[Closed] EU Referendum - are you in or out?

Boris wants to keep freedom of movement and Davis wants to pay to access the single market.

That is a bit of a U turn?

No he said we might pay to have single market access, do you ever get anything right?

apologies oh wise one 😉

I was obviously in shock that mr hard brexit was now saying that we are looking to tread softly

Half want in, half want out

Which one reason why constraining negotiations in advance by leave campaign slogans/rhetoric would be mental.

Not sure you can argue that's emphatic at all, but even if you do all it means is we have to 'leave'. Not leave with any specific terms.

As mentioned before people voted Leave for various reasons. Not everyone will be happy with the end result.
But paying for access to single market is not what the Leave wanted.
What is going to happen to farmers subsidies, fishermen, science projects. All have been promised cash. And no need to mention a new hospital built every week!
it looks like the new plan is to Buy the cake, and pay an extra 12% for service.

David Daves is wrong we shoukd pay zero, I haven't seen the whole quote. Ditto Boris said something at a meeting of ambassadors - to be honest if Cameron had been able to get an agreement of no welfare for 5 years I think the vote would have been Remain. Freedom of immigration doesn't mean all eu citizens have to be treated as Brits. EU weren't prepared to offer that to us. As the Germans have a different system they can apply restrictions to deal with £750m they pay in unemployment benefit to EU citizens (Bulagrians and Romanians are biggest claimants)

@mike £7.7bn net is the estimate from this group

http://www.civitas.org.uk/reports_articles/potential-post-brexit-tariff-costs-for-eu-uk-trade/

So if its the norway option, dont those guys pay more per capita than we do already?

who cares, we've got our country back, etc.

So if its the norway option, dont those guys pay more per capita than we do already?

they also have more migration as a percentage of population.

who cares, we've got our... oh.

So.... let me get this right..... are we all getting the gold-plated unicorns we were promised, or not?

You might have to settle for Turkeys.

Well farage is hanging out in a gold plated skyscraper

So.... let me get this right..... are we all getting the gold-plated unicorns we were promised, or not?

That's the rules for unicorns.

The benefits issue was always easy to fix simply create a law that states you must be resident for 5 years before you or your spouse/children can claim any in work benefits including tax credits. Easier than Brexit

many brexiters voted to reduce the numbers of immigrants coming here

I'd suggest that a great many were far more bothered about immigrants coming here and getting handed benefits & housing off the bat than were actually really bothered about immigrants 'coming here'

But paying for access to single market is not what the Leave wanted.

It's not what some on leave wanted (including all the high profile campaigners who clearly stated we would leave the single market).

I know a few people (and there are plenty others on discussion forums) who are pushing for exactly that. They wanted out of the EU but to stay in the single market. Free trade without free movement of people.

Freedom of immigration doesn't mean all eu citizens have to be treated as Brits.

So yes, all EU citizens have to be treated as brits. But that isn't how it started.

TFEU Article 18:

Within the scope of application of the Treaties, and without prejudice to any special provisions contained therein, any discrimination on grounds of nationality shall be prohibited

many brexiters voted to reduce the numbers of immigrants coming here

I'd suggest that a great many were far more bothered about immigrants coming here and getting handed benefits & housing off the bat

It's futile working out what any group of people 'want', we just don't know for sure and they probably all had different desires anyway.

What we do know is there was a narrow margin for the undefined term 'leave' in a non-legally-binding vote. That gives a vast margin for interpretation and doesn't specifically require anything to change at all.

Nobody in this thread has come up with any sane logic to close down any option of any kind.

Just listened to the Parliamentary question/answer Davies gave. Common sense, we may pay something for certain programmes. Perfect example is Erasmus - absolutely worth paying £20m (?) a year for.

I'd suggest that a great many were far more bothered about immigrants coming here and getting handed benefits & housing off the bat than were actually really bothered about immigrants 'coming here'

Does this really actually happen?

I'm not talking about refugees now - EU migrants.

What's an extra 20 million, when brexit will only be costing us a few billion a year, eh?

Does this really actually happen?

I'm not talking about refugees now - EU migrants.

IIRC, the outcome of this episode was that he got a rented house paid for by housing benefit

you clearly cant blame the kids, and they shouldn't suffer, but you sure as hell can blame the system.

Does this really actually happen?

If you live in the south and you've got a young family and both of you are working minimum wage in Costa you'll be getting whatever in work benefits are available and family allowance to get by. We have some Polish friends in exactly that situation.

you sure as hell can blame the system.

Which has changed a fair bit now they're reducing in work benefits. We were subsidizing jobs with in work benefits, and then importing people from abroad to do them which is a bit mad.

Unintended consequences!

Sterling is still up 1% at $1.2631 following comments by Brexit Secretary David Davis that the UK would consider making payments to the EU after it leaves the EU to secure the best possible access to the single market.

I'd suggest that a great many were far more bothered about immigrants coming here and getting handed benefits & housing off the bat than were actually really bothered about immigrants 'coming here'

Kind of sums it up doesn't it. 😯

molgrips - Member

Does this really actually happen?

I'm not talking about refugees now - EU migrants.

Since when did what actually happens influence the majority of votes?

[i]The benefits issue was always easy to fix simply create a law that states you must be resident for 5 years before you or your spouse/children can claim any in work benefits including tax credits. Easier than Brexit [/I]

Seems unfair that an immigrant can't get benefits unless they've lived here and paid tax/NI for 5 years, yet Brits can get those same benefits without paying a single penny of tax/NI?

