly wide range of political views encountered.

teamhurtmore - Member

Fundamentally countries are bad for people - in some respects

Not sure about that.

You know neither am I really, but they do get in the way in occasion. FoM should be so normal it just doesn’t get talked about.

How many employee visas have you sorted out in the past month?

None. But as with last time you raised that particular non sequitur, you don't need a visa (or to meet the skill levels one may require) to travel and work within the EU. After Brexit, you probably will. Are you getting this yet?

Keep it going though because you just look foolish

Everyone thinks you are a Tory on here but you
Still I dont blame you it so awful no one wants to actually admit it publicly 😉

How many employee visas have you sorted out in the past month?

And it's funny to read your sad abuse.

Oh it's not abuse, just simple observation. Given you appear to be about to cry to mummy about bullying again, it seems the cap fits for you rather well.

None.

Exactly so STFU.

I am not worried, your shite washes over me. It's the others that you bullied off that I care about.

So where are these people coming from and what connection does your self-appointed Good Samaritan status have with Brexit?

It's the others that you bullied off that I care about.

THE MOAT IN THINE EYE DEAR BOY THE MOAT

The Mr Spock act is looking a bit threadbare lately 🙂

I am not worried, your shite washes over me. It's the others that you bullied off that I care about.

Interesting stealth edit. Seems like you're about to go all Fred on us.

By the way, can you link to the posts that stated I'm personally responsible for bullying someone on this forum?

A premier subscription is all it’ll cost any of you for some compassion.

^^ 😆

i can link to the one where the poster says he is leaving because of THM if he want to ignire it again and not comment and then moan at others for bullying via his fake news*

* another way to discuss someone whose post is not accurate.

A premier subscription is all it’ll cost any of you for some compassion.

Roflcopters!!!!

If we can believe anything Jamby says, he actually gifted THM's to him...

JUnkyard
"bully mode on"

Mote not moat

"bully mode off"

Its a brave man[ with a lot of time on their hands] who becomes my typo correcter 😉

😆

So this business about May wanting the leave date enshrined in law? Does anyone else thing horses and carts?

Would anyone trust may & her cabinet to deliver a pizza let alone brexit?

she could say we leave a week on Friday & one of her clowns would manage to screw it up b4 then
may as well have written it in her own faeces in the cell the 1922 comittee keep her in when shes not allowed out

I think thats part of the reason why shes trying to set it in stone, no one in the country trusts her to do anything she says

Also she has to keep the swivel-eyed happy as she obeys Barniers demands for €€€€€ , theyre gonna be right grumpy about it

Well crunch time is almost upon us. 2 week deadline to solve the 3 key issues. Unless its done in the next two weeks we crash out with no deal and no transition or we beg them to take us back.

😀

Well crunch time is almost upon us. 2 week deadline to solve the 3 key issues. Unless its done in the next two weeks we crash out with no deal and no transition or we beg them to take us back.

So the Germans really are just going to let the UK go and take up the slack themselves. They hate funding those "lazy" S Europeans with our help, imagine doing it on their own!!

Still great froth

You swigging cappuccino again THM or have you gone full latte? Espresso or black filter are the only true coffees

Irish ones?

We don’t talk about Irish stuff on the Brexit thread. That will only end in tears.

IGM - I order an expresso then this avalanche of froth comes spewing out of my iPad 😉

Only had a chance to see BBC web not actual coverage but the tone of DD and Barnier seems interesting.

true and we have had our tearful tired and emotional outburst for today

expresso

Here I am, trying not to throw in corrections and contributions, worrying that my comments might be felt by THM as being part of some imagined 'bullying' if I do, and he goes and drops the 'expresso' bomb in a thread about the UK's relationship with the rest of Europe.

Edit - sorry guys you’ve lost me

Is there some coffee-ist thing about espresso and expresso?

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/10/babble-brexit-progress-dave-ooze-defeat-barnier ]https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/10/babble-brexit-progress-dave-ooze-defeat-barnier[/url]

Leaves me in a quandary as to which smiley to use:

😆

Or

🙁

When does farce become tragedy, again?

[b]= :87)[/b]

[ that was for THM ]

Help me out, the humour is too subtle and it’s been a long week

Don't ask an Italian.

Definitely expresso.

Assuming this is what we're talking about?

"I want everything".

