[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

It will happen TJ. Greece is bust and Germans aren't going to get back their €100bn and the French their €75bn etc etc. Merkel and Hollande wanted to push it beyond their elections. Obama went to Greece on his last road trip to try and get some agreement on "debt relief", no doubt in my mind he's worried Trump will block an IMF rescue and/or impose very harsh terms and/or insist it's entirely the EU's problem

The court will rule on the law. It may be they think parliament needs to be consulted, it may be they think an Act is needed.

Today's vote would mean nothing in the latter event.

Of course it does now mean, should the government try to rely on this vote, that parliament is free to propose a motion and expect to to be respected at any time during the process. Parliament may not feel that what May puts in front of them is a sufficient plan and may respond accordingly.

Parliament has approved the A50 timetable which means they have approved invoking A50. That's the argument and consistent with remark (note not judgement) by one of the Supreme court judges.

😯 I don't think that's how it works.

Suddenly, Greece was shut out from borrowing in the financial markets. By the spring of 2010, it was veering toward bankruptcy, which threatened to set off a new financial crisis.

The bailout money mainly goes toward paying off Greece’s international loans, rather than making its way into the economy. And the government still has a staggering debt load that it cannot begin to pay down unless a recovery takes hold.

More importantly.... is this going to have any effect on cheese?

It's just common sense innit who are going to give free money to Greece forever? Germany?

Maybe. Historically the Greeks were made to accept Germany defaulting on debts after the war, so it's sort of payback this century.

Greece pegged itself to the Euro at far too high a rate, and their public finances where not ready to join really. The rules were fudged to let them join, again, because of history, and politics, it was not a wise/sane move financially at all. If they are to be kept in, lots more fudging and pain to come. This, and many other aspects, of the Euro project are flawed… but the situation before the Euro was also a mess for the southern countries. The Euro can, and I'd argue is being, made to work, but the flaws and mistakes are very real, no point anyone arguing otherwise. Imperfect, but will probably hold together and move on… it has at least as much chance as the Sterling area of holding together anyway.

Jamba - I didn't edit anything

binners - Member
More importantly.... is this going to have any effect on cheese?

"Not going to lie ... it's hard at the moment ..." (Roger the alien in American Dad) the price of imported Greek Yogurt might increase. 😆
Waitrose actually sells imported Greek Yogurt so well done to them. 😯

kelvin - Member
Maybe. Historically the Greeks were made to accept Germany defaulting on debts after the war, so it's sort of payback this century.

Yaa ... the question is how much for how long before the German pull the plug, bear in mind we are talking about German machine vs emotional Greeks.

@tjagain, He's talking about [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/503#post-8136821 ]this one[/url] being edited into [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/eu-referendum-are-you-in-or-out/page/503#post-8136839 ]this one.[/url] I do hope he's not someone important in a bank or has a job where attention to detail is paramount. 😯

The German machine is doing nicely out of the Euro though, so not just altruistic for them to make it work.

Some interesting figures from a new analysis on who voted for Leave and Remain:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/heres-who-voted-for-brexit-and-who-didnt

Perhaps the most confusing stat is that 2% of self-identifying UKIP voters voted to Remain 😯

Thoughts on what the EU will do next about air quality in cities by the way…? I'm looking forward to UK papers reporting on the evil EU moving in to try and push the UK government to take measures to clean things up… shall we play guess the headlines?

Perhaps the most confusing stat is that 2% of self-identifying UKIP voters voted to Remain

Many older voters asked their kids, and voted how they wanted, knowing that by the time an exit is fully played out it'll be for the younger generations to live with, not them. Not all UKIP voters are selfish.

Most interesting stats for me are for Labour voters… with the majority voting remain… and a leadership that was ambivalent before the vote, and supporting of the government's march towards the door since. Some Labour MPs must be pulling their hair out.

the one that interests me on voting patterns is around 1/3 of SNP voters voted out of Europe

The magnificent Rees-Mogg owning the nay-sayers:

https://mobile.twitter.com/BrexitCentral/status/806571270099697664/video/1

"Who was it supposed to advise…?"

Is he finally admitting it is advisory? Perhaps he's got around to reading the referendum act he voted for.

Is he a real person? lol

No, he's a womble, one that polishes &^cks.

Better now Ninfan

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Many older voters asked their kids, and voted how they wanted, knowing that by the time an exit is fully played out it'll be for the younger generations to live with, not them. Not all UKIP voters are selfish.

Yeah could be that I suppose, though maybe if they were so altruistically inclined, they should have had that chat before they started voting for UKIP and not waited till the UKIP voting had already forced the referendum.

Rees - Mogg is one of the most lacking in sense tories there is. Took his nanny with him door to door campaigning. He does not live in the real world. a fud.

So taking a read of the reports, despite Jamby now saying the path is clear etc. the government will be expected to publish a plan and allow the OBR to analyse the impacts before it can start, odds are that the SC will confirm that Parliament needs to vote to trigger A50 explicitly and that will be done after the plan is put forward. So still in the same position but when it comes to the MP's voting then it will be done with the intention of the Government (Well TM and the 3) being made clear. Hardly sounds like full steam ahead ignore the icebergs at least.

I hear the OED are currently still waiting for number 10 to add some more words to the Brexit Definition.

Graham, yes just saw that. Here is Huffington Post's take and the full report.