Brexit good news for Ireland

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-ireland-idUKKBN13Q4JU?il=0

He said the bank has seen a material increase in queries from UK-authorised entities, several of which have moved into the pre-application or application phase, meaning the Irish financial sector was set to grow, quite possibly significantly.

He said the applications are likely to continue in the coming months as firms prepare for the possibility of a loss of passporting rights into the EU, a system that lets them operate across the bloc but under the supervision of just one regulator.

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Roux, who is also a deputy governor at the bank, said its workforce planning for next year reflected the additional resources needed to deal with applications and that is has also built in contingency should the need arise.

Screw you EU and all you represent!! We'll take back power and tell you what's what!! We'll spend the money that you're taking from and spend it on something useful like entry to the single market!
That'll teach you good and proper.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38168942 ]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38168942[/url]
Brexshitters really are a disorganised bunch of muppets who are now making it even more difficult for the supporters to support.

Screw you EU and all you represent!! We'll take back power and tell you what's what!! We'll spend the money that you're taking from and spend it on something useful like entry to the single market!
That'll teach you good and proper.

So let me get this straight, the current brexit plan is to leave, then buy back into the single market, and BoJo is backing free movement.

[img] [/img]

our local mp just been on r4 suggesting the EU will be paying us to trade with them, going to be a lot of very unhappy tory back benchers if they don't get their hard brexit.

our local mp just been on r4

So let me get this straight, the current brexit plan is to leave, then buy back into the single market, and BoJo is backing free movement.

@Klunk I have made that point that the EU should pay us based on trade imbalance. Now it will never happen of course but it's certainly an argument as to why free trade should cost zero.

@tmh etc all, I have said many times the EU could have avoided this mess if it had been willing to listen and reform. However it is not, it has a superlative arrogance and a blinkered view which says the only way forward is their way.

Ireland is an obvious choice for an EU booking office and they have a track record for offering tax incentives as they did in the old docks years ago. Rent an office, transfer over a few sales people, lawyers and book transactions through Dublin. Speak English and it's a short flight from London. Probably cheaper doing that than signing a fronting/white-label agreement with an EU bank/insurer

I don't think the EU (or any other member states) could have done anything at all to avoid "this mess" (which implies you are now not so happy with the Brexit vote outcome). It's an entirely British "mess" driven by a few high profile populists with British media complicity. You can't blame the EU for Britain deciding to leave rather than work for reform from within.

The Ofsted chief executive today said that the Brexit vote was partly explained by a greater North south divide, lack of investment up north etc...

You can't blame the EU for Britain deciding to leave rather than work for reform from within.

They will still be blaming the Eu in 2025 for anythign they dont like as it will always be there fault we did this and their fault 27 countries would not do what we alone wanted

So let me get this straight, the current brexit plan is to leave, then buy back into the single market, and BoJo is backing free movement.

Ten deep breaths....

@tmh etc all, I have said many times the EU could have avoided this mess if it had been willing to listen and reform. However it is not, it has a superlative arrogance and a blinkered view which says the only way forward is their way

...another ten....exhale

The wider arrogance reflected here is breathtaking (excuse me Jambas, this is a wider point not a personal one!). The UK has been a PITA for Europe for a long time. Despite this we have been able to have an extraordinary flexible relationship that has been massively skewed in our favour in terms of trade and investment. Not least, because we avoided the folly of the € and all that implies. Away from us, the EU has to decide what do do about the € but that does not affect us. The extraordinary relationship that we had was re-enforced by the agreement that CMD reached - ignoring the hyperbole pre/during/post and sticking to the facts - which was (while not perfect) about as good as it gets. Maximise the benefits, minimise the losses.

Instead we now have Brexshit Bollocks that will result in a watered down and materially worse version of what we had already, strained relationships, and two years plus of unnecessary uncertainty. (We may even have conflict - but leave that aside for the moment). For this, the leading Brexhsiteers should never be forgotten especially as their naked narcissism turned out to be so unappealing.

Ten more deep breaths and relax (and back to presentation)

You can't blame the EU for Britain deciding to leave rather than work for reform from within.

Asked about the implications of a Leave victory, Mr Juncker said: “The British policymakers and British voters have to know that there will be not be any kind of renegotiation,” he said.

“We have concluded a deal with the Prime Minister, he got the maximum he could receive, we gave the maximum we could give. So there will be no kind of renegotiation, nor on the agreement we found in February, nor as far as any kind of treaty negotiations are concerned.”

Juncker on the 22nd June

Please explain how further reform was on the table and/or possible?

I'm waiting for the Bexshitter spin to make this a pre-planned and positive aspect.

"Of course, this will NEVER happen, but if it did then it will be acceptable because it is a SOVEREIGN government spending it"

🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄

Instead we now have Brexshit Bollocks that will result in a watered down and materially worse version of what we had already, strained relationships, and two years plus of unnecessary uncertainty. (We may even have conflict - but leave that aside for the moment). For this, the leading Brexhsiteers should never be forgotten especially as their naked narcissism turned out to be so unappealing.

Are you going to do the Paddy Ashdown version of eating your hat if it turns out as positive?

(We may even have conflict - but leave that aside for the moment)

Or is this just more hyperbole?

The Ofsted chief executive today said that the Brexit vote was partly explained by a greater North south divide, lack of investment up north etc...

I heard this and whilst it might be in part true, I am inclined to say b****cks, are we saying money pays for family and student attitude?

Money gets you decent teachers but many of the teachers i know don't complain about money but about support.

"Of course, this will NEVER happen, but if it did then it will be acceptable because it is a SOVEREIGN government spending it"