Maybe I'm one of the turkeys voting for Christmas but at this stage I'd happily see Britain leave the EU without a deal but with the caveat that we don't pay them a single penny in a 'divorce' bill...stuff 'em.

They will have to trade with us under WTO rules anyway and if anyone believes nonsense like flights over Europe and the UK will stop following no deal then they're delusional....things like that are as important to them as us, call their bluff....let the negotiating team do the maths and work out whether the UK is better off with a good deal and a massive divorce bill or no deal and withholding any 'divorce' money....if it's the latter then go with that and stuff honoring any agreements....the UK is a net contributor and has been for some time, the EU is downright lying if they say they won't miss our money.

Here is your weekly reminder that the rEU is the only big player supporting our proposals for joining the WTO after we leave the EU. All the other big countries and blocks have already said they are not happy about the terms, schedules and quotas we have requested. Something to consider before buying into the "we don't have to play nice with our partners because we can rely on WTO rules" nonsense.

espresso meaning forced not expresso meaning quick!

FFS chaps

Is there some coffee-ist thing about espresso and expresso?

This has made me literally vomit in outrage

deviant - without a deal flights from UK to Europe would be illegal. so they would stop. Same with transport of radionuclides so advanced medical imaging would soon be under pressure.

these things are not scare stories / bargaining points. there are laws about this sort of thing.

Dont be bringing facts into this that is practically cheating when dealing with a Brexiter...I wish i was just taking the piss with that but its largely true IME.

.let the negotiating team do the maths and work out whether the UK is better off with a good deal and a massive divorce bill or no deal and withholding any 'divorce' money.

They have, that's why they will pay the bill

No deal is still loose-loose but simple maths tells u we loose more than the EU, they are a bigger slice of our income , than we are of there's.

It's why THM keeps repeating that the government doth protest too much & they'll just roll over in the end.

The bus of lies never mentioned the bit where it would be a decade or so before we'd have spare cash for the NHS or anything else did it?

May cannot roll over on the money offered or ECJ adjudication or else she will be deposed. 80 rabid brexiteer tories have signed a letter to the 1922 committee that would mean a new contest for tory party leadership. they are holding this threat over her head in case of "backsliding"

It's why THM keeps repeating that the government doth protest too much & they'll just roll over in the end.

Not quite what I am saying, but....

I actually want them to play v hard ball at this stage. Like all bullies ^ they don’t like being stood up to. The Europeans need our cash. We know that, they know that. So it’s not such a one way trade

Junket would choke on his claret if we actually said ok guys, enoughs enough. If you don’t want to negotiate properly, the we are going to walk away.

That’s a crap outcome but they need to think we might just be stupid enough to do it. Otherwise it’s like Corbyn and the red button - pointless

Watching Davis making a prat of himself just resonates so well down the ages.

Puts me in kind of this total cluster****. Different era, same bullshit.

THM, so we walk away, no cancer therapy, no planes, etc....

Do you really think that the UK government are really that insane????

Do you really think that the UK government are really that insane????

I wouldn't necessarily want to test that theory as the Tories are unable and unwilling to get to grips with the swivel-eyed loons and risk splitting their shit shower of a party or losing MPs to the UKIP/NSADP/Broederbond or whatever they are marketing themselves as these days.

The temptation to be assuaged by what should be accepted norms of sanity is dangerous.

From what I can see there are only two polar/binary outcomes likely at the moment.

Brexit gets kicked into the long grass / ignored.

Cliff edge Brexit.

Given the last 18 months I wouldn't bet against the Tories taking the option to scuttle the ship and kill all the passengers rather than lose face by admitting this whole thing is a colossal mistake. Undertaken for the wrong reasons, voted for with the wrong motivations and implemented by tossers.

Tries once again to get some more realistic WTO talk going…

https://tradebetablog.wordpress.com/2017/11/08/uk-wto-leadership/amp/

We have to let the EU think so, otherwise what’s the point. They are screwing about playing three card poker, so we need to clll their bluff.

As I said otherwise it’s like having old jezza in charge of the red button - pointless

They are screwing about playing three card poker, so we need to clll their bluff.

We dealt the cards.

"this whole thing is a colossal mistake. Undertaken for the wrong reasons, voted for with the wrong motivations and implemented by tossers." The perfect Brexit analysis.

kimbers - Member

No deal is still loose-loose

Instaban!!! 🙂

We dealt the cards.