IMO the key thing about education is that lower qualified people are in the types of jobs (or no job) most impacted by uncontrolled immigration.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/why-did-people-vote-for-brexit_uk_5847d0dbe4b0bba967c1807c?utm_hp_ref=uk&utm_hp_ref=uk

http://www.natcen.ac.uk/our-research/research/understanding-the-leave-vote/

Jamba - I didn't edit anything

TJ correct as @captain points out there where two posts, you had posted another so when mine was posted that appeared above mine where I had expected mine to appear below your first one which is when I hit repy. Hence the confusion.

@Nipper and @mike, certainly not cut and dried but a positive step forward from Brexit standpoint. I don't see anything in a Brexit "negotiation" document the OBR could comment on. Frankly it's just going to say we want x, y and z .. we may pay something for that to be agreed or we may not ... and our fallback is hard Brexit and WTO tariffs. The repeal bill will enshrine all existing EU legislation and employment rights. Job done.

if only it was so simple .

Is he finally admitting it is advisory? Perhaps he's got around to reading the referendum act he voted for.

Eveyone said the Referendum was advisory. The Government has been so advised and is now cracking on with it 8)

Top work by the Right Honourable Gentleman btw

Frankly it's just going to say we want x, y and z .. we may pay something for that to be agreed or we may not ... and our fallback is hard Brexit and WTO tariffs.

The repeal bill will enshrine all existing EU legislation and employment rights. Job done.

Summary page, new voters, committed voters, broad church of voters, certainty of outcome ... all did it for Leave

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The great repeal bill is going to be virtually impossible as EU regulations are included and intrinsic to lots of other bit of legislation.

Hundreds and hundreds of laws, regulations and rule are going to havee to be included in this.

Did anyone else notice Davies asking the CBI what bits of red tape they want abolished? Say goodbye to your workers protection, minimum holidays etc.

an image so I can't quote but..
"The three main groups; affluent Euroskeptics, older working class and a smaller group of economically disadvantaged, anti immigration voters"

Yep thats them. Think those are the ones we all identified on about pages 1 or 2

😆

why dont you mention immigration Jambalaya . you missed it ? it is on the second line !

nothing new in that summary .

My nan voted out, because she has the daily mail on subscription. I cant disown her for being gullible.

It's a right mess tbh, any plan will contain nothing of substance as it would disadvantage the UK's bargaining position.

The lack of said substantial plan could spook parliament into non agreement, especially without guaranteed market membership which comes with the FOM caveat, essentially a veto, or at least a re think.

It's essentially catch 22.

It's a fine mess. A mighty fine mess. A mess of such magnitude that the British can be proud of for years to come, a mess you can tell your grandchildren about.

And all because one person, David Cameron, was scared he'd lose a few votes to UKIP.. .it would be funny if it was a TV show, but it's real life.

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[img] [/img]

Been out so only briefly reviewd the € bllx

Of course its flawed and by design it has to fail - the only question is when. But this tells you one thing - EU is about compromise and kicking cans down the road - which is totally inconsistent with any 'absolute' arguements.

You have to be amused at so-called LWers who are happy with a situation which cases massive wage deflation for workers and grotesque levels of unemployment among the young - socialist solidarity for you! With friends like that...

Next thing you know English folk will be going into these countries buying up more than one property while locals are left homeless on the streets....

especially without guaranteed market membership

@matty we are 100% NOT going to be in THE single market. We are going to have some sort of trade deal possibly the WTO one which in my view is the preferable and pragmatic option.

Well done on finding the img button, still doesn't address the points though does it, and we now seem to be skipping over the challenge to the view that last nights vote has somehow green lighted whatever TM wants to do. I'll assume that ignoring it means you agree with us.

He does not live in the real world.

Is he a holgram? He seemed very real as an old client of mine many moons ago?

so basically the people who have the most to loose have shot themselves , not only in the foot , but straight between their eyes .

no wonder IDS is getting so exited and angry about Brexit, it is a dream come true . he is going to screw the poor and disadvantaged , and they voted for it !

TMH the Casey report is interesting reading and explains why the UK isn't the country you thought it was, we don't see much of what it speaks about in leafy Surrey. Ditto the Kirby Swales one .. graph of signifcantly increasing eurosceptism over last 20 years, a few dips but trend is clear

@cchris no those people have voted to reflect that the EU has done nothing positive for them (negative in fact) and they want to give Plan B a go.

but we all know that it is Westminster which has done nothing for them , not the EU . and it is only going to get worse .

I need no reminding about the state of the country - its very depressing indeed thanks!

If you're talking about the currency, you'll have to explain the fatal flaw to this stupid bystander, as I see no fatal flaw.

Is a great line. Imagine standing in any S European city and arguing this!!!

@mike I don't need the button I can type [ img ] [ /img ] plus I thought STWers might find them interesting and possibly wouldn't download and read the whole report

so basically the people who have the most to loose have shot themselves , not only in the foot , but straight between their eyes .

They were warned

@cchris no those people have voted to reflect that the EU has done nothing positive for them (negative in fact) and they want to give Plan B a go.

They have been let down by successive UK governments the main reason Remain had such a hard time is that those leading it would have had to confess that it was them who had caused most of the UK's problems not the EU.

Anyway Parliament to Vote and Debate the Brexit plan BEFORE declaring A50, lets see what they manage to propose for that, I hope there is some backbone and anything without sufficient detail is rejected and that the contradictions are highlighted. Putting the Brexit lot and their plan in front of a select committee would be a start. It's how democracy in the UK works.

and to add

jambalaya - Member
@mike I don't need the button I can type [ img ] [ /img ] plus I thought STWers might find them interesting and possibly wouldn't download and read the whole report

[b] and we now seem to be skipping over the challenge to the view that last nights vote has somehow green lighted whatever TM wants to do. I'll assume that ignoring it means you agree with us.[/b]