B n D, France wants reform (or the politicians most likely to be the next president do), the Italians, Spanish... the EU evolves, nothing ever stays still. France is fed up with fiscal dumping by Ireland and Luxembourg (and the UK if it remains). The UE parliament being overridden by the commission and the level of access lobby groups have is contested by parties throughout Europe. EU policies are always a compromise. The UK will no longer have a say in that compromise if Brexit goes ahead.
People are comparing a future UK to Norway, and what if it were similar to Russia, Turkey or Morocco?
[url= http://uk.businessinsider.com/david-davis-adviser-raoul-ruparel-brexit-customs-union-gdp-2016-10 ]http://uk.businessinsider.com/david-davis-adviser-raoul-ruparel-brexit-customs-union-gdp-2016-10[/url]
not sure whether this has been posted, but seriously, WTF, we are going to trash the economy and......
Are you going to do the Paddy Ashdown version of eating your hat if it turns out as positive?
Please detail how this will happen...
(Don't forget to CC the Gov in, as they don't seem to have a ****ing clue..)
Don't see what the're worried about - jamba says they'll be fine!
It'll be great when we do get the power back and can start manufacturing just like what we done before. We can set our own safety standards then re-manufacture everything in order to sell into Europe. Which business brain thought that one? 😆
Add this to sovereign money being spent how we want to and we're starting to look really foolish.
Power to the muppets!
Some good news for France a few minutes ago, I can't resist quoting a song:
"Casse-toi tu pue, et marche à l'ombre"
Hollande has decided not to run again for President in 2017. So we can ignore anything on Brexit he's said to date, in the unlikely event anyone was actually listening to him.
DrJ there is [b]a risk[/b] we could all be killed in a massive meteorite strike. I have many friends and relatives who applied for passports, it wasn't that hard. (Americans, New Zelanders, Indians, Columbian ..)
Captain I don't recall the Leave campaign claiming we'd see a return to mass manufacturing in the UK as a result of Brexit. The only party suggesting that's remotely possible is Labour via their £500bn Investment Bank
"Casse-toi tu pue, et marche à l'ombre"
You made my wife laugh 🙂 After that long list of achievements he went through I thought he was going to suggest he was the oly solution to the troubles of the world.
Captain I don't recall the Leave campaign claiming we'd see a return to mass manufacturing in the UK as a result of Brexit. The only party suggesting that's remotely possible is Labour via their £500bn Investment Bank
Did I say [b][u]mass [/u][/b]manufacturing?
You said "just like we did before" which I took to mean the days of mass manufacturing.
[quote=mrmo ]are we saying money pays for family and student attitude?
No are you saying more money does not provide a better education?
Anyway what he actually said is below.
One in three schools in Manchester and almost 50% in Liverpool were “not good”, and he said the inequality of provision was “feeding into a wider malaise” and a “sense of alienation” that people were feeling in parts of the country.In an earlier interview with the BBC during a visit to Manchester, he said: “The situation is very, very serious. It’s feeding into a sense that the people of Liverpool, Manchester and the north are not being treated fairly – that their children have less of a chance of educational success than people south of the Wash.
“And that’s feeding into a wider malaise that I sense with the Brexit vote, that actually this wasn’t just about leaving Europe, it’s about ‘our needs being neglected, our children are not getting as good a deal as elsewhere’.
“Parents want to see their children doing well; they want to see them going off to university; they want to see them getting a good job. Well, they have less of a chance of that in this city [Manchester], in Liverpool and elsewhere, and that feeds into this sense of discontent in the north and in the Midlands.”
You said "just like we did before" which [b]I took to mean[/b] the days of mass manufacturing.
Assumption being the mother of all something or other. I can see how you'd misinterpret facts. 😀
Still, it's a funny one isn't it that we will be able to manufacture our own goods, to our own standards (even if it means I have to learn to rewire a plug again) and then upgrade the standards to satisfy the EU. That's really taking back control, isn't it? Instead of being at the organisers' table, we will simply follow their orders.
Why can't we have a proper rolling on the floor laughing my 'arris off emoticon thingy?
Common sense, we may pay something for certain programmes. Perfect example is Erasmus - absolutely worth paying £20m (?) a year for.
Indeed. It pays some of my wages for the next two years.
upgrade the standards to satisfy the EU. That's really taking back control, isn't it? Instead of being at the organisers' table, we will simply follow their orders.