Even better - we know where the 2 clubs is

And all the knaves.

Kelvin - unfortunately the remainers here understand the WTO option is nothing like as easy or good as the leavers want to believe. The leavers are sticking their fingers in their ears going "lalalalalala"

we need to clll their bluff.

What makes you think they will capitualte and give in to our demands ? What exactly have you seen in their behaviour that makes you think they are going to "fold" to our demands ? It will be ike Greece here take this or piss off. we all know this.
That is just silly even by the standards you set on here.

Its criteria we either hit them or we dont that is it there is no negotiation at this point NONE.

True captain 😉

it's not like a game of poker, unless there's a variant I'm not aware of where your opponent knows exactly what's in your hand and yet you're still supposed to make believe that going all in is some sort of strategy.

They've done the same assessments as we have (you know, the ones we daren't release to our own parliament select committee) and know we have sod all in our hand.

But yep, load the chips up, Dave.

glitchy doubler

The key point is the EU are not bluffing. This is something the leavers don't want to understand. the integrity of the EU is the single most important thing to them. they will do nothing to jeopardise that and any deviation from the 3 key conditions would do so.

these 3 things are the hardest for the UK to compromise on thus it makes perfect sense to the EU to make them essential first steps. That and there is no solution to NI or citizens rights that will be acceptable to both sides.

Its also not bluffing when you hold the strongest hand and know you hold the strongest hand.

The saddest parts are that this is going exactly as I and many other remainers said it would and the damage is already being done to the UK economy

well said Jonv

cliff edge leaving will also leave 1 million uk citizens in the EU without any medical cover - and for many of them insurance will be impossible to get / afford

these 3 things are the hardest for the UK to compromise on thus it makes perfect sense to the EU to make them essential first steps.-

Indeed so they don’t have to negotiate. You are starting to get this now. Took some time but we are getting there

Easy to miss one very large item on the agenda - our cash!! Forget the rest. That is the EUs Achilles heel - always has been

Is it just me that thinks £40-50bn isn’t actually that big a number in governmental terms?

nearly 3 years worth of empty bus promises.

not compared to what we lose with WTO /no deal/angry EU people on our borders and NI being screwed.

theotherjonv - Member
nearly 3 years worth of empty bus promises

>6 years of the actual figure!

But even in a no deal would we still end up paying in for collaborative projects, science, policing, etc

Part of the reason people like me voted to leave is so we don't have to deal with these euro freaks and their colossal cash swallowing project of an ever more integrated Europe...factor in the dictatorial stance on negotiations and the lovely democratic way the Spanish handled the Catalan crisis (prosecutions for sedition looming FFS) and I'm more than happy to get far far away from these loonies...i appreciate they may have the same view/sentiment towards me.

Easy to miss one very large item on the agenda - our cash!! Forget the rest. That is the EUs Achilles heel - always has been

And it's also our Achilles heel. We stand to lose far more than that in the years following a no-deal Brexit.

The one correct theme you've kept going, THM, is the "there is no such thing as a good Brexit" line.

Why not just call the ****er off, then?

deviant - Member
Part of the reason people like me voted to leave is so we don't have to deal with these euro freaks and their colossal cash swallowing project of an ever more integrated Europe...factor in the dictatorial stance on negotiations and the lovely democratic way the Spanish handled the Catalan crisis (prosecutions for sedition looming FFS) and I'm more than happy to get far far away from these loonies...i appreciate they may have the same view/sentiment towards me.

POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST

Laudable honesty. At what cost are you prepared to do this?

Well we have already spent / allocated a billion pounds for this plus 8000 more bureaucrats. and thats just the preparation for leaving.

Deviant - and you prefr to be impoverished with a badly damaged nhs, reduced environmental protection, reduced worker protection, lower food standards etc etc.

A billion pounds has already been spent / allocated on this just on the preparation for leaving

It would have been a lot easier if the government had just granted a national 'Racism is OK Day' to let the swivel-eyes get it all off their chests every twelve months. Of course they would then moan when they got told to **** off by the local tandoori, but then because we 'won the war' the world owes us a living. 🙄

Why not just call the ****er off, then?

Hmmmm 😉

Interesting reading on the WTO options Kelvin