Anyone would think that the EU is the end of the known world, and that the existence of ISO wasn't a 'thing' in manufacturing
DrJ there is a risk we could all be killed in a massive meteorite strike. I have many friends and relatives who applied for passports, it wasn't that hard. (Americans, New Zelanders, Indians, Columbian ..)
Bullshyte. As the article says, the paperwork is massive and the restrictions tight. As things stand, MsJ will not be able to live with me and I suppose I will not be able to live with her. Thanks a lot, Brexshitters, for firing the meteorite towards Earth.
The North is not a single lump of working poor/crap education it has many areas that are probably more affluent than southern areas - York? Harrogate, part of Leeds Durham and Manchester, Jesmond, Tynemouth,Yarm, Cheshire, Corbridge are very very affluent. It's because we have the post industrial towns concentrated here that skews the picture.
Anyone would think that the EU is the end of the known world, and that the existence of ISO wasn't a 'thing' in manufacturing
What sort of "thing" was it? Anyone would think that ISO is the end of the known world.
the existence of ISO wasn't a 'thing' in manufacturing
Hmmm. ISO - great in theory I suppose, but not great in practice. Buying equipment from abroad is much easier when it is to a pan-European standard than a global standard. And yes I am aware that a lot of ISOs, ENs and BSs are absolutely identical - it's just that the equipment somehow isn't.
Even Chinese stuff consumers buy is CE isn't it? So presumably Britain will stick with CE - until CE can only be given to something with a Eurostyle plug of course.
He knows that and why he said wasThe North is not a single lump of working poor/crap education
the inequality of provision .....their children have less of a chance of educational success than people south of the Wash.Parents want to see their children doing well; they want to see them going off to university; they want to see them getting a good job. Well, they have less of a chance of that in this city [Manchester], in Liverpool and elsewhere, and that feeds into this sense of discontent in the north and in the Midlands.”
He said nothing about what you said and you said nothing about what they said.
DrJ maybe in the circumstances they will streamline the process. It's not beyond the will of man or woman is it ? How about a first rapid stage allowing you say 5 years and then the PR later. As an aside PR in Singapore is a rolling 5 period.
The divides in my part of the North are very obvious, the difference in state schools a few miles apart is staggering.
DrJ maybe in the circumstances they will streamline the process. It's not beyond the will of man or woman is it ? How about a first rapid stage allowing you say 5 years and then the PR later.
Maybe they will, maybe they won't - you just don't know what they will decide. Meanwhile people have stress because their lives may be turned upside down. Thanks.
No are you saying more money does not provide a better education?
@junkyard, more money helps, and can help a lot if spent at the right time, but and it is a big but, money doesn't solve attitude. Or at least more money into schools isn't the solution. Too many people i have spoken to have had run ins with parents who aren't interested and have issues with the structure of education.
on page 206 is a graph that i think illustrates my point a little, money helps but lots of money doesn't get the US to the top of the educational outcome tree.
I am sure i am not alone in knowing people when going through school who didn't care, and knowing others who tried and were picked on for doing so?
The divides in my part of the North are very obvious, the difference in state schools a few miles apart is staggering.
This is very true.
However, for our politicians and press to suggest this is caused or compounded by Europe is ludicrous.
It's down to a London south east centric view, over-investment and protectionism.
We had a thread in this recently with regards to the new rail links....
Ya, the news cheer me up a bit. 😆 One down several to go but I just hope Merkel is the next to go ...jambalaya - Member
Hollande has decided not to run again for President in 2017. So we can ignore anything on Brexit he's said to date, in the unlikely event anyone was actually listening to him.
What the Home Office should do to help with the backlog is computerise a bunch of stuff. You know, get all modern, help speed things up.
They could even give it a catchy name. How about "eBorders"? That sounds good. I'm sure it will be in place in no time, and it will only cost a couple of million.
Nothing to worry about.
[quote=oldmanmtb ]The divides in my part of the North are very obvious, the difference in state schools a few miles apart is staggering.
again not what he said as he did not say all northern schools were crap
On average Northern schools have worse outcomes than southern schools is as simple as it gets. He did not say there were no good northern schools or no regional variation within northern schools
Do you even want to discuss what they said or do you just want to state what you think?
[quote=oldmanmtb ]The divides in my part of the North are very obvious, the difference in state schools a few miles apart is staggering.
again not what he said as he did not say all northern schools were crap
On average Northern schools have worse outcomes than southern schools is as simple as it gets. He did not say there were no good northern schools or no regional variation within northern schools
Do you even want to discuss what they said or do you just want to state what you think?
The north is poorer than the south
I have not said all northerners are poor, there are no rich northern areas nor there are no prosperous northern areas.
Where is the boundary?
[i]Even Chinese stuff consumers buy is CE isn't it? So presumably Britain will stick with CE - until CE can only be given to something with a Eurostyle plug of course. /I]
You pretty much need an CE stamp to sell within the EEA nevermind the EU, so why would you try and produce anything that's not CE marked?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking
IMO adopting a different standard for the sake of it is pretty pointless and will probably just mean selling cheap 5h1t - and no way can we sell stuff cheaper than the Chinese and the like can produce/sell.
IMO adopting a different standard for the sake of it is pretty pointless and will probably just mean selling cheap 5h1t - and no way can we sell stuff cheaper than the Chinese and the like can produce/sell.
But at least it will be OUR cheap shit.
[quote=slowoldman ]Where is the boundary?
what do you mean by boundary
We can do this or we could actually debate the points being raised
your call
The boundary between North and South? I'm guessing it's more of a South-East and everybody else split.
I think what he's saying is that it's not that simple. Geographically I suppose you could draw a line east to west somewhere around where Nottingham is, but land mass is not really relevant in the context of this discussion.
[quote=slowoldman ]The boundary between North and South? I'm guessing it's more of a South-East and everybody else split.
Fien in what way is that relevant to what he said
We either discuss whether there is a divide between the two or we discuss exactly where the boundary between the two lie and then accept their is a divide between the two
Clearly the north south divide is one of those things that we all know really what it means even though we could debate endlessly exactly what it meant.
Reminds me of radio 4 when someone said we should let in more immigrants and the presenter spent 5 minutes arguing about what more meant rather than discuss the actual point raised.
The longer this goes on the more convinced I am that the Tory party is actually a surrealist improvisational comedy troupe sleeper cell activated after the last election. Philip Hammond isn't in on the joke obvs.
The alternative is just too horrifying to contemplate.......
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Looking at the map I'll venture that remain areas have a high proportion of people who are: cosmopolitan, enlightened, educated, tolerant, economically active, homofriendly, in favour of equal rights... .
Perhaps someone from the leave camp would care to do the leave areas, it would be unfair if I did it.
A heatmap based on income would be interesting
A heatmap based on income would be interesting
Probably not. West Wales is the opposite end of the income scale to London, as is, I assume, Scotland.
In fact, it looks pretty random (other than Scotland).
I don't think it's income, Brighton isn't any richer than some other places on the south coast but if you look at my list it ticks every one.
5th - Scotlands GDP per capita is higher than the other UK countries - income I don't know.
b r - Member
[i]Even Chinese stuff consumers buy is CE isn't it? So presumably Britain will stick with CE - until CE can only be given to something with a Eurostyle plug of course. /I]You pretty much need an CE stamp to sell within the EEA nevermind the EU, so why would you try and produce anything that's not CE marked?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking
IMO adopting a different standard for the sake of it is pretty pointless and will probably just mean selling cheap 5h1t - and no way can we sell stuff cheaper than the Chinese and the like can produce/sell.
I agree. The point being that we already have a different standard plug to the rest of Europe. If Europe goes down a "corded electrical goods must have a Euro standard plug permanently attached to get CE marked" route then the UK will have to walk away from CE goods in the UK market - or change plugs in the UK which is unlikely. Then we have to decide what standard we want Chinese manufacturers to use for Britain and Chinese manufacturers have to decide if they can be bothered on low end goods (high end they'll bother).
5th - Scotlands GDP per capita is higher than the other UK countries - income I don't know.
I doubt the same can be said of West Wales.
I think edukator that there is also something about sense of identity. At a very general level.
Areas like Scotland, Liverpool, York or London with a strong sense of identity, from strong political leadership or a common enemy or just because they are who they are and their bloody proud of it voted remain - they weren't worried about losing their identity as we become more integrated (by migration or otherwise) with European peoples.
Those areas that have lost their way a little former mining areas for example voted leave.
Now that's clearly not everything that wad going on, but it ties up with similar emotional content about cosmopolitan versus xenophobic etc.
You're talking +/- a couple of percent. Any conclusions are, at best, the voice in your head.
When the swing was 1.9% nationally that's everything though isn't it?
But yes drawing conclusions is a brave step.
